The Ashes, Third Test Australia v England @ The MCG 26-30 December

Who will win?


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Around the Wicket

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👍 - this is ”Test” cricket- the highest form, where each Test Cap awarded has a number and is revered you don’t just hand them out wily Molly to blokes averaging 24 in shield

His 21 games in and 38 innings as well so he'll have to go on hell of a run to even get it above 35. Even if he averaged 50 for the next 20 innings it'd only go to 33.
 

Grand Uncle Horace

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👍 - this is ”Test” cricket- the highest form, where each Test Cap awarded has a number and is revered you don’t just hand them out wily Molly to blokes averaging 24 in shield

He and Edwards both started so well, the baggies were already in the brown paper bags.

Both have galloped backwards for reasons that mystify me. Still the young fella is till just 22 so has plenty of time.

Personally I think Sangha and Fraser-McGurk should not play the Babel if they want their first class careers to develop. To their undying credit both Puck and Green said no to the Babel.
 

philreich

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He and Edwards both started so well, the baggies were already in the brown paper bags.

Both have galloped backwards for reasons that mystify me. Still the young fella is till just 22 so has plenty of time.

Personally I think Sangha and Fraser-McGurk should not play the Babel if they want their first class careers to develop. To their undying credit both Puck and Green said no to the Babel.
The BBL is too long IMHO. Cut it back from 14 games per team to around 8-10, giving Shield players more of a chance to impress the national selectors.
 

BStaff17

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We don't have to wait long to see if we are on the up or not, three away tours in less than a year, honestly SL seems our best shot at a win as pakistan and india are both playing well right now and are simply better sides than us in those conditions.

Australia hasn't won a test series away from home since Feb 2016 against New Zealand.

Quite remarkable when you consider the bowling attack we have. And had once of the best batsman in the world for a period there

Pat Cummins has never played in a winning test series away from home.
 

Around the Wicket

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Australia hasn't won a test series away from home since Feb 2016 against New Zealand.

Quite remarkable when you consider the bowling attack we have. And had once of the best batsman in the world for a period there

Pat Cummins has never played in a winning test series away from home.

Our bowling attack is good in suitable conditions, its useless in India, UAE and Sri Lanka for example. England we were a bad umpire call away from winning 3-1 in England when Stokes was out with a few runs to go and Paine had wasted the review. We will beat both South Africa and England away next time around.
 

BStaff17

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Our bowling attack is good in suitable conditions, its useless in India, UAE and Sri Lanka for example. England we were a bad umpire call away from winning 3-1 in England when Stokes was out with a few runs to go and Paine had wasted the review. We will beat both South Africa and England away next time around.

We always seem to have south africa's measure over there while its in reverse when they come to Australia. They perform better against us here then at home.

Other then our self inflicted implosion in 2018 our recent record there is we won in 2006,2009,2014 and drew in 2011.

2009 and 2011 we certainly weren't favourites either i think even 2014 was considered a 50/50 bet.
 

Voice of the G

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Australia hasn't won a test series away from home since Feb 2016 against New Zealand.

Quite remarkable when you consider the bowling attack we have. And had once of the best batsman in the world for a period there

Pat Cummins has never played in a winning test series away from home.

Would I be correct in saying that we will have a team in Pakistan while at the same team another Aust.team playing in NZ, T20 games?
 

BStaff17

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Would I be correct in saying that we will have a team in Pakistan while at the same team another Aust.team playing in NZ, T20 games?

Yep same thing happened last year if we had gone to south africa for tests. T20 squad was in NZ at same time.

Also happened previously when we toured India in 2017. We had 3 t20s against sri lanka within 5 days before the 1st test while the test squad in India.

Fo some reason we like to jam in T20I matches when the squad test squad is away so we effectively have 2 Australian teams at once.

I am not of fan of that it i feel it devalues the Australian team.
 

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Around the Wicket

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Yep same thing happened last year if we had gone to south africa for tests. T20 squad was in NZ at same time.

Also happened previously when we toured India in 2017. We had 3 t20s against sri lanka within 5 days before the 1st test while the test squad in India.

Fo some reason we like to jam in T20I matches when the squad test squad is away so we effectively have 2 Australian teams at once.

I am not of fan of that it i feel it devalues the Australian team.

Half the reason we have never been good at T20I's, we field the best out of the Big Bash.. first time we field our best bowlers we win the T20 WC.
 

philreich

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I think most of us would agree.

However!

$, TV, $$, TV, $$$, TV, $$$$, TV, $$$$$, TV, $$$$$$, TV, $$$$$$$, TV, $$$$$$$$, Etc etc etc. ;)
I don't know what others on here think, but for mine, the novelty has well and truly worn off. Once this damn virus eventually dies (if it ever does!!!), it'll be interesting to see what sort of crowds are attracted to future BBL's.
 

Around the Wicket

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I don't know what others on here think, but for mine, the novelty has well and truly worn off. Once this damn virus eventually dies (if it ever does!!!), it'll be interesting to see what sort of crowds are attracted to future BBL's.

I hate T20's now, watching grown men high 5 and celebrate chasing down 105 8 wickets down does nothing for me, you'd think they had just won the World Cup. It's the same sh*t on repeat and its pretty much killed the 50 over game.

What T20 has done is make a good living for those 2nd and 3rd string players that would have been working a side job and playing shield/domestic 50 overs cricket pre T20.
 

Voice of the G

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Yep same thing happened last year if we had gone to south africa for tests. T20 squad was in NZ at same time.

Also happened previously when we toured India in 2017. We had 3 t20s against sri lanka within 5 days before the 1st test while the test squad in India.

Fo some reason we like to jam in T20I matches when the squad test squad is away so we effectively have 2 Australian teams at once.

I am not of fan of that it i feel it devalues the Australian team.

A bit of a insult to NZ cricket.They will be fielding a full strength side and half our T20 team will be in Pakistan.So that means no red ball cricket yet again for guys like Maxwell,Finch,M.Marsh etc again.
 
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HTPunter

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The big difference between them and everyone else at the moment - in my opinion - is that they will go into a tour with a specific strategy for batting. When they went to England, they specifically put away their cut shots, instead leaving the ball or playing the square drive if the ball was full enough; this meant that the bowlers gave them plenty of what they wanted (the ball on their pads, as they adjusted to not getting wickets in the cordon) and forced England to roll out some fast bouncy decks to try and win. They came here with the specific intent to have our bowlers bowl lots of overs; it worked when Pujara did it by himself, and it worked their next tour, allowing Pant/Jadeja/Ashwin/Sundar to make hay against an exhausted attack.

We go to England or India: 'It's just how they play, can't be expected to win away against pitches like that!' or 'Got to play your natural game' and England are no better.

Yep. Warner averaged only 9.5 or so didn't he in the last Ashes in England? Smashes it in a T20 WC and Aus conditions and I fully expect no one will consider that Warner in swinging conditions at age 36 will be a walking wicket in England in 2023, and it'll be encouraged as long as "he plays his natural game".
 

western royboy

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We always seem to have south africa's measure over there while its in reverse when they come to Australia. They perform better against us here then at home.

Other then our self inflicted implosion in 2018 our recent record there is we won in 2006,2009,2014 and drew in 2011.

2009 and 2011 we certainly weren't favourites either i think even 2014 was considered a 50/50 bet.
Test Cricket, the standard of and the nations that play it is in significant decline. The financial viability of each series hangs on pay tv rights. Only be 3 Major nations within 10 years, Aus / Eng / Ind
 

Gethelred

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Yep. Warner averaged only 9.5 or so didn't he in the last Ashes in England? Smashes it in a T20 WC and Aus conditions and I fully expect no one will consider that Warner in swinging conditions at age 36 will be a walking wicket in England in 2023, and it'll be encouraged as long as "he plays his natural game".
It's a bit funny, because Warner's improved markedly as an opener since he started. I really wonder a bit how much of his last tour of England is down to having just played a WC there on exactly those decks. Broad also was in a rare vein of form, too.

With us, we don't go in with a plan as a team. Individual players might adopt a tactic, but as a team we try to play our game. The strategy is maintained. I'd argue that our best era, the WI dominance and SA's recent dominance we all played 'our way', relying on Plan A to triumph anywhere. India's dominance is different; they go into each series wary of their opposition, and try to play the way which will work best in those conditions.

... which is interesting, because it indicates that - rather acutely - they know their batting is not really all that strong at the moment, and they need to go in with these plans to survive and prosper. It's a curious abnegation of pride, despite pride in oneself being a hallmark of Kohli.
 
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James Colorado

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It's a bit funny, because Warner's improved markedly as an opener since he started. I really wonder a bit how much of his last tour of England is down to having just played a WC there on exactly those decks. Broad also was in a rare vein of form, too.

With us, we don't go in with a plan as a team. Individual players might adopt a tactic, but as a team we try to play our game. The strategy is maintained. I'd argue that our best era, the WI dominance and SA's recent dominance we all played 'our way', relying on Plan A to triumph anywhere. India's dominance is different; they go into each series wary of their opposition, and try to play the way which will work best in those conditions.

... which is interesting, because it indicates that - rather acutely - they know their batting is not really all that strong at the moment, and they need to go in with these plans to survive and prosper. It's a curious abnegation of pride, despite pride in oneself being a hallmark of Kohli.

Indian cricket seems, at least on my reading of the history, to really be a tale of individual talent for decades. Gavaskar, Dev, et al got to where they did because they were guns. Even into the era of Tendulkar, Kumble, Dravid it was still talent rather than system, which is possible when there are hundreds of millions to choose from. Lately, there has been a pronounced cultural shift and the system all these talented cricketers go through is now thoroughly professional. Someone like Kohli would succeed in any era, but he's now coming through a domestic competition that is no longer the domain of cashed up princes and the overly talented poor, but a proper system with identified KPIs for success and how to accomplish them, with this now becoming a hallmark of the national side and its success.
 

Gethelred

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Indian cricket seems, at least on my reading of the history, to really be a tale of individual talent for decades. Gavaskar, Dev, et al got to where they did because they were guns. Even into the era of Tendulkar, Kumble, Dravid it was still talent rather than system, which is possible when there are hundreds of millions to choose from. Lately, there has been a pronounced cultural shift and the system all these talented cricketers go through is now thoroughly professional. Someone like Kohli would succeed in any era, but he's now coming through a domestic competition that is no longer the domain of cashed up princes and the overly talented poor, but a proper system with identified KPIs for success and how to accomplish them, with this now becoming a hallmark of the national side and its success.
I'd argue that Kohli at least has a thorough respect for work ethic where I don't know that those who came before him did to the same extent.

Kohli insisted that his team could field. He insisted on fitness standards. He insisted on playing quicks, and while the development of fast bowlers and bowling was happening before him if he doesn't champion it it doesn't happen.

I agree with your post, but I think that Kohli has really been transformative for them. An element of it is that he's taken lessons where they're there to be had; how to subsume the idea that being a gun means you cannot play smart.
 

philreich

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Just been trying to envisage England's team meeting to pick a team for the 4th Test.

Openers - what do we think?

Maybe Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad? They couldn't be worse than Hameed and Crawley.

OK don't mind it. What about number 3?

Well given the fact that Joe will probably be in the middle by the 4th over anyway, perhaps we could try Woakes at first drop. Or perhaps we could promote Sundries to 3, given the fact that he was our 3rd best batsman last year.

Obviously Joe comes in at 4. Maybe we could clone him, so he can also come in at 5.

Great. So Stokes drops to 6. Can we get Alan Knott to come out of retirement for 2 games? He might be nearly 76, but I'm sure he still moves his feet behind the stumps better than Jos Buttler.

Good, so Malan drops to 8. Hopefully by the time he comes to the crease, the ball will be 20 overs old, and he can stay in the middle for a bit longer.

Nice thinking. Burns at 9 - the ball should be 23 overs old by now, giving him more of a chance to reach double figures.

Then we can decide between Robinson and Leach for 10 and 11, depending on who can get the pads on first.

Finally the drinks waiter. Give the job to anyone except Buttler - he'll probably drop those as well.
 

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He and Edwards both started so well, the baggies were already in the brown paper bags.

Both have galloped backwards for reasons that mystify me. Still the young fella is till just 22 so has plenty of time.

Personally I think Sangha and Fraser-McGurk should not play the Babel if they want their first class careers to develop. To their undying credit both Puck and Green said no to the Babel.
Green played for the Scorchers

He has been in the Aussie test team the last 2 summers and that's why he hasn't played for the Scorchers in 2 years