Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[doppleganger]

Well of course it is, Contracted player traded for pick 95, had we not taken on his salary would've cost Carlton much more.

So you are saying Carlton were smart to only give up a 6th round pick for Lobbe?

What should he have been worth?

 

[david addison]

I just can't relate to all these people who say the Blues are going backwards.

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http://spellbackwards.com/

 

[schmuttt]

That's the issue - we have really struggled to attract any to the Northern Blues. It's a bit of a catch 22. If you are a rebuilding team with lots of youth, no-one wants to play for your affiliate because a) the team gets smashed every week, and b) you get to sit on the bench behind some 18 yo scrawny kid who is learning his role for the AFL team that you desperately want to impress... no-one wants that gig

However, I'll concede that a slower turnover retaining more 'spuds' on the list might have been better. If we are keeping spuds to fill out the VFL, they might as well be our own - particularly if you are talking about guys like Dylan Buckley (who was a former F/S). I guess its a question of whether you keep going with a guy you know is struggling at your club, or whether you take a chance on someone elsewhere.

In terms of finding the next Podsiadly, Rowe, etc - there's some similar factors at play there, as well as a bit of luck. We were keen on Tim Kelly last year at pick 30, but he went at 24. Had we used our previous pick on him (pick 10) we would have been crushed, and I don't think he would have played nearly as well at Carlton as elsewhere. Those older guys tend to make an impact and be more successful at good teams too - I don't think Bayley Fristch, for example, would look any better than Jack Silvagni at Carlton. That's something far easier to do at a good team than a poor one

Agree with your point that mature age players look much better in good sides, but Fritsch was dominating VFL level last year at the same age Silvagni is now.

 

[SickQwon]

So you are saying Carlton were smart to only give up a 6th round pick for Lobbe?

What should he have been worth?

You'd have to ask a Port fan. However the only indication of his worth i can give you is that Port signed him for 5 years and obviously valued him high enough to be in their long term plans before the acquisition of Ryder.

"His former teammate Kane Cornes told NAB AFL Trade Radio he couldn't speak highly enough of the character of Lobbe, whom he said would prove invaluable to the developing Carlton side with his professionalism and selflessness." - AFL website

Anyway, Lobbe is very low on the list of problems at Carlton.

 

[doppleganger]

You'd have to ask a Port fan. However the only indication of his worth i can give you is that Port signed him for 5 years and obviously valued him high enough to be in their long term plans before the acquisition of Ryder.

"His former teammate Kane Cornes told NAB AFL Trade Radio he couldn't speak highly enough of the character of Lobbe, whom he said would prove invaluable to the developing Carlton side with his professionalism and selflessness." - AFL website

Anyway, Lobbe is very low on the list of problems at Carlton.

LoL...yeah Port valued him highly in 2014.

Back in 2014 Melbourne were playing Mark Jamar ahead of Max Gawn.

Lobbe just highlights poor list management, which is Carlton’s problem.

 

[half_back_flank]

Then you got other types of dumps like Lobbe, which is more of the typical type of dump you'd see in American sports where teams like Port want to bring in Rockliff & Watts but cant find space in the salary cap so Carlton relieve them of this by taking on a contract from a player that Port don't need.

What are you getting out of the Lobbe dump?

 

[SickQwon]

What are you getting out of the Lobbe dump?

A cheap player-coach.

 

[SickQwon]

LoL...yeah Port valued him highly in 2014.

Back in 2014 Melbourne were playing Mark Jamar ahead of Max Gawn.

Lobbe just highlights poor list management, which is Carlton’s problem.

"invaluable to the developing Carlton side with his professionalism and selflessness" = poor list management? for a player that cost nothing?

Sorry man, I already knew you weren't willing to view anything objectively due to the preconceived anti-carlton bias but I can't continue anymore, if you're not going to be open-minded like I am then there's just no point.

 

[half_back_flank]

A cheap player-coach.

He's in line for his first game of the year. In round 16. On 400+ a year.

If you valued him that much as a coach, just tell him to retire and sign him up to a multi year deal.


I could understand the GWS salary dumps because it served a purpose, but getting Lobbe just made absolutely no sense. The money wasted on him should have been allocated to renegotiating youngsters contracts with handshakes to make sure they stay on.

 

[SickQwon]

He's in line for his first game of the year. In round 16. On 400+ a year.

If you valued him that much as a coach, just tell him to retire and sign him up to a multi year deal.


I could understand the GWS salary dumps because it served a purpose, but getting Lobbe just made absolutely no sense. The money wasted on him should have been allocated to renegotiating youngsters contracts with handshakes to make sure they stay on.

I dunno man, Lobbe has been irrelevant this year until the last few pages apparently. I've taken the time to look him up and he just seems like a fantastic character to be around the club.

"Lobbe’s leadership qualities saw him elevated to joint vice-captain in 2015. The 28-year-old was awarded the Club’s Coaches’ award in 2014."

Like I said before, he's bringing a quality to the club that is invaluable to the development of a young side. He's contract ends at the end of the year. About 3 hours ago I thought Carlton would delist him, but now I hope we keep him.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

What are you getting out of the Lobbe dump?

TPP floor and a backup for two very injury prone rucks in Kreuzer and Phillips

 

[Malifice]

I think Carlton is another example of clubs trying to push out all their experience all at once. The idea is to be able to give the young players as many games as possible but it never works as it means there are no experienced older players to protect the younger ones. It is a flawed philosophy that needs to die.

We tried to keep experience. See our recent resigning of Murphy and holding onto Thomas.

The only experienced players we traded out were Henderson, Tuohy and Gibbs (and the later was only after we kept him for a year, and was at his request). Henderson largely choose to leave on his own accord (technically so did Tuohy, but he was semi-pushed out with a lowballed offer).

You might be able to add Yarran to that list, but he had well documented issues and was done.

Waite and Betts walked out as free agents.

Im saying this mainly to highlight the diabolical state of our list leading up to (and being the cause of) or list reset. We messed up 8 years of drafting prior to this 3 year reset (see the list above). We simply dont have any other experienced players on our list other than Murphy, Kruezer and Simpson as a result.

We've partially tried to rectify this by picking up experienced B and C graders to fill gaps and provide harder bodies (Lobbe, Kerridge, Mullett, OShea etc). We simply were not in a position to trade any more A grade established talent in (it would cost precious low draft picks) or to attract A graders as Free Agents (they wont want to come).

Now that the heavy lifting has been done via the draft during the 3 year reset, and we've formed a nucleus of a side going forwards, we're looking to attract quality players in the 23-26 year age bracket (and any Free Agents we can find). We've publicly stated as much.

 

[Doro]

He's in line for his first game of the year. In round 16. On 400+ a year.

If you valued him that much as a coach, just tell him to retire and sign him up to a multi year deal.


I could understand the GWS salary dumps because it served a purpose, but getting Lobbe just made absolutely no sense. The money wasted on him should have been allocated to renegotiating youngsters contracts with handshakes to make sure they stay on.

With the Gibbs trade getting done and and Rockliff choosing Port, we suddenly needed to find a contract to hit the minimum salary cap.

 

[kozi]

Mark Logiudice going on SEN this morning.

He speaks!

 

[doppleganger]

"invaluable to the developing Carlton side with his professionalism and selflessness" = poor list management? for a player that cost nothing?

Sorry man, I already knew you weren't willing to view anything objectively due to the preconceived anti-carlton bias but I can't continue anymore, if you're not going to be open-minded like I am then there's just no point.

I find it quite humorous how you are flip flopping whilst trying to justify the trade.

First he is a Salary dump
Then perhaps Port are still paying his salary
Then info about his performance in 2014 becomes a factor.
Some comment from Kane Cornes then is relevant.
Next he is a ‘cheap’ coach.

For mine it just highlights poor list management, which remains a big problem at Carlton.

 

[Sando22]

Cut out the anti-Richmond stuff thanks. Find another way to deal with 2017 rather than calling us d-hs on here.

I didn't think the post you are attacking is so far from the mark, Blues' recent efforts against fellow strugglers suggests they are a poor side on a historical level.

SOS coming out so hard smelt a bit of denial which makes me worry for the Blues over the next few years.

I'll cut it out when you lot stop acting like you own the joint. It's truly sickening. Got nothing to do with me "dealing with 2017".
Tiges completely deserved the cup and look in the box seat to go again this year. Have nothing but respect for how they've turned it around and how they perform week in, week out but it doesn't give a licence to it's supporters to carry on like w***ers every time they post.

As I said, the game is played very differently now to how it was when Fitzroy were battling so the comparison is nigh on irrelevant. If you disagree then you either don't know what you're talking about or you are too young to remember.

SOS came out to hold to account some of the morons within the media who throw unsubstantiated barbs at will with little to no factual evidence. Ala Caro, LLoyd.

 

[SickQwon]

I find it quite humorous how you are flip flopping whilst trying to justify the trade.

First he is a Salary dump
Then perhaps Port are still paying his salary
Then info about his performance in 2014 becomes a factor.
Some comment from Kane Cornes then is relevant.
Next he is a ‘cheap’ coach.

For mine it just highlights poor list management, which remains a big problem at Carlton.

Who rucks this weekend?

 

[Unique Name]

Has anyone questioned why two Carlton players have had heart issues two weeks running? How often do heart conditions arise in a normal season? Two players from the same club in successive weeks must be quite the anomaly.

 

[cfc4life]

Has anyone questioned why two Carlton players have had heart issues two weeks running? How often do heart conditions arise in a normal season? Two players from the same club in successive weeks must be quite the anomaly.

Marchbank didn't play for 11 weeks at any level and then was dropped into the team who went up and played in 26 degrees and high humidity. Silly move by the selection panel and medicos.

Kreuzer's is a bit more worrying, don't think we know the full situation yet. Although he also had a rib complaint.

 

[SickQwon]

Has anyone questioned why two Carlton players have had heart issues two weeks running? How often do heart conditions arise in a normal season? Two players from the same club in successive weeks must be quite the anomaly.

No statement from the club except a comment from Thomas. Apparently it's nothing big, Marchbank was short of breath so received medication to lower his heart rate, he was advised to not play out the rest of the game.
I'd imagine Kreuzer may be the same but his looked a bit off tbh.
Rib complaint = shortness of breath like Caleb?

Would also like to know what's going on. Marchbank was cleared to play the following week so it could just be an anomaly.

 

[Ron The Bear]

The Our Watch woman they’ve added to the board might be more receptive to the claims of alleged rape victims than John Elliott was.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

s**t. I think we all just found out why the Carlton president doesn't do media.


<crash!>

 

[doppleganger]

Who rucks this weekend?

Port will probably go with Dixon and Westhoff like they did earlier in the year when ryder went down.

 

[SickQwon]

Matthew Lobbe.

Hmm, lucky we have the ruck depth to cover for Kreuz and Philips. Would've been terrible list management to be forced to play an underdeveloped 19 year-old against Westhoff.

 

[Rich01]

Kennedy, Lobbe, Lang, Mullett, OShea, Shaw, Smedts, Marchbank, Pickett, Palmer, A Silvagni, Gorringe, Wright, Kerridge, Lamb, Philips, Plowman, Sumner.

All picked up during last 3 year’s draft and trade periods.

I wonder how many will be on Carlton’s list in November next year.

I see 4, possibly 5 still on the list at that time of the 18 SOS brought in.

So not only does he have to cut the dead wood from the previous regime, he needs to cut it from the players he brought in as well.

And while there is some debate about the development of some of the top end talent brought in through the national draft, his efforts in the rookie draft are poor.

Jesse Glass Mcasker, Andrew Gullici, Matt Korcheck, Kym Lebois all should be gone at the end of this year.