The AFL wants 22 teams. Name your next four.

Remove this Banner Ad

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
7,557
15,347
Tigris River
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Baghdad Bombers
Where does this huge push for a third Perth side come from? It's just been posted above why SA wouldn't work having a third side and aside from population it wouldn't be any different at all to WA having a third side either.

After Tasmania, and much to the dismay of many, the AFL's only expansion concerns should be north of the Barrassi Line.
 

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
7,557
15,347
Tigris River
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Baghdad Bombers
Good shout- if Tassie gets its own team (hopefully soon) then Hawks could play a few games in Canberra to replace the Launceston games.

I reckon that would be a good litmus test to see if CBR gets consistent good crowds.

Hawks v Giants got 11.7K in the snow. Otherwise between 2012 and 2019 the average crowd each year at Manuka ranges between 8.2K - 12.8K. Noting the capacity is 16K. Hopefully the crowds would increase if Hawks/Saints played other Vic clubs there.

One further issue with creating teams from Tassie then CBR would be corporate sponsorship. Two clubs that’d be from smaller population centres which may be an issue for the AFL’s coffers.
Canberra would have a lot more opportunities for corporate sponsorship then Tasmania and I say that as someone who's ardently in favour of Tassie. Main issue would be Manuka and either potentially expanding the ground or building a new footy oval that's more centralized. Reckon for support Canberra would be lucky in having Wagga and Albury/Wodonga not far away either.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
5,261
6,040
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
It's just been posted above why SA wouldn't work having a third side and aside from population it wouldn't be any different at all to WA having a third side either.
So you're just glossing over the #1 biggest thing required for a team? Not only is Perth bigger, growing faster and a lot wealthier, it sprawls much more than Adelaide does, so geographic separation might lead to an outlying area rallying around a team. Also, there's no reason a third team has to be based off any state league clubs and take their existing baggage like Port did.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
16,523
10,395
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
So you're just glossing over the #1 biggest thing required for a team? Not only is Perth bigger, growing faster and a lot wealthier, it sprawls much more than Adelaide does, so geographic separation might lead to an outlying area rallying around a team. Also, there's no reason a third team has to be based off any state league clubs and take their existing baggage like Port did.
How Perth hasn't got a 3rd team is beyond logic. 40% the size of Melbourne & 20% of the teams!!!!

Perth Sharks, based at the new stadium. Start now & it'll grow.

Tas1 &WA3. ;)
 

Carringbush2010

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 6, 2016
9,472
5,643
Perth
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Pines Football Club
So you're just glossing over the #1 biggest thing required for a team? Not only is Perth bigger, growing faster and a lot wealthier, it sprawls much more than Adelaide does, so geographic separation might lead to an outlying area rallying around a team. Also, there's no reason a third team has to be based off any state league clubs and take their existing baggage like Port did.
How Perth hasn't got a 3rd team is beyond logic. 40% the size of Melbourne & 20% of the teams!!!!

Perth Sharks, based at the new stadium. Start now & it'll grow.

Tas1 &WA3. ;)
The problem with 3rd teams in either Ade or Perth is getting ground base support, there'd be little if any fans that would jump off either freo or wc for a brand new start up.

Being a Perth resident I haven't seen or heard ANY enthusiasm for a 3rd team here. Rusted on fans of the two here now.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
16,523
10,395
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Canberra would have a lot more opportunities for corporate sponsorship then Tasmania and I say that as someone who's ardently in favour of Tassie. Main issue would be Manuka and either potentially expanding the ground or building a new footy oval that's more centralized. Reckon for support Canberra would be lucky in having Wagga and Albury/Wodonga not far away either.
Maybe.

Canberra already has two professional 'football' teams, NRL & RU. So sponsorship may not be quite so easy.

The Tas Gov sees the AFL in terms of interstate tourism. Also for political reasons. Hence Hawks & North brought nothing to the table this year for their $$$$$, so bye, bye FIFO's. Better luck next year boys. ;)

Albury is near 350km from Canberra, Wagga Wagga near 250. So maybe not so close.

Having grounds in Launceston & Hobart would minimise travel greatly for most people to most games if we had our own team.

But good luck to any other area that wants to do a business proposal for the AFL's perusal.
 

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
7,557
15,347
Tigris River
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Baghdad Bombers
So you're just glossing over the #1 biggest thing required for a team? Not only is Perth bigger, growing faster and a lot wealthier, it sprawls much more than Adelaide does, so geographic separation might lead to an outlying area rallying around a team. Also, there's no reason a third team has to be based off any state league clubs and take their existing baggage like Port did.
I never said a third Perth side would need to be based on a state league side (and who out of the current crop would be realistic anyway?). Problem is that aside from Fremantle there is no area which has a strong football history and separate identity in Perth that would attract fans right out of the gate and there's not a Geelong or Gold Coast sized area away from Perth either.

A third team would barely get fans or do anything for the game other then take existing fans away from Freo and West Coast so unless the Mayor of Joondalup or someone else says "we can make a third team work, here's the data" and there's actually enough evidence to suggest that it could work then this will always be a discussion based around "hey Perth is big and they all love footy, should give 'em another side".

If Adelaide was the size of Perth I'd be saying the same thing.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
5,261
6,040
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I never said a third Perth side would need to be based on a state league side (and who out of the current crop would be realistic anyway?).
You said "It's just been posted above why SA wouldn't work having a third side". I'm assuming you were referring to Duckenthusiast 's post where part of the post suggested state league clubs would be unviable since even a dominant one like Port is only a middle to low AFL club in financial terms.

Problem is that aside from Fremantle there is no area which has a strong football history and separate identity in Perth that would attract fans right out of the gate
Midland does, or so I was told in the WA3 thread.

and there's not a Geelong or Gold Coast sized area away from Perth either.
Presently, no. But Mandurah will grow to something around Geelong's present level in time. So will the City of Swan, which also has a green belt separating it from the rest of Perth. Some would say Mandurah is already in the bag for Fremantle, but a fast developing area full of young families like the City of Swan could be won over to a new team.

A third team would barely get fans or do anything for the game other then take existing fans away from Freo and West Coast
So they won't get fans but they will take a significant number of existing fans away? Which is it?

Freo's fans seem very concentrated by geography, and West Coast isn't suffering from a lack of fans in any way. So basing a team somewhere away from Freo's support base shouldn't be a problem.

There are a lot of people who can't get West Coast tickets, and I'm sure at least some of them despise Freo too much to go to their games instead. They could be won over to a third team.
 

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
7,557
15,347
Tigris River
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Baghdad Bombers
You said "It's just been posted above why SA wouldn't work having a third side". I'm assuming you were referring to @Duckenthusiast 's post where part of the post suggested state league clubs would be unviable since even a dominant one like Port is only a middle to low AFL club in financial terms.
There is no state league side in the WAFL who'd be a viable AFL side nor is there a geographical location in Perth that's distinct enough like the Gold Coast or Geelong who would attract enough new fans to make it work. And our financials were more to do with the SANFL and the deals with Footy Park before we moved to Adelaide Oval mixed with our own incompetence.

Midland does, or so I was told in the WA3 thread.
I reckon Norwood could in theory have a sizable following in the AFL due to their geographic location in Adelaide (both teams are currently based out west whilst Norwood would have the entire affluent eastern suburbs to themselves). Theory and actual reality are two different things.

Presently, no. But Mandurah will grow to something around Geelong's present level in time. So will the City of Swan, which also has a green belt separating it from the rest of Perth. Some would say Mandurah is already in the bag for Fremantle, but a fast developing area full of young families like the City of Swan could be won over to a new team.
I feel like this argument would actually be realistic if WA wasn't a footy stronghold with two of the most parochial fan bases in the league. There's a difference to adding Gold Coast as a new team compared to adding Mandurah, Joondalup, Midland or the City of Swan.

So they won't get fans but they will take a significant number of existing fans away? Which is it?
A 3rd WA side would not create new fans and it would just eat into support for the existing teams. I should have made that clearer in my last post.

There are a lot of people who can't get West Coast tickets, and I'm sure at least some of them despise Freo too much to go to their games instead. They could be won over to a third team.
I could quite easily make the exact same case for Norwood. Problem is, and I've already discussed this, is that footy in SA and WA compared to NSW and QLD is huge. SA and WA are massive footy strongholds and unless someone actually does number crunching on this and shows me that there'd be enough support for it then I'm always going to think WA3 is bullshit. Perth has a huge population but it doesn't mean people who can't go to WCE games would suddenly jump on Joondalup Falcons or whoever.
 

Righteo

Purple Campaigner
Apr 7, 2010
30,860
37,386
West
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Celtics - The Brew Crew
Where does this huge push for a third Perth side come from? It's just been posted above why SA wouldn't work having a third side and aside from population it wouldn't be any different at all to WA having a third side either.

After Tasmania, and much to the dismay of many, the AFL's only expansion concerns should be north of the Barrassi Line.
It comes from people who don't live in WA, oddly enough.
 

Professor Knowall

Club Legend
Sep 24, 2006
2,900
1,709
Wimmera
AFL Club
Collingwood
So if WA3 isn't a go'er - is there a stronger push for SA3?
If WA3 isn't a goer (and most WA locals on this thread say it isn't), then SA3 is most definitely not a goer given that Adelaide is a third smaller than Perth, has a poorer economy and less growth.

For me (about my third shot at this), short term we could/should add Tasmania (based in Hobart but home games shared 6-5 between Hobart and Launceston) and Canberra (with a couple of home games each played in Albury and Wagga).

Longer term, maybe a third Sydney club or alternatively Newcastle (one or the other but not both) along with the 22nd club being North Qld, based in Cairns but also playing some home games in Townsville, Mackay and Darwin.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Established1870

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 28, 2016
7,557
15,347
Tigris River
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Other Teams
Baghdad Bombers
So if WA3 isn't a go'er - is there a stronger push for SA3?
fu** no. I imagine if SA had the population of Perth it might be a different story in regards to people pushing it but I think right and for the long term SA will have 2 teams.

For me (about my third shot at this), short term we could/should add Tasmania (based in Hobart but home games shared 6-5 between Hobart and Launceston) and Canberra (with a couple of home games each played in Albury and Wagga).
A struggling Victorian team with a fan base the size of Dubbo, NSW should relocate to Canberra rather then make a side there from scratch. Reckon a capital side with their moniker being the national animal of the country sounds like a decent option.

Another thing to think about is list reductions and spending in footy departments means it's now a hell of a lot more financially feasible for "boutique" clubs to come into the comp. Canberra, Darwin and more NSW/QLD sides (down the line) suddenly become a lot more viable whereas if there were no caps on spending and big lists, Darwin would have less chance of getting into the AFL then Brunei.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
5,261
6,040
A sugar refinery
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
There is no state league side in the WAFL who'd be a viable AFL side nor is there a geographical location in Perth that's distinct enough like the Gold Coast or Geelong who would attract enough new fans to make it work.
I gave you one above.

I feel like this argument would actually be realistic if WA wasn't a footy stronghold with two of the most parochial fan bases in the league. There's a difference to adding Gold Coast as a new team compared to adding Mandurah, Joondalup, Midland or the City of Swan.
What you're missing is that the current population won't last forever. As old generations die off and new ones emerge, if they grow up with a team more local to them, that can build a distinct fan base.

A 3rd WA side would not create new fans and it would just eat into support for the existing teams. I should have made that clearer in my last post.
Neither WA team is suffering from a lack of support. Particularly the Eagles who dominate the entire state save for the stretch between Fremantle and Mandurah. What difference is it going to make the Eagles' ability to turn a profit if people from a certain part of Perth who are already locked out of Eagles games choose to support another team instead? They'll still sell out every game and have thousands on the waiting list for tickets.

I could quite easily make the exact same case for Norwood.
Could you really? It's been over 20 years since Norwood were an entity with serious popularity. On top of which, they'd suffer from the Port Adelaide syndrome of other SANFL club fans hating them. Not to mention Perth has far better opportunities for corporate support than Adelaide does.

Problem is, and I've already discussed this, is that footy in SA and WA compared to NSW and QLD is huge. SA and WA are massive footy strongholds
That's precisely why a third team in WA can work. Not only do they have the population, the economy and the corporate power, those people are actually interested in Australian Rules. The demand for top level Australian Rules in WA is greater than the supply, and will continue to be so in future as the population expands but the number of seats available does not. And there are growing areas surrounding Perth, distinct from the rest of it, where a team can take root in future.

Perth has a huge population but it doesn't mean people who can't go to WCE games would suddenly jump on Joondalup Falcons or whoever.
People from Joondalup might. Or at least they might if Joondalup were distinct from the rest of Perth, but I'm told this is not the case. Pity, when you consider how many people are going to move to Alkimos and Yanchep over the next 30 years.
 

Quolls19

Rookie
Jul 4, 2019
25
15
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Afl expansion

22 teams.

Each play 22 games.

23 rounds with a bye for each side

Each team plays each other once, alternating home and away, 21 games.

An extra rival/derby round each year, 22 games in total.



Prime expansion teams.

Tasmania: home games split between Hobart and Launceston. The extra home game (11/2=5.5) could be played in Auckland or alternate each season)

Canberra/Wodonga/Albury: GWS should play all home games in Western Sydney if they want to establish a following in Western Sydney.

Northern Australia Nomads, home games split evenly between Darwin, Townsville, Cairns with one game in Alice Springs, one other alternating between Rockhampton, Mackay and Port Moresby.



4th expansion team out of

New Zealand (very, unlikely and recent events shows the risks with international competitions).

Newcastle

North Sydney

Wollongong

WA no 3

SA no 3

Sunshine Coast



14 players, 3 interchange. (Now 22 (18 + 4)

30 main list, 8 rookie list*. (Now 40 & 8)

4 delisted or undrafted players*.

4 foreign born development player*.

*rookie list for new teams can be used as a protected development squad for local players for a limited time.



Developing states 2 other sports players max 3 year on not included in salary cap/list.

Total listed players currently is 40, leaves 10 players per team excess, a total of 180.

180 players divided by 4 new teams = 45 current players available

for selection for each new team.



Salary Cap and AFL allocations reduced accordingly.

Reduction in AFL allocation will cover the players cost of the new teams.

Introduce a Standard Salary System.

Retain the match payment so every player gets the same match payment per game, currently $5,000 I think, so that a player who plays every game (22 per season) receives a season amount of $110,000 on top of the standard salary.

Standard salaries are based on a % of the salary cap so that they are adjusted in accordance with cap increases.

Standard salaries are paid on a “tiered” basis.



Tier 1 would be the highest paid player, the example below is a 9 tiered system + 6 draftee levels as is the current AFL methodology.



The player numbers shown are just for demonstration and can be altered as long as the salary cap is maintained.



LevelPlayersSalaryTotal
Level 11700,000700,000
Level 24600,0002,400,000
Level 34500,0002,000,000
Level 42450,000900,000
Level 52400,000800,000
Level 61350,000350,000
Level 71300,000300,000
Level 81200,000200,000
Level 92150,000300,000
D1-22100,000200,000
D2-2295,000190,000
D3-2290,000180,000
D1-1290,000180,000
D2-1285,000170,000
D3-1280,000160,000
Total304,190,0009,030,000






Long service bonus for players paid to players remaining at the same club for designated periods. Say 25% for 8 & 9 years service, and 50% for 10 year plus players. Long service bonus payments are not included in the salary cap.

The salary cap for 2022 is currently listed as $13,273,500 per club. Subtract the match payments of $2,420,000 per season leaves a base salary total of $10,853,000.

The match payment per player $5,000) remains the same, but the per season amount reduces to $2,090,000.

The remaining cap amount is reduced by the % of the reduced playing list, being a little generous say 20% (actually 25%, ie:40 to 30). So the balance of the cap available for the standard salary is $9,130,000 with TPP equaling $11,220,000.

For the pedantic I do realise that some figures have been rounded, but not significantly.



For a 32 player list the excess is, 8 x 18= 144/4= 36 players per new team.



New teams, 36 on list x 1st 2 years

Then 34 x next 2 years.

With adjusted salary cap based on level 8 and 9.



Games now 18 teams x 22(.5) rounds = 198 games.

22 teams x 22 (.5) rounds = 242 games.

.5 means byes in the middle of the season.

11 games per round

1 Thursday

1/2 Friday

3/4Saturday

3/4 Sunday

1 Monday

Increase in TV rights to supplement establishing the new clubs and extra travel costs.



If the AFL can establish itself as an equal or near equal in NSW the TV rights will again increase, not too far away from equality in Queensland.



There are a number of new players in TV industry, FTA and Pay, and more coming, some are heavily invested in sport in the USA and I believe they are waiting for the opportunity to get their share of our sport especially the major 2.



AFL is the major football code in Oz but having a bigger, well managed, footprint in the northern states will increase its broadcast value significantly.



Onwards and upwards.



And why 14?

Grounds and fitness are far better than in the past, attacking football is diminishing surprisingly because the players are quicker, less players, less congestion. Dump the flanks.



Other rules

Backward kicks, marks only count in the attacking sides forward 50.



No stacks on the mill. Only 1 player from each team to be involved in a ground tackle. (When one player is grounded, any part of their body bar feet and hands) or on 1 player per tackle.



Last touch out of bounds free kick.

Out of bounds kicked on the full, free kick plus 10/15 metre penalty.



Ruck possession rule reinstated.



Enforce the current rules re no contact 5 yard and out of play provisions.



Just an “out there” thought, when the defence forces a ball through the posts, 3 points when through the goals and 2 points when through the behinds. A bit hard to manage.
 

Top Bottom