Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

Should Carlton receive a priority pick?

  • Yes

    Votes: 70 19.1%
  • No

    Votes: 296 80.9%

  • Total voters
    366
  • Poll closed .

bumsonseats

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Its the risk that most of the list are either unknown quantities, or known to be off the mark to make finals.

Cripps - goes without saying Agree
C. Curnow - looks like a superstar in the making. Disagree. He's a superstar now.
L. O'Brien - looks very capable Unproven kid
P. Dow - also looks very capable Unproven kid
Weitering - he will be pretty solid once they get their act together Regressed kid who looks shaky.
H. McKay - got a bit of something and will get better with more experience. Great foil for Curnow Unproven kid
Z. Fisher - very exciting prospect. Would take him at my club tomorrow. Got a bit of spunk about him. Agree. Looks quality.
Marchbank - can play a role Role players are fine in KPD positions.
Docherty - has been a big loss for them Agree
Plowman - looks ok. Disagree. I'd be surprised if he was on a list if not for the expansion sides and dilution of talent.
SPS - bit of X factor. Unproven kid.

It is feeling like Melbourne pre-Roos/PJ resurgence.
there is something to work with in that list.

I would much rather have the Carlton list than GC list
 

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SickQwon

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Its the risk that most of the list are either unknown quantities, or known to be off the mark to make finals.

Cripps - goes without saying Agree
C. Curnow - looks like a superstar in the making. Disagree. He's a superstar now.
L. O'Brien - looks very capable Unproven kid
P. Dow - also looks very capable Unproven kid
Weitering - he will be pretty solid once they get their act together Regressed kid who looks shaky.
H. McKay - got a bit of something and will get better with more experience. Great foil for Curnow Unproven kid
Z. Fisher - very exciting prospect. Would take him at my club tomorrow. Got a bit of spunk about him. Agree. Looks quality.
Marchbank - can play a role Role players are fine in KPD positions.
Docherty - has been a big loss for them Agree
Plowman - looks ok. Disagree. I'd be surprised if he was on a list if not for the expansion sides and dilution of talent.
SPS - bit of X factor. Unproven kid.

It is feeling like Melbourne pre-Roos/PJ resurgence.
Like others have said, not proven quality but a good core group of 1-3 year players to build around.

We've been in this position 10 years ago, we ultimately failed because we did not provide our future with enough support/depth. We cannot make the same mistake again.
 

citizen-erased

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there is something to work with in that list.

I would much rather have the Carlton list than GC list
If you asked me last year, i'd have disagreed. The loss of Lynch and potentially May is going to set that side back.
Carlton would still boast Cripps, Curnow, Kruezer, Docherty and Simpson.
GCS don't have a top end to match that without Lynch and May.

GCS also ballsed up pick 2 for Weller.
That was a dumb trade that really didn't help things.

What i see with Carlton is a need to get 10 odd players in over the next 2-3 years that aren't 18yo's.
Find B-Graders that can step in and step up to the load.
Effectively do what we did with top ups in Brown, Hartley, McKernan, Dea, etc.

All players who will give you reliable graft and can be effective best 22 players until they are no longer required to be and can be depth.
 

citizen-erased

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Like others have said, not proven quality but a good core group of 1-3 year players to build around.

We've been in this position 10 years ago, we ultimately failed because we did not provide our future with enough support/depth. We cannot make the same mistake again.
agree
Depth in kids is there
And can continue to be added to over the years.
Critical thing now is find replacements for the ones that didn't work out over the years

EFC did something similar in recent years.
Found Stewart as a young KP who had done some pre-seasons
Stringer, Saad, Smith - all walked into our 22

Melbourne have also done this.
Tyson, Vince, Lewis, Hibberd, Melksham, Lever.
Gave them the cover for the likes of Petracca and Hogan (highly rated kids) to miss large chunks and not notice it so much.
 

SickQwon

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agree
Depth in kids is there
And can continue to be added to over the years.
Critical thing now is find replacements for the ones that didn't work out over the years

EFC did something similar in recent years.
Found Stewart as a young KP who had done some pre-seasons
Stringer, Saad, Smith - all walked into our 22

Melbourne have also done this.
Tyson, Vince, Lewis, Hibberd, Melksham, Lever.
Gave them the cover for the likes of Petracca and Hogan (highly rated kids) to miss large chunks and not notice it so much.
It's what will make or break SOS as a recruiter. I understand O'Shea, Mullett, Lobbe, A. Silvagni ect are just filling holes on our list, but there's no way we can rely on this type of recruitment going forward. Attracting established talent like Essendon & Melbourne will be Carlton's biggest challenge at this stage of the rebuild.
Willing to reserve judgement on SOS until he can prove that he can do this.
 

NavyBlueTJ35

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I think Carlton and opposition supporters differ on opinions with the list.
It's one thing to differ, but its another thing to have no knowledge whatsoever.

You're already pulling the plug on a first-year draftee and a third-year, hard-working KPF.
After today, calling Kennedy a spud makes you look stupid. Weren't Essendon interested in him? Well at least I heard quite a few of their supporters were.
And Plowman is a fairly good role player that could play 200 games for us. His best is pretty decent.

People usually think supporters overrate their own crop but judging by this, I think it's more us giving them a proper chance while everybody else is quick to call them a 'bust'.

A player isn't a bust until they're out the door. Sumner and Smedts became that.
 

citizen-erased

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It's what will make or break SOS as a recruiter. I understand O'Shea, Mullett, Lobbe, A. Silvagni ect are just filling holes on our list, but there's no way we can rely on this type of recruitment going forward. Attracting established talent like Essendon & Melbourne will be Carlton's biggest challenge at this stage of the rebuild.
Willing to reserve judgement on SOS until he can prove that he can do this.
yeah. you get why he got guys that could be selected to save the kids being destroyed.
But then you hardly see them (could be injured?).

But now is the time to go hard at adding 3+ starters each year.
Maybe it means you dont get high draft pick kids, but it helps the ones you have now.
 

NavyBlueTJ35

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The only thing I will say is this.

This idea of three drafts doesn't cut it for me. Brisbane made their team from 5 drafts. And there is no guarantee all of the players we take will make it.

Right now, there are a bunch I am bullish about:
Weitering, McKay, Curnow, SPS, Fisher, Williamson, Dow and O'Brien.

Then there are those that are yet to truly prove their value:
Cuningham, Silvagni, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, De Koning, Schumacher and Garlett.
 

Fadge

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Now I'm reading about trading Cripps?! I've seen it all.

Why not just package him up with Charlie and Doc for a fifth round pick and close the doors while we're at it?
Couldn't agree more. When you have a guy like that who could be the heart and soul of the club for the next ten years, the only time you would go there is he approached the club and says he wanted out, and even then you do everything in your powers to retain him.

Number 1 pick on the other hand is a different story.
 

NavyBlueTJ35

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Couldn't agree more. When you have a guy like that who could be the heart and soul of the club for the next ten years, the only time you would go there is he approached the club and says he wanted out, and even then you do everything in your powers to retain him.

Number 1 pick on the other hand is a different story.
And that depends on what we trade it for. The best scenario would involve a couple of high picks in return, because if we were to be honest there is no player in sight right now that is anywhere near worth that pick.

People on your side of the fence have been complaining about how the club's been approaching the recent trade periods and trying to be creative out of what it has had, and now these same people want us to cough up something of more value for a similar price. Make up your minds.

I'd personally take most of the draft picks, get a couple of more kids and use one or two of them on mature-age recruits. That way there is less risk and more reward.
 

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citizen-erased

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Now I'm reading about trading Cripps?! I've seen it all.

Why not just package him up with Charlie and Doc for a fifth round pick and close the doors while we're at it?
just a hypothetical on how you'd approach it as a ways of filling the gaps quicker
Wouldn't happen unless Paddy opted to leave.

Same was said of Essendon in 2016 with Hooker and Hurley, and using them to get a crop of youngsters for the future

If we lost Hooker and Hurley for McCluggage, Taranto and Simpkin (for example), we'd have a very young defence (Hartley, Francis, Ridley, Redman) supported by a few experienced guys in Dea, Goddard and Brown, but 3 very good kids on the list.

Can't really say we're in a better place or not.
Time will tell based on whether we get into a spot to challenge whilst at least one of Hurley or Hooker are on the list.
 

citizen-erased

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Couldn't agree more. When you have a guy like that who could be the heart and soul of the club for the next ten years, the only time you would go there is he approached the club and says he wanted out, and even then you do everything in your powers to retain him.

Number 1 pick on the other hand is a different story.
1 doesn't have the allure it once did
When we had it, not many were keen on it.
So we took our choice of a fairly even top 5.

And thats all it gives you and sometimes that can be quite loaded.
Less so for us, we weren't in a position where nailing that pick was critical...we didn't get it based on the state of our list.

Lukosius may well be that sort of talent where 1 is a valuable commodity.
But i think the likes of Walsh, Rankine and King look just as good in my eyes.

May not find too many with top 5 picks looking to trade.
 

NavyBlueTJ35

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just a hypothetical on how you'd approach it as a ways of filling the gaps quicker
Wouldn't happen unless Paddy opted to leave.

Same was said of Essendon in 2016 with Hooker and Hurley, and using them to get a crop of youngsters for the future

If we lost Hooker and Hurley for McCluggage, Taranto and Simpkin (for example), we'd have a very young defence (Hartley, Francis, Ridley, Redman) supported by a few experienced guys in Dea, Goddard and Brown, but 3 very good kids on the list.

Can't really say we're in a better place or not.
Time will tell based on whether we get into a spot to challenge whilst at least one of Hurley or Hooker are on the list.
Hypothetical or not. The idea is ludicrous.

1. We are talking about one of our potential club captains.
2. The way he spoke about how rapt he was for Curnow to sign on tells me he is pretty happy about where he is at the moment. And I don't think the results will deter him in any way.
3. If he were to leave, that would damage his reputation severely. To abandon a sinking ship and search for cheap glory (which by the way, is never guaranteed). Cripps doesn't sound like that sort of person.
4. As for the 'go home' factor. His home is still that far off from the city of Perth. He wouldn't be gaining much more from the move other than being closer to his family.
 

citizen-erased

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Hypothetical or not. The idea is ludicrous.

1. We are talking about one of our potential club captains.
2. The way he spoke about how rapt he was for Curnow to sign on tells me he is pretty happy about where he is at the moment. And I don't think the results will deter him in any way.
3. If he were to leave, that would damage his reputation severely. To abandon a sinking ship and search for cheap glory (which by the way, is never guaranteed). Cripps doesn't sound like that sort of person.
4. As for the 'go home' factor. His home is still that far off from the city of Perth. He wouldn't be gaining much more from the move other than being closer to his family.
All that is true

Im just wondering how/if you would approach the situation if it was on the cards
 
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Pretty sure he did contribute something. Would've given us plenty more if we'd supported his plan to move the club to Brisbane. That motion was defeated and he didn't last long enough to preside over a single game.
Doubt Bond gave anyone 'his' money. May have handed over some money he'd borrowed from some other poor schmuck.
 

NavyBlueTJ35

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All that is true

Im just wondering how/if you would approach the situation if it was on the cards
I'd just try to convince Cripps of the importance in his role, how well he is doing and the upward trajectory moving forward.

I'm not sure if any of this was applied with the blues keeping Brianna Davey for their AFLW team (after it was reported she wanted out), but you'd be doing anything you could to convince them of their value and what happens to both themselves and the club if they leave.
 

citizen-erased

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I'd just try to convince Cripps of the importance in his role, how well he is doing and the upward trajectory moving forward.

I'm not sure if any of this was applied with the blues keeping Brianna Davey for their AFLW team (after it was reported she wanted out), but you'd be doing anything you could to convince them of their value and what happens to both themselves and the club if they leave.
sorry. more if Carlton saw the opportunity to snag 2-3 players that they feel would be better for them than having Cripps.
case in point was our trade last year. If Stringer, Saad & Smith quality players were on the table from one club, and Cripps was all that was needed...Would the club consider it, and how do you approach it.
Esp if Cripps hasn't initiated anything.
 

Ron The Bear

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Doubt Bond gave anyone 'his' money. May have handed over some money he'd borrowed from some other poor schmuck.
Dunno, maybe. After he stepped down, Bond Corporation became a major sponsor for that season (1987).

Bond managed to attract support for the move to Brisbane from the likes of Graeme Richmond and Francis Bourke. Dyer and Bartlett were opposed. We were better off with Neville Crowe, even if things were to get a lot worse.

Carlton supporters wouldn't stand a chance if the powers-that-be decided to move house.
 

PP34

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just a hypothetical on how you'd approach it as a ways of filling the gaps quicker
Wouldn't happen unless Paddy opted to leave.

Same was said of Essendon in 2016 with Hooker and Hurley, and using them to get a crop of youngsters for the future

If we lost Hooker and Hurley for McCluggage, Taranto and Simpkin (for example), we'd have a very young defence (Hartley, Francis, Ridley, Redman) supported by a few experienced guys in Dea, Goddard and Brown, but 3 very good kids on the list.

Can't really say we're in a better place or not.
Time will tell based on whether we get into a spot to challenge whilst at least one of Hurley or Hooker are on the list.
But there’s no rush. As long as membership remains strong and Carlton can ignore outside noise they should be able to put together a good list eventually.

Unfortunately it takes time to build a team via the draft. Carlton has never really done it before, everyone’s used to Carlton just throwing money at players or trading for players like Judd. We’re basically starting from ground zero.

You don’t trade one of the best players in the competition for a bunch of kids/picks unless they actually want out. Even then a footy club would do everything possible to make them stay.

Take a look at every premier in the modern era. They’ve all got a Cripps like talent. They don’t grow on trees and he’s the exact sort of player you’d want in a big final.

Trading him for a couple of youngsters with potential or Devon Smith types would be silly. No guarantee the youngsters become guns and Devon Smith types are available every year, they’re not a rare commodity in the league.

It’s just ridiculous short sighted thinking. Carlton will fill their list in the next few seasons with a few more draft picks and hopefully then by attracting some out of contract players that are talented.
 
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I believe the AFL mentioned the PP is likely to be for the second round (if the Blues applies for one).
Similar to what the Lions received. Although it’s surprising given where Melbourne were ‘in the dark days’ that the AFL saw fit to take control of Melbourne and bring in a CEO and Coach (which they were satisfied with), yet didn’t give the demons a PP. their record was not dissimilar to that of the blues today.

Anyway, AFL can not afford for clubs to be rubbish for a long period of time. Particularly a club like Carlton who just don’t have the member support any longer.
They arranged Pick 2 for Frawley though, and didnt take any picks off them when they got found guilty of 'not tanking'.
 

citizen-erased

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But there’s no rush. As long as membership remains strong and Carlton can ignore outside noise they should be able to put together a good list eventually.

Unfortunately it takes time to build a team via the draft. Carlton has never really done it before, everyone’s used to Carlton just throwing money at players or trading for players like Judd. We’re basically starting from ground zero.

You don’t trade one of the best players in the competition for a bunch of kids/picks unless they actually want out. Even then a footy club would do everything possible to make them stay.

Take a look at every premier in the modern era. They’ve all got a Cripps like talent. They don’t grow on trees and he’s the exact sort of player you’d want in a big final.

You trade him hoping to get a Taranto or two, there’s no guarantee they reach the heights of Cripps.

It’s just ridiculous short sighted thinking. Carlton will fill their list in the next few seasons with a few more draft picks and hopefully then by attracting some out of contract players that are talented.
Exactly.
Say GWS were willing to offer Hopper, Taranto and Dev Smith (when he was on the list).
In return they wanted Cripps to help run a midfield of Ward, Kelly, Shiel, Scully, Coniglio & Whitfield whilst the window is wide open.

Would you swap Cripps for 2 consistent young kids plus a guy entering his peak and is a very good mid.

You lose a genuine superstar, but gain 3 starting 22 players who are likely to play 200+ regardless of how good your list is.

I would genuinely jump at it if it was Merrett and Essendon involved...and we need the players far less.
 

PP34

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Exactly.
Say GWS were willing to offer Hopper, Taranto and Dev Smith (when he was on the list).
In return they wanted Cripps to help run a midfield of Ward, Kelly, Shiel, Scully, Coniglio & Whitfield whilst the window is wide open.

Would you swap Cripps for 2 consistent young kids plus a guy entering his peak and is a very good mid.

You lose a genuine superstar, but gain 3 starting 22 players who are likely to play 200+ regardless of how good your list is.

I would genuinely jump at it if it was Merrett and Essendon involved...and we need the players far less.
No I wouldn’t even consider it.

As I said it’s short sighted thinking. Carlton will gain a few more kids in the next 2-3 years via the draft.

They can get a Devon Smith type once their list comes together and players see Carlton as a team on the up.

It’s much harder to find a Patrick Cripps and as I said every premiership team has someone capable of turning a game like him. Dusty last year, Bont the year before, Mitchell at the Hawks, Kennedy at the Swans.....I could go on.

Would much rather an extra year or two of pain for a team that has depth but also plenty of starpower rather than just having a 22 filled with okay to good players. That doesn’t get you anywhere in my mind.
 
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This is spot on. The players are confused. There's something at play here that hasn't been disclosed. A communication breakdown perhaps, or interference.
We had 12 players today 21 or under. Of the players over the age of 21 you can include such A graders as Shaw, Wright, Graham, Casboult Jones, and Lobbe, who are VFL players+ at best.

Our starting 8 in the midfield (including rotations) was Cripps, E Curnow, Murphy (so far so good) then Fisher (2nd year), SPS (2nd year), Dow (1st year), Polson (2nd year) and Kennedy (3rd year - no preseason due to shoulder injury and has missed several games with an ankle this year, 29th game).

We had Lobbe rucking to them.

Down back it was Simpson (so far so good) then Weitering, Marchbank (4th year - has missed about 2 of them with injury, 30th game), Obrien (1st year), JSOS, Shaw (spud), Jones (Injured in the 2nd and didnt play the second half).

Up forward we had C Curnow, McKay (3rd year, missed 1 year with injury, 10th game) Pickett (4th year, has missed about two due to injuries including a lisfranc and broken arm, 14th game), Casboult and Wright.

Due to injuries we have had to rotate 17 players through the Backline this year. We were two down on the bench by half time again this game. We now have had the worst injury run of all sides in the AFL. For a team with a bunch of kids in their 1st, 2nd and 3rd years, this is far from ideal.

We're basically playing Cripps, Murphy (when he hasnt been injured, which has been half the year), Simpson, a handfull of potatoes and a TAC cup squad.
 
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Ron The Bear

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We had 12 players today 21 or under. Of the players over the age of 21 you can include such A graders as Shaw, Wright, Graham, Casboult Jones, and Lobbe, who are VFL players+ at best.

Our starting 8 in the midfield (including rotations) was Cripps, E Curnow, Murphy (so far so good) then Fisher (2nd year), SPS (2nd year), Dow (1st year), Polson (2nd year) and Kennedy (3rd year - no preseason due to shoulder injury and has missed several games with an ankle this year, 29th game).

We had Lobbe rucking to them.

Down back it was Simpson (so far so good) then Weitering, Marchbank (4th year - has missed about 2 of them with injury, 30th game), Obrien (1st year), JSOS, Shaw (spud), Jones (Injured in the 2nd and didnt play the second half).

Up forward we had C Curnow, McKay (3rd year, missed 1 year with injury, 10th game) Pickett (4th year, has missed about two due to injuries including a lisfranc and broken arm, 14th game), Casboult and Wright.

Due to injuries we have had to rotate 17 players through the Backline this year. We were two down on the bench by half time again this game. We now have had the worst injury run of all sides in the AFL. For a team with a bunch of kids in their 1st, 2nd and 3rd years, this is far from ideal.

We're basically playing Cripps, Murphy (when he hasnt been injured, which has been half the year), Simpson, a handfull of potatoes and a TAC cup squad.
The bolded is extreme for Carlton (fifth occurrence in club history), but not exceptional by AFL standards. In the past decade Gold Coast has won 11 games under those conditions; GWS 9; Melbourne, Richmond, Collingwood & West Coast 1-2 each.

Look, it wasn't their worst performance and I haven't been overly critical today. They couldn't have been expected to win (last year's excellent late season defeat of Hawthorn aside) and toughed the game out pretty well, all things considered. But it's disappointing that they didn't raise a yelp early; a competitive half before running out of legs could've been ticked off as a pass.

It really only supports my opinion that Carlton's development is behind where it should be. There's not a lot of evidence of a young unit being moulded, just individuals swimming against the tide.

I'll concede the list has been stretched and the players look like they're at the end of their tether, and it's probably best not to take too much notice of what happens in the last five games... as long as they don't completely implode. Bolton needs to somehow keep it fun.
 
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