The Angry Thread

[morris086]

Well the sight of Brett Burton at my cousins 50th last night made me a little angry... but thought best not to let him know my personal thoughts... & any way he had protection of Roo, Goody, Callinan, Reilly & Dogga.

Wonder if the rumours on Goody are true or he just flew in for the night...

How's Callinan doing?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How's Callinan doing?

Looking healthy still.

Think he is coaching in the country.

 

[cmndstab]

This is putting you dangerously close to 'fairweather supporter' status.

You do realise it's the same board and administration that oversee the women, yeah?

Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

Yes, I am aware of basic facts, thank you. I am also aware that the demands and level of professionalism required to manage an AFLW team are vastly different than for an AFL team at this stage. That's probably why I prefer watching AFLW at the moment. It feels less clinical, less exacting, less robotic. It's just a bunch of athletic women pouring their hearts into the sport. It's a joy to watch.

I'm not really interested in trying to prove my supporter bona fides. I made a decision a while back that I wasn't going to let football dictate whether I spend the weekend miserable or not. I still support and follow the team, but it's tough to keep your passion up when it feels like the team is being poorly led by those up top, and there's no transparency and only the most minimal accountability. I have no actual ability to impact the team's performance, and the club has made it clear that they are dismissive of my opinion at best, and outright contemptuous of it at worst. My primary engagement with footy is here on Bigfooty, and I get no pleasure out of reading pages of negative comments. So yes, after years of poor performances and seeing very little change, I have found myself disengaging with the club. I'll most likely get enthused again when (if?) we start playing some decent footy again. If that makes me a fairweather supporter then so be it. I've got too many other things in my life to worry about.

 

[ftmch]

Yes, I am aware of basic facts, thank you. I am also aware that the demands and level of professionalism required to manage an AFLW team are vastly different than for an AFL team at this stage. That's probably why I prefer watching AFLW at the moment. It feels less clinical, less exacting, less robotic. It's just a bunch of athletic women pouring their hearts into the sport. It's a joy to watch.

I'm not really interested in trying to prove my supporter bona fides. I made a decision a while back that I wasn't going to let football dictate whether I spend the weekend miserable or not. I still support and follow the team, but it's tough to keep your passion up when it feels like the team is being poorly led by those up top, and there's no transparency and only the most minimal accountability. I have no actual ability to impact the team's performance, and the club has made it clear that they are dismissive of my opinion at best, and outright contemptuous of it at worst. My primary engagement with footy is here on Bigfooty, and I get no pleasure out of reading pages of negative comments. So yes, after years of poor performances and seeing very little change, I have found myself disengaging with the club. I'll most likely get enthused again when (if?) we start playing some decent footy again. If that makes me a fairweather supporter then so be it. I've got too many other things in my life to worry about.

Sorry, I just don't understand people who tie the strength of their support to the quality of the people in the boardroom. Fagan, Burton, Roo, Chapman - none of those guys are the club in my eyes. The guersey and the collective of supporters (including us) who call the team ours is 'the club'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as disillusioned with anyone with some of the admin level decisions made in the last few years, and completely understand the impact it has on our fortunes. But I can and do make a distinction between the administration, and the club as a whole, that latter of which will get my support rain, hail or shine.

 

[cmndstab]

Sorry, I just don't understand people who tie the strength of their support to the quality of the people in the boardroom. Fagan, Burton, Roo, Chapman - none of those guys are the club in my eyes. The guersey and the collective of supporters (including us) who call the team ours is 'the club'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as disillusioned with anyone with some of the admin level decisions made in the last few years, and completely understand the impact it has on our fortunes. But I can and do make a distinction between the administration, and the club as a whole, that latter of which will get my support rain, hail or shine.

It sounds to me like we're quibbling over terminology here. Obviously I still support the club. I love the players and I love the guernsey. But the level of enthusiasm one can have towards the club is not a choice between "supporter" and "not supporter". I'm less enthused about the club because of the poor decisions that have been made that have resulted in the players, the guernsey, the supporter base and the club itself all suffering. That doesn't mean I switch teams, or switch codes. But I'm less excited about following them. Ultimately, after years of disappointment, I just don't care quite as much when they lose as I used to. Of course, I get that that probably means that I'll also not get quite as big a thrill when they are eventually successful as well. That's just the way it is. I still consider myself a supporter, even if I often wait until after the match to see if we won before deciding whether I'll bother to invest two hours of my time and emotions watching it.

Unfortunately, in an elite environment, you can't really separate the club from the administrators involved. They have such a crucial impact on the fortunes of the club. They are an enormous part of the club. I wouldn't mind so much if there was more transparency and accountability. I generally assume that everyone, from Burton to Roo to Chapman to Trigg is trying their best. Sometimes your best isn't good enough. When a player demonstrates over a long period of time that they're just not quite good enough, they get dropped, or even replaced entirely. Our administrators control everything that happens in the club, from the strategic direction, to the hiring of coaches and fitness staff, to the fan engagement, and yet they don't seem to be held to the same standards, or even any real standards at all. It took for the wheels to fall off entirely before we even had any kind of review, and even then us supporters never got to see anything from the review itself despite assurances that we would.

Does that mean I want the team to win any less than I did before? No. Does it mean that I have less emotional investment in their fortunes as I did before? Yes.

 

[rocket18]

It sounds to me like we're quibbling over terminology here. Obviously I still support the club. I love the players and I love the guernsey. But the level of enthusiasm one can have towards the club is not a choice between "supporter" and "not supporter". I'm less enthused about the club because of the poor decisions that have been made that have resulted in the players, the guernsey, the supporter base and the club itself all suffering. That doesn't mean I switch teams, or switch codes. But I'm less excited about following them. Ultimately, after years of disappointment, I just don't care quite as much when they lose as I used to. Of course, I get that that probably means that I'll also not get quite as big a thrill when they are eventually successful as well. That's just the way it is. I still consider myself a supporter, even if I often wait until after the match to see if we won before deciding whether I'll bother to invest two hours of my time and emotions watching it.

Unfortunately, in an elite environment, you can't really separate the club from the administrators involved. They have such a crucial impact on the fortunes of the club. They are an enormous part of the club. I wouldn't mind so much if there was more transparency and accountability. I generally assume that everyone, from Burton to Roo to Chapman to Trigg is trying their best. Sometimes your best isn't good enough. When a player demonstrates over a long period of time that they're just not quite good enough, they get dropped, or even replaced entirely. Our administrators control everything that happens in the club, from the strategic direction, to the hiring of coaches and fitness staff, to the fan engagement, and yet they don't seem to be held to the same standards, or even any real standards at all. It took for the wheels to fall off entirely before we even had any kind of review, and even then us supporters never got to see anything from the review itself despite assurances that we would.

Does that mean I want the team to win any less than I did before? No. Does it mean that I have less emotional investment in their fortunes as I did before? Yes.

A couple of great posts, you've put into words a lot of how I feel.

Add in the AFL incompetence/bias against the non-Vic sides, the horrible umpiring standard, the pro-Victoria media bias and you get a general disengagement from the game.

I was as diehard as any AFL footy fan could be (watching 7 or 8 games a weekend) but over the last decade+ I've drifted further and further away from AFL (add in the ridiculous dilution of talent and the negative gameplans) its no wonder people are embracing their local comp - in my case Div 1 ammos, Go Goody Saints!!

 

[Big Crow]

A couple of great posts, you've put into words a lot of how I feel.

Add in the AFL incompetence/bias against the non-Vic sides, the horrible umpiring standard, the pro-Victoria media bias and you get a general disengagement from the game.

I was as diehard as any AFL footy fan could be (watching 7 or 8 games a weekend) but over the last decade+ I've drifted further and further away from AFL (add in the ridiculous dilution of talent and the negative gameplans) its no wonder people are embracing their local comp - in my case Div 1 ammos, Go Goody Saints!!

I’ve been following the club and the league as a 6-9 game per week die hard for the past 25 years, but increasingly I’m feeling the same way as you.

Even when we’re good, it is so difficult for a non-Victorian team to actually win the whole thing. It is clear the league don’t want us to ever win it - “Don’t believe in never” as a slogan is almost insulting. Our history in the last 20 years of competitive but never good enough suited AFL House perfectly.

Like an increasing number of fans outside Victoria I’m disillusioned, disengaged, disinterested.

Coincidentally, also under the Goody Saints flag. Might see you around the new club rooms.

 

[1970crow]

A couple of great posts, you've put into words a lot of how I feel.

Add in the AFL incompetence/bias against the non-Vic sides, the horrible umpiring standard, the pro-Victoria media bias and you get a general disengagement from the game.

I was as diehard as any AFL footy fan could be (watching 7 or 8 games a weekend) but over the last decade+ I've drifted further and further away from AFL (add in the ridiculous dilution of talent and the negative gameplans) its no wonder people are embracing their local comp - in my case Div 1 ammos, Go Goody Saints!!

I was the same, watched nearly every game each weekend. I'd only miss a Crows game live for very important events that I couldn't get out of. Now, I don't care whether I watch them or not. If I'm home, I'll still watch them 100%, but I don't care any more if I'm home for them or not.

 

[WetCrow1991]

Was just thinking about the Crows 2016 AFL season. What a complete failure. Multiple chokes during the season to see us miss out on top 4 with 16 wins. Forward line was performing better than 2017. We had a better shot at it that year especially when considering the opposition.

We finish top 4 that year we probably end up playing Sydney or GWS in the Grand final and we have a more than even chance of winning.

We win the flag in 2016, we don't go after Gibbs.

Still waiting for that month of pride Walker promised before the finals.

 

[Canuck_Crow]

I was the same, watched nearly every game each weekend. I'd only miss a Crows game live for very important events that I couldn't get out of. Now, I don't care whether I watch them or not. If I'm home, I'll still watch them 100%, but I don't care any more if I'm home for them or not.

I think this is the big issue with the club, they treat the supporters as mushrooms. any one with half a brain could realize half way through 2018 that the club would never reach the same heights as 2017. but they still bloody doubled down on a core that failed at the last hurdle. I would be 100X more excited if the club had the balls to say we screwed up, it didnt work but now we are rebuilding with youth and passion, there will be pain but it will lead to something. but no we are still talking about bloody mackay, or how sloane is training harder. they need to let the old guard die and promote a new breed, but it feels like we are just rehashing the failures of before and for me that takes away any excitement.

 

[Vhaluus]

Sorry, I just don't understand people who tie the strength of their support to the quality of the people in the boardroom. Fagan, Burton, Roo, Chapman - none of those guys are the club in my eyes. The guersey and the collective of supporters (including us) who call the team ours is 'the club'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as disillusioned with anyone with some of the admin level decisions made in the last few years, and completely understand the impact it has on our fortunes. But I can and do make a distinction between the administration, and the club as a whole, that latter of which will get my support rain, hail or shine.

The club sees us as customers, not part of itself.

 

[jackster83]

The club sees us as customers, not part of itself.

Maybe we should stop giving them money then.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Yes, I am aware of basic facts, thank you. I am also aware that the demands and level of professionalism required to manage an AFLW team are vastly different than for an AFL team at this stage. That's probably why I prefer watching AFLW at the moment. It feels less clinical, less exacting, less robotic. It's just a bunch of athletic women pouring their hearts into the sport. It's a joy to watch.

I'm not really interested in trying to prove my supporter bona fides. I made a decision a while back that I wasn't going to let football dictate whether I spend the weekend miserable or not. I still support and follow the team, but it's tough to keep your passion up when it feels like the team is being poorly led by those up top, and there's no transparency and only the most minimal accountability. I have no actual ability to impact the team's performance, and the club has made it clear that they are dismissive of my opinion at best, and outright contemptuous of it at worst. My primary engagement with footy is here on Bigfooty, and I get no pleasure out of reading pages of negative comments. So yes, after years of poor performances and seeing very little change, I have found myself disengaging with the club. I'll most likely get enthused again when (if?) we start playing some decent footy again. If that makes me a fairweather supporter then so be it. I've got too many other things in my life to worry about.

You’ve changed

 

[Slippery Pete]

The club sees us as customers, not part of itself.

You’d see two very different football clubs if all the board positions at AFC and PAFC were member-elected.

It’d be the most anti-Adelaide thing ever done in the history of Adelaide. (The city I mean)

 

[Canuck_Crow]

You’d see two very different football clubs if all the board positions at AFC and PAFC were member-elected.

It’d be the most anti-Adelaide thing ever done in the history of Adelaide. (The city I mean)

im not sure BF crows supporters would be very happy with a member elected board at the start, it would be a more refined version of SA politics. i feel it would have to crash a burn before a more organic and passionate group would come up.

 

[Interloperer]

Purely anecdotal here. But, I've known multiple lifelong Crows supporters who, over the arc of the Adelaide Oval era have gone from "I'm going to finally make the step up to membership/gold membership/some absurd higher tier" to not renewing memberships to "I'll watch it if it's on... maybe."

All this happened pre-covid too.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yes, I am aware of basic facts, thank you. I am also aware that the demands and level of professionalism required to manage an AFLW team are vastly different than for an AFL team at this stage. That's probably why I prefer watching AFLW at the moment. It feels less clinical, less exacting, less robotic. It's just a bunch of athletic women pouring their hearts into the sport. It's a joy to watch.

I'm not really interested in trying to prove my supporter bona fides. I made a decision a while back that I wasn't going to let football dictate whether I spend the weekend miserable or not. I still support and follow the team, but it's tough to keep your passion up when it feels like the team is being poorly led by those up top, and there's no transparency and only the most minimal accountability. I have no actual ability to impact the team's performance, and the club has made it clear that they are dismissive of my opinion at best, and outright contemptuous of it at worst. My primary engagement with footy is here on Bigfooty, and I get no pleasure out of reading pages of negative comments. So yes, after years of poor performances and seeing very little change, I have found myself disengaging with the club. I'll most likely get enthused again when (if?) we start playing some decent footy again. If that makes me a fairweather supporter then so be it. I've got too many other things in my life to worry about.

Firstly, I agree with your assessment of AFLW. There is just something raw about it that makes it exciting. It just goes to show perhaps just how over coached the mens teams are.

Secondly, well with John Olsen and the new CEO coming in I suspect it will be a good cultural change. John is implementing nearly all the recommendations from the internal review as far as whats rumoured which can only be a good thing. The only one left now from the 2015 to 2020 days is Roo. It wouldn't surprise me if we see less of Roo. He no doubt got way too hands on as a board member and stuck his nose in way to far. Probably due to Fagen not being a football person. Hopefully this all changes.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Purely anecdotal here. But, I've known multiple lifelong Crows supporters who, over the arc of the Adelaide Oval era have gone from "I'm going to finally make the step up to membership/gold membership/some absurd higher tier" to not renewing memberships to "I'll watch it if it's on... maybe."

All this happened pre-covid too.

I think there is an element of frustration with Adelaide Oval. The train service after games is a joke and not to mention the footbridge being totally inadequate all combined with the festival theatre and casino works is not good. It really sucks the life out of you to deal with all that. Some games it takes an hour and a half to get home. So if its a 3:20 sunday afternoon game, in the old days youd be home by 7pm at the latest whereas now it edges 8pm. The ground is great, the pregame is great but after the game its an afterthought with little care factor. Plus delayed telecasts in the age of social media are done. Im not interested in watching them. Combine everything with the performance of the team currently, people lose interest. Success will get people watching and renew their interest. Its all relative.

 

[Murray2503]

I think the truth is that the happy clappers deep down know that we're not going to pull this off quickly. That we're going to be one of those death spiral clubs that ends up having to rebuild to fix a botched rebuild upon botched rebuild. This could be a decades long sink Melbourne style.

We're already most of the way into that spiral, with a need to draft to replace recent top picks and senior players still to work out of the clu

That's why they want no criticism now, no expectation for signs that we've recruited correctly etc. Because they know worse is to come, and if the heat starts now, imagine just how ugly things might get.

Until they get rid of Roo we will continue down the Carlton path. Even if they do finally manage to pry his incompetent ass outta there it will still take 7-10 years to recover from his destruction. This is what happens when you hand over the club to a halfwit. I hope we learn a valuable lesson to never make the same mistake again.

 

[Vhaluus]

Until they get rid of Roo we will continue down the Carlton path. Even if they do finally manage to pry his incompetent ass outta there it will still take 7-10 years to recover from his destruction. This is what happens when you hand over the club to a halfwit. I hope we learn a valuable lesson to never make the same mistake again.

The number of examples of great players coming back to their club in another capacity and doing huge damage far exceed the examples of a great player coming back and making a positive contribution.

 

[cmndstab]

You’ve changed

At least one of us has, mate

 

[Scorpus]

In the entire time Rob Champan was chairman, we finished in the top 4 twice.

His "make the 8 and anything can happen" mantra didn't work either, given we finished outside the 8 seven times

 

[BrissyCrow]

I know you're a respected member of this board, Deaneus! but this is a serious 'Old man yells at clouds' moment for you. Absolute snooze-fest.

We're heading in the right direction, have made a multitude of positive changes, and have a young group that's building nicely.

Don't join the masses of disillusioned pessimists living in the past that continue plague this board in ever-increasing numbers.

Its hard not living in the past when the s**t has continued for so long. I understand your optimism about heading in the right direction but there are still underlying issues that haven't been clarified. I for one want to see the club come clean about the past issues so that individuals can be held accountable and to ensure we dont make those same mistakes again. #deaneus said that we were promised a full review of the Tippetgate outcome but we never got that. We were promised a transparent review of the camo and the internal issues of the club and we never got that. Its like the board is made of teflon.

I will admit we are seeing a change in communications from the club. So far I have seen a preparedness to be upfront and more open with issues so that is a step in the right direction. Lets hope that this year there is a noticeable improvement with the players and lets see if the club can stop the movement of players out of the club. MaCasey could tell us if changes have been made.

I have given the club the benefit of the doubt and renewed my membership this year. All I ask is that the club keeps us members in the forefront of its mind and that we show improvement.

 

[relapse]

I still lay the blame firmly and squarely at the feet of Trigg.

A dead set dud who only ever should have been a transitional CEO, but ended up staying a decade past his use by date.

The only notable thing he ever achieved was sending our club spiralling backwards financially.

There's a whole host of poor decisions that were made under Triggs watch, but the biggest and most glaring was that he essentially turned the most profitable and financially powerful club in the AFL into a mediocre club that had started posting financial losses.

If it wasn't for the Tippett saga I would hate to think what would have eventually happened to our club because I would bet my bottom dollar that he still would have been there today stinking the place up.

 

[MRB37]

I still lay the blame firmly and squarely at the feet of Trigg.

A dead set dud who only ever should have been an transitional CEO, but ended up staying a decade past his use by date.

The only notable thing he ever achieved was sending our club spiralling backwards financially.

There's a whole host of poor decisions that were made under Triggs watch, but the biggest and most glaring was that he essentially turned the most profitable and financially powerful club in the AFL into a mediocre club that had started posting financial losses.

If it wasn't for the Tippett saga I would hate to think that would have eventually happened to our club because I would bet my bottom dollar that he still would have been there today stinking the place up.

We were better than Port, so everything was hunky dory. Of course a 5 year old could have gone door knocking and asked people for spare change and outperformed Port in those years.

I understand why people will bag Fagan, he at least had some higher goals.