The Anti Frodo Establishment - Celebrating Single Parents

[Funk Bunny]

I am intelligent and open minded person capable of anything I put my mind to. I am not prone to any sort of judgemental behaviour unlike the way you appear in your intolerant posts. You speak of being pre-programmed yet the views you continue to verbalise and ultimately backflip on are of a pre-programmed nature. I'm not going to waste a post on negative points about you. Instead I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all the single mothers/fathers out there who strive every day to bring up their children the best they can. I'm a single mother, I work three jobs, study at uni and spend atleast three full days a week with my child (how many did you spend with your children - young and now, three days per child ? I doubt it). I respect every single parent out there, workers and stay at home parents. The future of our great country will be children raised by single parents so I take solace in knowing that views such as Frodo's will be bred out. In the immortal words of the great bard "Lend me your ears". Let us celebrate single parents and tell the success stories of single parents here on this post and defeat Frodo's views with inspirational evidence.

 

[BJ]

I just reakon yay for all the parents out there doing a good job and who are raising their child with good attitudes and perspectives on life....single or double (lol) parents...good stuff!
BJ

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Eagles Rock!Go Ben and Jaxon!

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Funk Bunny:
I am intelligent and open minded person capable of anything I put my mind to. I am not prone to any sort of judgemental behaviour unlike the way you appear in your intolerant posts. You speak of being pre-programmed yet the views you continue to verbalise and ultimately backflip on are of a pre-programmed nature. I'm not going to waste a post on negative points about you. Instead I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all the single mothers/fathers out there who strive every day to bring up their children the best they can. I'm a single mother, I work three jobs, study at uni and spend atleast three full days a week with my child (how many did you spend with your children - young and now, three days per child ? I doubt it). I respect every single parent out there, workers and stay at home parents. The future of our great country will be children raised by single parents so I take solace in knowing that views such as Frodo's will be bred out. In the immortal words of the great bard "Lend me your ears". Let us celebrate single parents and tell the success stories of single parents here on this post and defeat Frodo's views with inspirational evidence.

One of the most basic facts about human behaviour is that no-one is capable of making another person angry or upset. The choice to be angry or upset is yours and yours alone.
If you are called a 'green nosed giraffe' you dismiss it immediately and choose not to be upset. It is only when another person triggers your personal beliefs about yourself being bad that you choose to be angry and react. In your post that is exactly the situation you are in. You feel bad about yourself and need to hurt the person who triggered your choice to feel bad about yourself. Believe me that despite your mistakes, and we all make them, you have no need to be angry with yourself. Accept yourself and learn to love yourself. IMO

 

[BJ]

Frodo,
I don’t believe that Funk Bunny is in a ‘green nosed giraffe’ situation.
Your analysis on anger is all well and good but it is not really the point is it? Whether you made Funk Bunny angry or if she is angry based on a choice is not really the issue. Funk Bunny saw what you wrote about single parents and has disagreed with you and so has decided to write a post in reply to the topic. Frodo, in your post you degraded single parents, Funk Bunny obviously did not like what you wrote and so based on her own opinions she has written a post giving single parents a pat on the back. This does not mean that she feels bad about herself, she chose to feel angry at what is written because she has a different opinion. Every time you get angry about something is it because you feel bad about yourself? I doubt it.
You may find it hard to believe but it’s not always about you. Her post isn’t about you; it’s about her view on single parents.
I do not think that Funk Bunny has made any mistake. In fact I can’t see anywhere in her post where she has said that you made her angry. What I do see in her post is that because of what you have written she feels the need to stand up for her beliefs. Your not the only one who has the right to state their beliefs are you? All I see is exactly what I saw in the post you made which was based on this topic. The only difference is the opinion.
I don’t think that Funk Bunny needs to accept and learn to love herself, It seems she already has a healthy opinion of herself. (Funk Bunny “I am intelligent and open minded person capable of anything I put my mind to”) Doesn’t sound like a person who doesn’t accept herself to me.
To me Frodo, it seems like a person who has a different opinion to you.
BJ

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Eagles Rock!Go Ben and Jaxon!

 

[sandie]

BJ
You should know by now that anyone who disagrees with frodo's views, he automatically considers them as being maladjusted, lower class, or stupid. He just can't stand people not thinking his views are right.
Funk Bunny I congratulate you on your excellent post.
Cheers

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mantis

 

[BJ]

maladjusted?...good word, i like it! learn something new everyday.

EAAAAAGGGLEEEESSS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Eagles Rock!Go Ben and Jaxon!

 

[magpie_joffa]

Well im sorry to be a social outcast cause i am a single parent,so i guess it means im a lazy good for nothing welfare recipient who is bleeding this country dry im sorry if you all find this offensive,I dont want sympathy i just want people to understand that sometimes things happen in life in which one has no control.

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There are only two kinds of people in this world-COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTERS,and those who wish they were!
SHITE here comes COLLINGWOOD to kick your ass forever BLACK AND WHITE,ha ha ha jealousy will be the death of you,SHITE!!!!!

 

[Darky]

You must be really horrible Joffa, you should be shot!

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Defy Gravity - Embrace Gravity - Transcend Gravity... Become The Sound...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Frodo, this is not a case of you triggering something in people that they already feel bad about. This is a case of somebody TRYING to make others feel bad and those people standing pride and shouting back "we will not go quietly without a fight!!!"

Some people would like to think that if they made a statement and nobody voices their disapproval then they are right. People here are just saving you from making a delusional assumption. Aren't they nice?

 

[Gonzo]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's:

Some people would like to think that if they made a statement and nobody voices their disapproval then they are right. People here are just saving you from making a delusional assumption. Aren't they nice?

Top quote ODN, could apply this to a heap of posts on this board!!


Cheers

Gonzo

 

[The invisible mullet]

well said Funk Bunny!

 

[Crow54]

BJ your post of 19/1/01 at 3.12 a.m. is one of the most articulate and well written posts I've seen on these Boards! More please.

 

[Frodo]

I'm sure the forum has read enough of this issue but I will append my answers.

Originally posted by BJ:
Frodo,
I don’t believe that Funk Bunny is in a ‘green nosed giraffe’ situation.
Your analysis on anger is all well and good but it is not really the point is it? Whether you made Funk Bunny angry or if she is angry based on a choice is not really the issue. Funk Bunny saw what you wrote about single parents and has disagreed with you and so has decided to write a post in reply to the topic.

TO WRITE A NEW TOPIC WITH SUCH A SUBJECT TITLE CAN ONLY BE A REACTION BASED UPON ANGER, AND THAT ANGER IS BASED UPON THE WRITER HAVING THEIR BELIEF SYSTEM TRIGERRED. FOR THE TRIGGER TO RESULT IN ANGER IT MEANS THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE BAD IN THE WAY OF THE TRIGGER. THE INPUT CAN THEREFORE BE CONSIDERED TO BE NOTHING MORE THAN AN ATTEMPT TO PACIFY THOSE BAD FEELINGS RESULTING FROM AN ERRONEOUS BELIEF.

Frodo, in your post you degraded single parents, Funk Bunny obviously did not like what you wrote and so based on her own opinions she has written a post giving single parents a pat on the back.

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW I HAVE DEGRADED SINGLE PARENTS! GIVE ME FACTS ABOUT WHAT I SAID THAT WAS DEGRADING.
FUNK BUNNY REACTED TO PAIN BROUGHT ABOUT BY HER BELIEFS AND TRIED TO INFLICT PAIN ON ME BY HER POST BUT IT WAS HER CHOICE TO GET ANGRY NOT MINE. THE REACTION WAS INAPPROPRIATE. THE SUBSEQUENT PATTING ON THE BACK OF OTHERS IN SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES WAS A VERY SELFISH ACT THAT ATTEMPTED TO PACIFY HER OWN SELF INFLICTED PAIN. OF COURSE IT ACTED AS A RE-INFORCER TO THE BELIEF SYSTEMS OF OTHERS AND THEY NATURALLY REACTED IN A PREDICTABLE FASHION.
This does not mean that she feels bad about herself, she chose to feel angry at what is written because she has a different opinion. Every time you get angry about something is it because you feel bad about yourself? I doubt it.
IN FACT YOU SHOULDN'T DOUBT IT. EVERY TIME YOU GET ANGRY IT IS BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO. IF YOU CHALLENGED YOUR BELIEFS ON THE SUBJECT INVOLVED AND HARBOURED NO ILL FEELINGS TOWARDS YOURSELF ON THE SUBJECT THEN YOU WOULD NOT GET ANGRY.

NEXT TIME YOU GET ANGRY TRY WORKING OUT THE UNDERLYING BELIEFS THAT MADE YOU CHOOSE TO BE ANGRY.
You may find it hard to believe but it’s not always about you. Her post isn’t about you;
COME ON BJ. READ THE THREAD TITLE AGAIN.
it’s about her view on single parents.

I do not think that Funk Bunny has made any mistake.
MAYBE YOU DON'T, BUT SHE DOES!
In fact I can’t see anywhere in her post where she has said that you made her angry.
HER WHOLE POST IS A REACTION TO ANGER

What I do see in her post is that because of what you have written she feels the need to stand up for her beliefs.
EXACTLY, HER BELIEFS HAVE BEEN TRIGGERED AND SHE IS REACTING. THAT IS NORMAL.

Your not the only one who has the right to state their beliefs are you?
I CERTAINLY AM NOT. MOST PEOPLE DO ON THIS FORUM AND OTHERS LIKE IT.

All I see is exactly what I saw in the post you made which was based on this topic. The only difference is the opinion.

TRUE, BUT THE FOLLOW ON IS HOW WE REACT TO OPINIONS THAT TRIGGER SELF HATE BECAUSE IRRATIONAL BELIEFS ARE CHALLENGED.
I don’t think that Funk Bunny needs to accept and learn to love herself, It seems she already has a healthy opinion of herself. (Funk Bunny “I am intelligent and open minded person capable of anything I put my mind to”) Doesn’t sound like a person who doesn’t accept herself to me.
WELL I DONT KNOW HER BUT THAT STATEMENT IS TAUGHT BY MANY PSYCCHOLOGISTS TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE SELF ESTEEM PROBLEMS. i CAN GIVE YOU A DOZEN MORE LIKE IT.
To me Frodo, it seems like a person who has a different opinion to you.

OF COURSE SHE DOES. IT IS HARDLY LIKELY THAT I COULD TRIGGER SUCH A REACTION AND GET EMPATHY!
BJ

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's:
Frodo, this is not a case of you triggering something in people that they already feel bad about.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

This is a case of somebody TRYING to make others feel bad and those people standing pride and shouting back "we will not go quietly without a fight!!!"

NO IT IS NOT. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO MAKE ANOTHER PERSON FEEL BAD. SO WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF TRYING. ONLY YOU CAN CHOOSE HOW TO FEEL. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FEEL ANGRY AND ATTACK THE PERSON WHO TRIGGERED YOUR SELF BELIEFS THEN THAT IS UP TO YOU TOO. IT HAPPENS MILLIONS OF TIMES A DAY AROUND THE WORLD. BUT CONSIDERING WHETHER YOUR REACTION IS APPROPRIATE AND WHY IT HAS OCCURRED IS A VERY GOOD IDEA BECAUSE THE TRIGGER HAS CAUSED YOU TO DECIDE TO FEEL BAD AND TO REACT IN AN INAPROPRIATE FASHION. from THE MOMENY OF TRIGER ON YOU FEEL HORRIBLE INSIDE. ANALYSE YOURSLF WHEN YOU ARE ANGRY, IS IT ENJOYABLE? NO, IT IS NOT. YET YOU ARE CHOOSING TO FEEL HORRIBLE. AND IF YOU WORK OUT WHICH FALSE BELIEF YOU HAVE THAT HAS BEEN TRIGGERED YOU CAN RID YOURSELF OF THAT PAIN FOREVER.
Some people would like to think that if they made a statement and nobody voices their disapproval then they are right.
RATIONAL DEBATE IS EDUCATIONAL. EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IS RARELY SO. I LOVE RATIONAL DEBATE. I LOVE TO REGOGNISE WRONG BELIEFS MYSELF, THAT WAY I LEARN.

ONE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT PEOPLE OFTEN DO NOT EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS. THEY STAY SILENT FOR FEAR OF ABUSE AND REJECTION THAT THEY KNOW WILL ACT AS TRIGGERS TO THEMSELVES AND MAKE THEM CONFRONT THEIR BELIEFS.


People here are just saving you from making a delusional assumption. Aren't they nice?

DELUSION IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY AND ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN GOOD. SO GOOD IS IN EVERY PERSON ALTHOUGH OFTEN MASKED BY MISTAKEN BELIEFS AND COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS THAT CAN MASK THEIR HEARTS.

 

[McKenna for PM]

Funk Bunny,

Whilst my opinions on this issue are a little different to that of yourself and others, I just want to say that I have nothing but respect for what you are managing to do. But please don't disregard the importance of others in your life, though. Having someone to talk to and spend some time with is also a really good thing, in my opinion.

Cheers mate.

 

[Carey_is_King]

I have tried to stay out of this, but I would now like to make a small point,viz;
Is it not fair to put single parents into 2 categories (if I may),
Those who choose to be single parents,or are unduly careless, and milk the welfare system for all it's worth. For them I have nothing but contempt.
and
Those who, through circumstances which they may not completely control, end up as single parents. These people often work very hard and sacrifice a lot to give their child the best they can afford and in my opinion they are to be admired. I agree with Frodo, that a "normal" family environment is the preferred option, but reality often dictates otherwise.

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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Carey_is_King:
I have tried to stay out of this, but I would now like to make a small point,viz;
Is it not fair to put single parents into 2 categories (if I may),
Those who choose to be single parents,or are unduly careless, and milk the welfare system for all it's worth. For them I have nothing but contempt.
and
Those who, through circumstances which they may not completely control, end up as single parents. These people often work very hard and sacrifice a lot to give their child the best they can afford and in my opinion they are to be admired. I agree with Frodo, that a "normal" family environment is the preferred option, but reality often dictates otherwise.

I think that you are spot on CIK.

 

[WA]

I wasn't going to add to this one as I think I said my piece in the thread that started all this! but..
I haven't got time at present to go back and read them all again, I will over the next few days, but Frodo, you now see to be agreeing with or understanding the points everyone has been making previously - one of them being that no 2 situations are the same and single parenthood is often an unavoidable and unfortunate part of life.

Fortunately, I am not a single parent. I can only comment from watching a friend who is and wonder how the hell she copes with it all!

 

[ptw]

Frodo

I have never read so much crap in all my life.

You judge a society not by the standard of the richest person but of the poorest.

The welfare cheats as you call them would make up 0.0000001% of single parents.

You also fail to see the bigger picture. I assume you agree that we need a level of a public health system for those who cannot afford private insurance. The biggest correleation with good health is income (the poorer you are the sicker you get). Denying single parents (however they got that way) welfare simply increase the burden on other parts of the tax payer funded systems.

Similarly with unemployment. If you make parents so poor that they cannot adequately look after their children then chances are those children will not be able to compete in the job market and will be more likely to become unemployed themselves....again increasing their dependancy on the welfare system.

So denying welfare payments to single parents is the most short sighted, expensive, gross abuse of tax payer money I can think of (well not quite but it is up there).

This "bugger you...I'm alright" attitude went out with the Ark....move into the '50s.

ptw

 

[TigerTank]

Originally posted by ptw:


The welfare cheats as you call them would make up 0.0000001% of single parents.

ptw

Now that is a very interesting statistic.

Where did you find that one? The ABS? Morgan Gallup Poll perhaps?

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TT - Obligatory bad-tempered Richmond supporter

[This message has been edited by TigerTank (edited 19 January 2001).]

 

[ptw]

common sense TT

being a single parent is probably the most demanding role in society....

the thought of someone actually choosing to do that to get $63 p.w. or whatever the pityful amount is, and then spending $59 of it on the child anyway (if not $75) is beyond me.

Single parent welfare cheats are generally a fabrication of the anti-welfare lobby.

Dole bludgers - yep a few of those about...tax avoiders...yep...single parents...a bit far fetched for me.

ptw

 

[TigerTank]

I don't know if that's completely true ptw.

It would be extremely unfair to accuse all single parents of being 'sinners'.

But we shouldn't pretend they are all 'saints' either.

The truth of the matter (as it usually is) is somewhere closer to the middle.

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TT - Obligatory bad-tempered Richmond supporter

 

[Bluey]

On anger (and anger alone):

Frodo I do not know which psych text book you have been reading, but I assume it's an old one you found by accident, or an advanced one you do not quite understand.

People choose to be angry for more reasons than just feeling bad about themselves.

They can, for instance, get angry because you have TRIED to make others feel badly towards them. They can get angry because they are TIRED of having to stick up for themselves and hope that a display of anger will cause their opponent to back down and silence anybody who witnesses the anger.

People show their emotions in many different ways, from instinct and learned behaviour.

You have a very shallow idea about an emotion as complex as anger. Anger can be a valid expression or it can be totally misplaced.

Try a few books on this area:
- Animal Models of Human Emotion and Cognition
- The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness

You will be happier for the learnin'.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by ptw:
Frodo

I have never read so much crap in all my life.
YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION.

You judge a society not by the standard of the richest person but of the poorest.

I DON'T JUDGE A SOCIETY BY EITHER.

The welfare cheats as you call them would make up 0.0000001% of single parents.

I DIDN'T, BUT THERE ARE MORE THAN YOU THINK.

You also fail to see the bigger picture.
YOUR OPINION. I BELIEVE OTHERWISE
I assume you agree that we need a level of a public health system for those who cannot afford private insurance.
YES I DO

The biggest correleation with good health is income (the poorer you are the sicker you get).

NOT NECCESSARILY BUT WEALTH PROVIDES BETTER NUTRITION AND HEALTHCARE AS A GENERALISATION. IT ALSO AT TIMES ALLOWS YOU TO AFFORD DRUGS, ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTES THAT ARE DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR HEALTH.
Denying single parents (however they got that way) welfare simply increase the burden on other parts of the tax payer funded systems.
WILL YOU PLEASE READ WHAT I SAY AND NOT MISINTERPRET IT. SINGLE PARENTS SHOULD GET WEFARE IF THEY ARE IN NEED JUST AS DESERVINGLY AS ANY OTHER PERSON IN NEED. MY ONLY OBJECTION IS CALLING THAT ASSISTANCE A SINGLE PERSONS PENSION AS I BELIEVE IT CAN PROVIDE AN INCENTIVE FOR BREAKING UP MARRIAGES THAT OTHERWISE MAY HAVE LASTED. I HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED REMOVAL OF WELFARE TO THE NEEDY
Similarly with unemployment. If you make parents so poor that they cannot adequately look after their children then chances are those children will not be able to compete in the job market and will be more likely to become unemployed themselves....again increasing their dependancy on the welfare system.
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE
So denying welfare payments to single parents is the most short sighted, expensive, gross abuse of tax payer money I can think of (well not quite but it is up there).
I AGREE
This "bugger you...I'm alright" attitude went out with the Ark....move into the '50s.
I SPEND A LOT OF TIME HELPING THOSE WITH PROBLEMS. I GIVE A LOT TO CHARITY. THE 'BUGGER YOU...I'M ALRIGHT" ATTITUDE COULD NOT BE A MORE DISTAND REFLECTION OF MY PERSONA.
ptw

Let me precis my position, which has not changed but has been readily misinterpreted and misquoted.

• Personal experience and a lot of reading has given me the belief that many people with serious mental disorders, depressives, drug abusers, alcoholics etc have their root problems traceable to childhood.
• Most common problems are sexual interference, violence and single parenting
• If society wants to vastly reduce these very serious problems then we need to address them.
• Trying to keep families together is a good way of improving things
• By removing an entitlement of support based upon single parent status my belief is that couples would work harder to keep their marriage going.
• By removing welfare based upon that status in no way interferes with my strong belief that the poor should be supported by the welfare state. My position only differs in that the criteria be that of poorness or low income and not of parental status.
• I believe that marriage is a commitment to each other and the decision to have a child is a commitment by the parents to the child.
• When a marriage ends the commitment promised by the parents is broken and damage is likely to occur psychologically to the child.
• Parents in this situation are responsible for the mistakes they may have made.
• The mistakes may include choosing the wrong partner, having an affair,not working hard enough at the marriage and many others.
• It is okay to make mistakes. We all do it so regularly. By saying to yourself, " Hey, I could have done things better, I made some mistakes" doesn't make a lesser person of anyone. In fact in some ways it is very positive.
• The way the majority single parents react to their situation is admirable.
• It is necessary that we take full responsibility for breaking our commitments and making mistakes that affect others. In reference to this it is essential that the estranged partner (usualy the man) contributes fairly to the upbringing of the child so that the most minimal of harm ensues from the breakdown. Whilst we cannot force an estranged partner to give love and affection we can provide a system where sufficient financial support is a legal requirement. Policing of this is another argument.

These are my beliefs and I have as much right to state them as anyone else. If you consider any statement to be a contradiction, backflip, lie, distortion etc, then that is your choice and I really do not wish to debate the 'interpratations of the written word', however I have now stated my case and I will gladly debate any part of it.
One thing that I do respect though is my right to alter my beliefs at any time. Such is the road of personal development and it is an unwise person who casts their beliefs in stone.

 

[Bluey]

"By removing an entitlement of support based upon single parent status my belief is that couples would work harder to keep their marriage going."

What bullshit. Where on Earth are you pulling this from? My belief is that by removing this entitlement you'd get more single mothers - and their kids - working as prostitutes, thieving and worse.