Updated The Bruce Lehrmann Trials * Justice Lee - "Mr Lehrmann raped Ms Higgins."

How long will the jury be out for?

  • Back the same afternoon

    Votes: 12 34.3%

  • One day

    Votes: 12 34.3%

  • Two days

    Votes: 6 17.1%

  • Three to five days

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Over a week

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

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  • #21
Historical Rape Allegation Against Fmr AG Christian Porter
The Alexander Matters matters

Just a reminder, this is the crime board and we need to be aware that there will be victims of crime either watching this thread or engaging in here from time to time. A degree of respect in all discussions is expected.

LINK TO TIMELINE
CJS INQUIRY
FINAL REPORT – BOARD OF INQUIRY – CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Joint media statement – Chief Minister and Attorney-General

LINK TO FEDERAL COURT DEFAMATION PROCEEDINGS
 
Last edited:
Wooden Robot said:
Not sure what happened to sub judice.
Click to expand...

I've only seen Courts pursue subjudice when a supression order has been breached, not so for every single case before the Court.
 
Trial starts in a few weeks time (4 October).
Sounds like there was a court event today related to the trial.
There's a pre-trial mention next week for it too.

A 56,000 Cellebrite report on MS Higgins mobile phone data.
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'Fresh battle in Brittany Higgins trial as defence seeks access to timeline'
'September 16, 2022 - 12:08PM'

'Bruce Lehrmann’s lawyers are seeking the document that outlines Ms Higgins’ version of events from 2019.'

'Andrew Berger said that when the defence made the request for the document, the Director of Public Prosecutions denied it, claiming legal professional privilege.'

'He said he wanted to “avoid issuing a subpoena” to Federal Police but on Friday filed the document with the court.

'Justice Lucy McCallum also ordered defence and a barrister appointed by the DPP to discuss what material from a 56,000 page Cellebrite report into data from Ms Higgins’ phone could be considered disclosable.

She told the court she had concerns the defence could be “chasing” cross-examination “rabbits”, and if that was the case, it would be a “very long trial”
“My primary function is to ensure Mr Lehrmann and the Crown have a fair trial. But secondarily, I’m not going to let cross-examination go uphill and down dale for weeks and weeks,” Ms McCallum said.

Steven Whybrow – appearing for Mr Lehrmann – said that was not his intention “to be here forever”.
The matter will return to court next week for a pre-trial mention.'
 

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BFew said:
Trial starts in a few weeks time (4 October).
Sounds like there was a court event today related to the trial.
Click to expand...
More detail on what went down today, in the below.

www.theguardian.com

Judge in Brittany Higgins’ alleged rape case doesn’t want pre-trial issues to ‘kibosh’ October start date

Lawyers for accused Bruce Lehrmann, who is pleading not guilty, indicate plans to subpoena police for document as judge warns against ‘chasing’ minor cross-examination points
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Kwality said:

Publisher halts Ego book that details Brittany Higgins’ claims of sexual assault​

Latest Nielsen BookScan 2022 figures showed in the first 10 days of Ego being available for purchase, about 1150 copies had been sold.


'The Australian last month reported that several other book deals could be impacted by delay of the criminal trial, including a book by Higgins, for which she will be paid about $250,000.

The deal was brokered by Wilkinson’s husband, Sydney Morning Herald journalist Peter FitzSimons.'
Click to expand...
I have a copy of said book. It makes for interesting reading. I think the evidence of the security staff that allowed them in and those that found Higgins in the morning will be crucial. Based on the book I am not surprised Turnbull’s son lost his court case.
 
This case was in court this morning.
It will return to court on Friday.

It appears that "he said, she said" is legally referred to as "word against word".

Even if Brittany Higgins does not secure a guilty verdict against Lehrmann, at least she will have tried to seek justice, and followed things through all the way to trial (so far).

www.smh.com.au

The Project’s Brittany Higgins tape won’t be used in trial

Crown prosecutor Shane Drumgold told the ACT Supreme Court on Wednesday he had “no legal basis” to rely on the recording after defence lawyer asked whether that interview of Higgins would be relied upon in the trial.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au

'The Project’s Brittany Higgins tape won’t be used in trial​

September 21, 2022 — 11.08am'

'A six-hour tape of Brittany Higgins being interviewed for television show The Project will not be used in the criminal trial of her alleged rapist, Bruce Lehrmann.

Crown prosecutor Shane Drumgold told the ACT Supreme Court on Wednesday he had “no legal basis” to rely on the recording after a defence lawyer asked whether that interview of Higgins would be relied upon in the trial.

However, the court heard that evidence would be given by a journalist as part of the prosecution against Lehrmann,'
....
'A short procedural hearing on Wednesday heard the prosecution would rely on CCTV footage from Parliament House, interviews with Lehrmann and Higgins, photographs, and other audio material.

The court also heard Higgins would be giving evidence from a remote location.

Chief Justice Lucy McCallum described it as a “word against word” case. The matter returns to court on Friday morning.'
 
When are both sides come clean with evidence ?

'Justice Lucy McCallum also ordered defence and a barrister appointed by the DPP to discuss what material from a 56,000 page Cellebrite report into data from Ms Higgins’ phone could be considered disclosable.'

'A crucial timeline provided to police by former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins is at the centre of a fresh fight in the Canberra courts.
Bruce Lehrmann’s lawyers are seeking the document that outlines Ms Higgins’ version of events from 2019.'

'..... when the defence made the request for the document, the Director of Public Prosecutions denied it, claiming legal professional privilege.'

 
Kwality said:
When are both sides come clean with evidence ?

'Justice Lucy McCallum also ordered defence and a barrister appointed by the DPP to discuss what material from a 56,000 page Cellebrite report into data from Ms Higgins’ phone could be considered disclosable.'

'A crucial timeline provided to police by former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins is at the centre of a fresh fight in the Canberra courts.
Bruce Lehrmann’s lawyers are seeking the document that outlines Ms Higgins’ version of events from 2019.'

'..... when the defence made the request for the document, the Director of Public Prosecutions denied it, claiming legal professional privilege.'

Click to expand...

Still arguing over what's allowed and what isn't I guess.
 
Kurve said:
Still arguing over what's allowed and what isn't I guess.
Click to expand...
No wonder the Judge has concerns:
'She told the court she had concerns the defence could be “chasing” cross-examination “rabbits”, and if that was the case, it would be a “very long trial”

“My primary function is to ensure Mr Lehrmann and the Crown have a fair trial. But secondarily, I’m not going to let cross-examination go uphill and down dale for weeks and weeks,” Ms McCallum said.'

'Steven Whybrow – appearing for Mr Lehrmann – said that was not his intention “to be here forever”.'

 
'The pre-trial hearing heard that jury members should not “have strong views one way or the other”.

“There are definitely two sides, if not more, to that cause,” Justice McCallum said.

“I guess anyone who went as a protester at the Press Club or against the (alleged victim) … it’s very hard.

“I’m just going to have to ask people to search their souls and say whether they think they can be impartial.”

The trial, set down for seven weeks, is due to start on October 4.'


Who would believe all potential jurors will tell the truth about their own suitability to sit on the jury ?
 
Kwality said:
'The pre-trial hearing heard that jury members should not “have strong views one way or the other”.

“There are definitely two sides, if not more, to that cause,” Justice McCallum said.

“I guess anyone who went as a protester at the Press Club or against the (alleged victim) … it’s very hard.

“I’m just going to have to ask people to search their souls and say whether they think they can be impartial.”

The trial, set down for seven weeks, is due to start on October 4.'


Who would believe all potential jurors will tell the truth about their own suitability to sit on the jury ?
Click to expand...
As I now understand it; the security staff are also not going to give evidence. Is that right?
 
spike101 said:
As I now understand it; the security staff are also not going to give evidence. Is that right?
Click to expand...

not my understanding.

There was this comment regarding potential jurors:
Justice McCallum said potential jurors would not automatically be disqualified from empanelment but that it would depend on the person’s reasons for attending those events.

“I suppose if it was a security guard or a journalist they wouldn’t necessarily need to be excused,” she said.

“What I’m trying to flush out is anyone who has effectively indicated that they follow the cause or that they’re a champion of the cause.”

 

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It seems to be increasingly difficult to find genuinely impartial people to sit on a jury in a notorious case. It’s virtually impossible to expect that most people wouldn’t have at least read a newspaper article and even accepted the journalist’s spin on the case. Then there was all the Me Too publicity plus the peripheral political involvement.
 
www.smh.com.au

‘Sold a pup’: Lehrmann never had sex with Higgins, defence lawyer says

Chief Justice Lucy McCallum warned potential jurors the case had become a “cause celebre” and anyone who attended the March for Justice should not participate.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
'Former ministers could give evidence in Lehrmann trial'

'Former prime minister Scott Morrison’s chief of staff John Kunkel and former Coalition ministers Linda Reynolds and Michaelia Cash could be called as witnesses'

'The names of Cash and Kunkel were read out on a list of 52 witnesses'

For a moment, I was dr(eam)ing that it might be a former National Party Minister giving Lehrmann a good reference!
 
BFew said:
www.smh.com.au

‘Sold a pup’: Lehrmann never had sex with Higgins, defence lawyer says

Chief Justice Lucy McCallum warned potential jurors the case had become a “cause celebre” and anyone who attended the March for Justice should not participate.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
'Former ministers could give evidence in Lehrmann trial'

'Former prime minister Scott Morrison’s chief of staff John Kunkel and former Coalition ministers Linda Reynolds and Michaelia Cash could be called as witnesses'

'The names of Cash and Kunkel were read out on a list of 52 witnesses'

For a moment, I was dr(eam)ing that it might be a former National Party Minister giving Lehrmann a good reference!
Click to expand...

When will the witness list be published ?
 
While opening the case, Chief Justice McCallum also told the jurors to ignore all media coverage of the case.

"If you've read or heard any of the publicity around this case, it's very important that you put it out of your mind," she said.

"The evidence in the trial is not what you read before today or [what] you saw on television."
Click to expand...

Seems legit.
 
jason_recliner said:
Seems legit.
Click to expand...

Similar comments over the need to prove guilt, not innocence.

'....the jury was sworn to give a true verdict and the standard of proof was beyond reasonable doubt.

Judge McCallum said Bruce Lehrmann was presumed innocent until proven guilty and was not required to prove his innocence as the burden of proof fell on the prosecution.'

 
'Steven Whybrow, representing Bruce Lehrmann, says the Brittany Higgins case epitomises the Mark Twain phrase "never let the truth get in the way of a good story".

Mr Whybrow said ignoring that Ms Higgins made her complaint to the media and not police would be akin to ignoring a "a herd of elephants in the room".

"The Australian public has been sold a pup with this story," he said.'
"There's a story out there that's not true."



Begs the question of the relevance of the journo's/media that ran the story in proving guilt.
 
While opening the case, Chief Justice McCallum also told the jurors to ignore all media coverage of the case.

"If you've read or heard any of the publicity around this case, it's very important that you put it out of your mind," she said.

"The evidence in the trial is not what you read before today or [what] you saw on television."


Like that’s going to happen.
 
Very interesting trial.

The accused has not only pled not guilty, but is denying any sexual activity took place. His version of events in the police report are that he went to his desk, got what he needed (documents) and left. They entered P H at 1:48 am, how long after did he leave?

Higgins claims she was asleep when the alleged assault began and awoke during and repeatedly said no. Higgins claims she had her dress scrunched up when found by security, security claims she was naked. Security checked on her several times. Higgins did not leave P H until 10am, over 8 hours after arriving.

CCTV footage/records surely must identify the time the accused left P H. If he was there for sometime, then why did he lie in his police report? If he was there for a very short period, then would he have had time to commit what he is being accused of? If Higgins was passed out, and he hadn't raped her, why wouldn't he ask security to help her into a cab?

8 hours is a long time to be in the office, what time did security first find her? and did they let her 'sleep it off? Why would she be naked if there was no sexual activity.

This will be interesting, I can see three possible scenarios.

The accused's intentions that night were simply to obtain what he needed from the office, get back in the cab with Higgins and continue to their respective homes. Higgins tried to instigate a sexual encounter by undressing herself, she was intoxicated, the accused rejected her advances and left, she lay down and passed out. This seem very unlikely.

The accused raped Higgins who was either too intoxicated to consent, or verbally tried to resist the attack. This seems the most plausible, but there are a lot of gaps given the accused has denied sexual activity and stated he was there for a short period.

Higgins passed out on the couch and at some stage in a drunken stupor undressed herself, maybe she sleeps naked at home and was confused where she was. She has woken up confused and assumed the worst given a black out of memory. The accused didn't alert security when he left because he was concerned for his employment.

Whether or not anymore alcohol was consumed/available in P H may have a bearing on a verdict.

I am looking forward to hearing the evidence.
 
Nice Swan Brother said:
Very interesting trial.

The accused has not only pled not guilty, but is denying any sexual activity took place. His version of events in the police report are that he went to his desk, got what he needed (documents) and left. They entered P H at 1:48 am, how long after did he leave?

Higgins claims she was asleep when the alleged assault began and awoke during and repeatedly said no. Higgins claims she had her dress scrunched up when found by security, security claims she was naked. Security checked on her several times. Higgins did not leave P H until 10am, over 8 hours after arriving.

CCTV footage/records surely must identify the time the accused left P H. If he was there for sometime, then why did he lie in his police report? If he was there for a very short period, then would he have had time to commit what he is being accused of? If Higgins was passed out, and he hadn't raped her, why wouldn't he ask security to help her into a cab?

8 hours is a long time to be in the office, what time did security first find her? and did they let her 'sleep it off? Why would she be naked if there was no sexual activity.

This will be interesting, I can see three possible scenarios.

The accused's intentions that night were simply to obtain what he needed from the office, get back in the cab with Higgins and continue to their respective homes. Higgins tried to instigate a sexual encounter by undressing herself, she was intoxicated, the accused rejected her advances and left, she lay down and passed out. This seem very unlikely.

The accused raped Higgins who was either too intoxicated to consent, or verbally tried to resist the attack. This seems the most plausible, but there are a lot of gaps given the accused has denied sexual activity and stated he was there for a short period.

Higgins passed out on the couch and at some stage in a drunken stupor undressed herself, maybe she sleeps naked at home and was confused where she was. She has woken up confused and assumed the worst given a black out of memory. The accused didn't alert security when he left because he was concerned for his employment.

Whether or not anymore alcohol was consumed/available in P H may have a bearing on a verdict.

I am looking forward to hearing the evidence.
Click to expand...
His only defence can be that no sexual activity took place. I think it will be up to her to prove that it did. Witness? Forensic evidence? Admission?
 
Lady O said:
His only defence can be that no sexual activity took place. I think it will be up to her to prove that it did. Witness? Forensic evidence? Admission?
Click to expand...
In the context of denial of any sexual activity, would spending a period of time in a room with a women that was intoxicated on arrival and later found passed out and naked be considered circumstantial?
 
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