The Ashes. Fourth Test Australia v England @ The SCG 5-9 January

Who will win?

  • Australia

    Votes: 62 84.9%
  • England

    Votes: 11 15.1%

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cainozz

Club Legend
Feb 6, 2015
1,819
2,812
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Not really sure why you would want to mess around too much with our long term no.3 (a position we've really struggled to find someone for since Ponting). Marnus has been brilliant there. Laboosh and Smudge coming it at 3 & 4 is also a lot more intimidating to fielding sides and offers more resistance to a batting collapse when the fielding side have their tails up with an early wicket.

To me, there's a lot less shuffling and potential for unsettling a line-up long term by Uzzie simply moving to open in place of Harris and Head slotting back at no.5. Khawaja should open alongside Warner for the next 12 months as we need that experience up the top for the tough oversees tours coming up. After then, we can evaluate the likes of Puc, Street, Hunt etc. to whoever is knocking the door down with weight of runs over a few shield seasons.
 

deanc

Premiership Player
Jun 13, 2014
4,348
5,671
Waverley
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tasmania
Scientists have also tried to squash the theory that the pink ball swings more than the red. This action would most definitely favour the bowlers, especially James Anderson who has often been dubbed the ‘King of Swing (bowling)’.

The manufacturing process of the red and pink Kookaburra's balls is identical - aside from colour of the dye used with the pink ball and it's black stitching.

Accordingly, it's the atmospheric conditions of the venue that often promotes swing, rather than the different coloured ball. The main reason the media and cricket commentators speculate otherwise is to create discussion, purely for the sake of discussion.
There was also a suggestion initially that the pink-balls received extra coats of lacquer to maintain their colour and thereby promoting swing, but this has been refuted by the manufacturer...
 
Last edited:

DaRick

Norm Smith Medallist
Jan 12, 2008
6,395
5,802
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
(See avatar)
Not Lasagna's choice where he bats. Ed Cowan is spot on.

While not as egregious, this does remind me of those who criticised Michael Clarke for not batting at #3 when he was scoring a billion runs at #5 during 2012, and was obviously not technically suited to the #3 position.

Diluting a strength to cover a weakness is something ENG have been notorious for doing, and often you don't really wind up doing either.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Adelaide Hawk

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2002
49,849
42,208
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
While not as egregious, this does remind me of those who criticised Michael Clarke for not batting at #3 when he was scoring a billion runs at #5 during 2012, and was obviously not technically suited to the #3 position.

Diluting a strength to cover a weakness is something ENG have been notorious for doing, and often you don't really wind up doing either.

Agreed. If a player is succeeding in a spot, leave him there. All spots in the batting line up have subtle differences that require certain skills. I remember when the opening batting spot was such a problem, Ian Chappell was forever walking in to face the new ball. In the end they thought if Ian is facing the new ball all the time, we may as well make him an opener. The exercise was a disaster, all it did was rob the team of its best number 3. Chappell returned to the 3 spot, was still walking in at 1 for SFA, and making hundreds.
 

The Passenger

Bugman & Programmer Extraordinaire
Mar 25, 2003
33,526
23,687
127.0.0.1
AFL Club
West Coast
Not really sure why you would want to mess around too much with our long term no.3 (a position we've really struggled to find someone for since Ponting). Marnus has been brilliant there. Laboosh and Smudge coming it at 3 & 4 is also a lot more intimidating to fielding sides and offers more resistance to a batting collapse when the fielding side have their tails up with an early wicket.

To me, there's a lot less shuffling and potential for unsettling a line-up long term by Uzzie simply moving to open in place of Harris and Head slotting back at no.5. Khawaja should open alongside Warner for the next 12 months as we need that experience up the top for the tough oversees tours coming up. After then, we can evaluate the likes of Puc, Street, Hunt etc. to whoever is knocking the door down with weight of runs over a few shield seasons.
I can't believe how much debate there has been over which of Harris, Head or Khawaja should be left out.

The answer is blindingly clear. Harris averages 25 from plenty of opportunities and is a liability in the field.

Labs should definitely NOT be moving to opener. Say Khawaja was completely at sea opening the batting then yeah you could make the case that is how we are going have to structure our top six because there is no other opening option. But Khawaja has plenty of experiencing opening the batting below test cricket and has even had good success doing it at test level, albeit a very small sample size there.

If Khawaja opening doesn't work we are in no worse position then we were prior. But at least we are giving it a shot with a guy who is a proven run scorer at test level.
 

The Passenger

Bugman & Programmer Extraordinaire
Mar 25, 2003
33,526
23,687
127.0.0.1
AFL Club
West Coast
Agreed. If a player is succeeding in a spot, leave him there. All spots in the batting line up have subtle differences that require certain skills. I remember when the opening batting spot was such a problem, Ian Chappell was forever walking in to face the new ball. In the end they thought if Ian is facing the new ball all the time, we may as well make him an opener. The exercise was a disaster, all it did was rob the team of its best number 3. Chappell returned to the 3 spot, was still walking in at 1 for SFA, and making hundreds.
Not saying it would have worked long term, but they did only try it for one test in 1971. He made 12 and 0. Interestingly, Chappell himself wasn't in great form prior to this with just 2 half centuries in his prior 13 innings.

There was 8 consecutive opening partnerships between Lawry and Stackpole of 30 and under prior to the test where Chappell opened. In the two tests after opening - Melbourne and Adelaide - Chappell made tons in each of them, but Stackpole and Lawry got a bit of form back themselves with opening stands of 64, 51, 61 and 65.

We did go 66 consecutive innings without a century opening stand between 1968 and 1973.



 

deanc

Premiership Player
Jun 13, 2014
4,348
5,671
Waverley
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tasmania
I can't believe how much debate there has been over which of Harris, Head or Khawaja should be left out.

The answer is blindingly clear. Harris averages 25 from plenty of opportunities and is a liability in the field.

Labs should definitely NOT be moving to opener. Say Khawaja was completely at sea opening the batting then yeah you could make the case that is how we are going have to structure our top six because there is no other opening option. But Khawaja has plenty of experiencing opening the batting below test cricket and has even had good success doing it at test level, albeit a very small sample size there.

If Khawaja opening doesn't work we are in no worse position then we were prior. But at least we are giving it a shot with a guy who is a proven run scorer at test level.

Good points, no real dispute - although I suspect the selectors will be thinking if Harris can do well in Hobart then Australia are really only then looking for one more future opening batsmen, given Warner's age - and of course if Usman opens with Warner, it's just a backward step in this regard.

The other option that maybe considered to retain Khawaja's spot, is to give Green a rest and bat Head at 6..?
 
Last edited:

Westend

Premiership Player
Mar 28, 2009
4,766
2,553
AFL Club
West Coast
Good points, no real dispute - although I suspect the selectors will be thinking if Harris can do well in Hobart then Australia are really only then looking for one more future opening batsmen, given Warner's age - and of course if Usman opens with Warner, it's just a backward step in this regard.

The other option that may considered to retain Khawaja's spot, is to give Green a rest and bat Head at 6..?

with fatigue to starc and boland ....no thanks
 

Ducky Tie

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 15, 2011
8,552
18,372
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Good points, no real dispute - although I suspect the selectors will be thinking if Harris can do well in Hobart then Australia are really only then looking for one more future opening batsmen, given Warner's age - and of course if Usman opens with Warner, it's just a backward step in this regard.
Yeah I think that's definitely how the selectors would be thinking. It does feel a little like they are trying to wish Harris into being a long term solution more than anything. Harris turning into a long term quality opener would certainly solve some problems. Don't really see it working out like that though.
 

deanc

Premiership Player
Jun 13, 2014
4,348
5,671
Waverley
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Tasmania
with fatigue to starc and boland ....no thanks

Fatigue? Gee, the Poms have only batted more than 100 overs/innings twice thus far..!
Starc has bowled 134 overs in 8 innings, being 16.7 overs/innings average. While Boland has bowled just 55 overs in 4 innings, being 13.8 overs/innings average. Bowlers fatigue is only a factor usually after they have consistently bowled around 60 overs per Test...
 

to1994

Club Legend
Jul 8, 2015
2,173
2,144
AFL Club
Essendon
I love Ed Cowan's suggestion to move Labuschagne up to open in place of Harris, with everyone else shifting up one spot to make room for Head at 5.

Labuschagne has the right temperament to open, and is pretty much already doing it with Harris often getting out early. He's a beautiful leaver.

Also means Smith doesn't have to wait as long to come in. He seems to play better when he comes in earlier with more responsibility to perform.

Why would we stuff around the top ranked Test batsmen to accommodate Travis Head whose innings of substance you can count on one hand?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Adelaide Hawk

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2002
49,849
42,208
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
Fatigue? Gee, the Poms have only batted more than 100 overs/innings twice thus far..!
Starc has bowled 134 overs in 8 innings, being 16.7 overs/innings average. While Boland has bowled just 55 overs in 4 innings, being 13.8 overs/innings average. Bowlers fatigue is only a factor usually after they have consistently bowled around 60 overs per Test...

Could you imagine Dennis Lillee's reaction if someone dared suggest he was suffering fatigue and should be rested?
 

Lego23

Premium Gold
Aug 9, 2017
11,559
34,803
Tasmania
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hurricanes, Panthers
Have always thought this.
What do u need Lyon for when you have Smith and Labuschagne?
To build pressure from one end while the quicks rotate at the other end.

Smith has taken 1 wicket in 6 years, Marnus bowled almost as many full tosses as he did balls that turned.

Why do you need the 4th quick when you also have Green?

Can't believe we are once again questioning the role of Lyon in the team.
 

Happy Mastenator

Chris Masten's Sock Puppet
Apr 16, 2010
16,908
21,309
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
Did we ever work out why Harris is being given multiple shots over someone like Hanscombe, who while he didn't set the world alight, certainly performed better in his test matches. How's he been going at first class level?
 

Taylor

Community Leader
Jul 16, 2009
57,876
68,139
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Did we ever work out why Harris is being given multiple shots over someone like Hanscombe, who while he didn't set the world alight, certainly performed better in his test matches. How's he been going at first class level?
Is there a relationship going back to Harris playing in a winning Scorcher's side under Langer?
 

corbies

Moderator
Jul 31, 2010
6,610
8,873
Newcastle
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
S'roos, New Jets, WHam, Cronulla
Did we ever work out why Harris is being given multiple shots over someone like Hanscombe, who while he didn't set the world alight, certainly performed better in his test matches. How's he been going at first class level?
Not as good as all the top and middle order batsman currently in the Test side plus several others not in the side.
 

Lego23

Premium Gold
Aug 9, 2017
11,559
34,803
Tasmania
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Hurricanes, Panthers
Did we ever work out why Harris is being given multiple shots over someone like Hanscombe, who while he didn't set the world alight, certainly performed better in his test matches. How's he been going at first class level?
Because we have multiple good/solid middle order batsman Marnus, Smith, Head, Green, Ussie and no good openers

Also Handscomb had a clear technique issue that was heavily exposed at test level tried fixing it but has never scored the runs required since to force his way in.

I don’t rate Harris and never have, I don’t think it’s confusing why the selectors have been picking him in the hope of him figuring it out more so than the actual thought that he would.
 

Voice of the G

Club Legend
Jan 18, 2016
2,849
1,716
AFL Club
Sydney
To build pressure from one end while the quicks rotate at the other end.

Smith has taken 1 wicket in 6 years, Marnus bowled almost as many full tosses as he did balls that turned.

Why do you need the 4th quick when you also have Green?

Can't believe we are once again questioning the role of Lyon in the team.

Starting to wonder whether the bowling attack will be Starc,Cummins,Green and Lyon.In Head,Out Boland injured.Strengthens the batting but a 5th bowling option if required might be a worry unless they use Labs more.
 

FredLeDeux

Hall of Famer
Aug 2, 2012
31,914
50,487
AFL Club
Geelong
Starting to wonder whether the bowling attack will be Starc,Cummins,Green and Lyon.In Head,Out Boland injured.Strengthens the batting but a 5th bowling option if required might be a worry unless they use Labs more.
Not sure whether the medicos have yet OK'd a full bowling load for Green.
 

Voice of the G

Club Legend
Jan 18, 2016
2,849
1,716
AFL Club
Sydney
Not sure whether the medicos have yet OK'd a full bowling load for Green.

Good point,perhaps my suggestion is taking the easy way out with who to drop of the batsman I supppose.Personally think it should be Harris but he is unlucky with the way he has performed the last 2 tests.BUT Khawaji twin tons has to play, I would prefer in the middle order but if we are playing Head the only spot for him is as a opener.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.