The Association Football AFL Thread

Mar 29, 2010
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Art Vandelay_

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Not exactly this biggest scoop from Browne given Foxsports reported months ago that he'd likely move on himself rather than be sacked, but nonetheless.

"Hot Breakfast chief footy reporter Tom Browne had some mail on Stephen Silvagni’s future at Carlton this morning.

Stephen Silvagni, SOS, a key architect in their resurgence, he’s been their (Carlton’s) list manager during this period where there’s pretty optimistic views on their list, in one regard I guess he’s done the hard yards,” Browne said.

“I think within the next month is highly likely now he’ll step away from the club… at the moment Cain Liddle, who’s the CEO, a very competent CEO, has been restructuring the football department with some of his own key appointments.

“There’s now a view that if SOS was to leave the club as list manager Cain Liddle would appoint an alternative list manager.

“The club say that is not the case.”

Browne said that some of the changes made at Carlton in recent times have taken some power away from Silvagni.

“SOS is one of the most powerful people at Carlton, at least he was up until 12 months ago,” he said.

“But over the last 12 months there’s been a football manager appointed, Brad Lloyd, there’s also been a different list manager, Mick Agresta, appointed, and there’s a view that some of the power’s gone away from SOS, but there’s also some key power brokers that still support SOS.”

Browne also had some mail on Silvagni’s potential replacement.

“I think they’re interested in Sydney’s recruiting manager if it came to that… Kinnear Beatson,” he said.

“Which Carlton deny at this stage.”


Had a good chuckle at the bolded though... Their resurgence to......... 16th :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 

RPCB

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Not exactly this biggest scoop from Browne given Foxsports reported months ago that he'd likely move on himself rather than be sacked, but nonetheless.

"Hot Breakfast chief footy reporter Tom Browne had some mail on Stephen Silvagni’s future at Carlton this morning.

Stephen Silvagni, SOS, a key architect in their resurgence, he’s been their (Carlton’s) list manager during this period where there’s pretty optimistic views on their list, in one regard I guess he’s done the hard yards,” Browne said.

“I think within the next month is highly likely now he’ll step away from the club… at the moment Cain Liddle, who’s the CEO, a very competent CEO, has been restructuring the football department with some of his own key appointments.

“There’s now a view that if SOS was to leave the club as list manager Cain Liddle would appoint an alternative list manager.

“The club say that is not the case.”

Browne said that some of the changes made at Carlton in recent times have taken some power away from Silvagni.

“SOS is one of the most powerful people at Carlton, at least he was up until 12 months ago,” he said.

“But over the last 12 months there’s been a football manager appointed, Brad Lloyd, there’s also been a different list manager, Mick Agresta, appointed, and there’s a view that some of the power’s gone away from SOS, but there’s also some key power brokers that still support SOS.”

Browne also had some mail on Silvagni’s potential replacement.

“I think they’re interested in Sydney’s recruiting manager if it came to that… Kinnear Beatson,” he said.

“Which Carlton deny at this stage.”


Had a good chuckle at the bolded though... Their resurgence to......... 16th :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
Earlier this year you said Carlton had the worst list in the competition and by the end of it you said Carlton could have a Brisbane rise up the ladder in 2020. Brisbane finished 2nd this year. Not sure how you would rate Carlton’s list (“List” is different than “Results”) but you don’t seem to be able to answer that question yourself. Brisbane started their own rebuild in 2014 and then went on to finish 15th, 17th, 17th, 18th, 15th and 2nd. Carlton started their rebuild in 2015. So if your prediction turns out correct that Carlton could have a Brisbane type year in 2020, it will mean that Carlton have done well. I don’t know how you think full rebuilds work but they don’t tend to work in a way where a team will be blessed with an all time great draft year like Geelong had in 2001 and then goes on to win 3 flags over the next 10 years (18 years). Over the next 2-4 years you will need to replace Ablett, Sealwood, Taylor, Dangerfield and Hawkins. Not easy.

Results happen over time and not every post is a winner. Imagine how different Adelaide, Essendon and Hawthorn would look from the mid 90s to early 2000s if Fremantle didn’t literally hand those clubs get McLeod, Lloyd/Lucas and Hodge/Mitchell and then Croad.
 
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RPCB

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Fremantle got McPharlin out of that arrangement. Long term, gun defender. Strange example.
LOL. Give me a crack at Pick 1 in that draft any day of the year. When two of the top 3 were generational prospects, it’s really not a strange example at all. And I think the bigger myth is that most fans look at draft prospects as unknowns and can’t see how they will end up being gun players.
 

Van_Dyke

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Earlier this year you said Carlton had the worst list in the competition and by the end of it you said Carlton could have a Brisbane rise up the ladder in 2020. Brisbane finished 2nd this year. Not sure how you would rate Carlton’s list (“List” is different than “Results”) but you don’t seem to be able to answer that question yourself. Brisbane started their own rebuild in 2014 and then went on to finish 15th, 17th, 17th, 18th, 15th and 2nd. Carlton started their rebuild in 2015. So if your prediction turns out correct that Carlton could have a Brisbane type year in 2020, it will mean that Carlton have done well. I don’t know how you think full rebuilds work but they don’t tend to work in a way where a team will be blessed with an all time great draft year like Geelong had in 2001 and then goes on to win 3 flags over the next 10 years (18 years). Over the next 2-4 years you will need to replace Ablett, Sealwood, Taylor, Dangerfield and Hawkins. Not easy.

Results happen over time and not every post is a winner. Imagine how different Adelaide, Essendon and Hawthorn would look from the mid 90s to early 2000s if Fremantle didn’t literally hand those clubs get McLeod, Lloyd/Lucas and Hodge/Mitchell and then Croad.
It's also amusing they repeat the myth that Freo gave up Lloyd when we were in reality the only team that could not get any access to him.
This, potting us for not taking Lloyd/Lucas would be equivalent to potting GWS for trading the mini draft picks that saw O’Meara/BCrouch/Hogan/Martin be taken. Simply wrong
 

RPCB

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This, potting us for not taking Lloyd/Lucas would be equivalent to potting GWS for trading the mini draft picks that saw O’Meara/BCrouch/Hogan/Martin be taken. Simply wrong
I never said Fremantle could have drafted Lloyd and Lucas. Only that Fremantle’s trade helped another team become successful in the future.
 

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Bradesmaen

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LOL. Give me a crack at Pick 1 in that draft any day of the year. When two of the top 3 were generational prospects, it’s really not a strange example at all. And I think the bigger myth is that most fans look at draft prospects as unknowns and can’t see how they will end up being gun players.
Wouldn't call Hodge a generational pick. Also #1 doesn't always work out does it Jack Watts/Kreuzer/McCartin/Boyd/Swallow/Scully
 

glenferry23

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LOL. Give me a crack at Pick 1 in that draft any day of the year. When two of the top 3 were generational prospects, it’s really not a strange example at all. And I think the bigger myth is that most fans look at draft prospects as unknowns and can’t see how they will end up being gun players.
Nope. Completely disagree. Both teams benefitted from that arrangement I’d say.

Also the players traded in were quality at the time versus unknown.
It's also amusing they repeat the myth that Freo gave up Lloyd when we were in reality the only team that could not get any access to him.
Agreed, very odd to pot Freo over these examples. Strange.
 

Bradesmaen

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Tough call on Hodge. One of the best draft picks ever IMO.
He was a gun player, but not generational. Generational is Ablett/Judd. Anyhow - we traded our #1 pick away and made the finals in 2003 just 2 seasons after doing it. Hawthorn who received it after making the finals that year didn't make it again until 2007 and it wasn't thanks to just 2 players.
 

jd2010

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Wasn't it pick 4 for Ridley and Delaney?

How anyone can anyone call that a win-win?
 

Art Vandelay_

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Earlier this year you said Carlton had the worst list in the competition
I did. Bolton clearly made some players look far worse than they are.
could have a Brisbane rise up the ladder in 2020. Brisbane finished 2nd this year.
No, I qualified it by stating maybe not rising to the top, but could see potential for a good rise from 16th.
Not sure what this has to do with SOS anyway. He's a dud, as evidenced by his woeful trading display last month.
I don’t know how you think full rebuilds work but they don’t tend to work in a way where a team will be blessed with an all time great draft year like Geelong had in 2001 and then goes on to win 3 flags over the next 10 years (18 years).
No. Most full blown rebuilds where years are spent in the bottom 4 accruing top talent, well, for the most part they fail. In doing so dooming that club to another rebuild.

The method that seems to work, as evidenced by West Coast, Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn and even the Crows, is the model of always remaining in contention and never bottoming out. There's a combined 16 flags in the AFL era among these clubs.

While the Hawks hit there flag jackpot on the back of priority picks, look at what they've done in the last 5 years. Completely overhauled their list and will play finals in 2020 IMO without a rebuild. Swans, Cats and Crows operate this way and never fall far or for very long.

The Eagles have not missed finals for more than 3 years at a time since their inception.

Over the next 2-4 years you will need to replace Ablett, Sealwood, Taylor, Dangerfield and Hawkins. Not easy.
Not sure the relevance or why it's a topic?

In 1-3 years time we'll have a hole in the salary cap and thanks to a raft of picks for Kelly now have a strong hand to lure free agents or trade up the draft to grab the next gun for those relevant positions.
Taylor is a stretch now tbh. I'd have retired him personally rather than let him go on one too many, and I wouldn't say we'd struggle massively as a result.

O'Connor Blicavs Bews
Henry Kolodjashnij Stewart

Tuohy

Nucleus of what was one of the stiffest defences in 2019.
 

RPCB

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I did. Bolton clearly made some players look far worse than they are.

No, I qualified it by stating maybe not rising to the top, but could see potential for a good rise from 16th.
Not sure what this has to do with SOS anyway. He's a dud, as evidenced by his woeful trading display last month.
We basically didn’t give up the 1st rounder GCS wanted for Martin, with a clear shot at getting him for free at the end of the month. And Sydney wanted Daniher before giving up Papley. If that makes SOS a dud, then so be it. If GCS and Melbourne don’t draft Martin as is expected, then waiting the extra 5 weeks for him would have been worth it.

No. Most full blown rebuilds where years are spent in the bottom 4 accruing top talent, well, for the most part they fail. In doing so dooming that club to another rebuild.

The method that seems to work, as evidenced by West Coast, Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn and even the Crows, is the model of always remaining in contention and never bottoming out. There's a combined 16 flags in the AFL era among these clubs.

While the Hawks hit there flag jackpot on the back of priority picks, look at what they've done in the last 5 years. Completely overhauled their list and will play finals in 2020 IMO without a rebuild. Swans, Cats and Crows operate this way and never fall far or for very long.

The Eagles have not missed finals for more than 3 years at a time since their inception.
Yes, it’s a good model throughout a period of 20 years starting with Adelaide. No one know what Carlton will look like in the next 5 years. Give it time.

Not sure the relevance or why it's a topic?

In 1-3 years time we'll have a hole in the salary cap and thanks to a raft of picks for Kelly now have a strong hand to lure free agents or trade up the draft to grab the next gun for those relevant positions.
Taylor is a stretch now tbh. I'd have retired him personally rather than let him go on one too many, and I wouldn't say we'd struggle massively as a result.

O'Connor Blicavs Bews
Henry Kolodjashnij Stewart

Tuohy

Nucleus of what was one of the stiffest defences in 2019.
All I am saying is that you will have a few best 22 players needing to be replaced soon.

And totally off topic - every time I seem to turn around this year the Chicago Bulls are leading by 15+ points, they’ve lost those games. Up 26 at the end of 3 quarters today. Surely they can hang on lol.
 

Cooksen

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Nothing will come close to the Saints handing over 3 first round picks for Watts, Brooks and Lovett
Yeah I dont think those trades are anywhere near this tbh.

Exhibit 00*
Picks 16 and 46 for Stephen O'Reilly


Never a club to miss and opportunity when it comes knocking, the savvy Carlton recruitment department were eager to begin the process of screwing Freo in trades, paying the paltry sum of picks 16 and 46 for the talented and established O'Reilly. It cost them a pretty penny (all above board, no doubt :eek:), but it would prove to be the great coup of the 1999 trade week. No doubt fresh off a GF loss, SOR would lead the Blues to the ultimate glory in 2000.

Unfortunately, fate would have things play out slightly differently. O'Reilly developed a recurring back injury, curtailing his 2000 season to just 12 games, before retiring at the end of the year.




















O'Reilly's contract stipulated that - despite his early retirement - he was to be paid out in full, for his entire contract. For a club already looking for 'creative accounting' methods for its players, this presented somewhat of a headache. Of course, the club went the 'Carlton way', and hid as much payment as was necessary.

For whatever reason, O'Reilly decided to reward his early payout by blowing the whistle on Carltank. :D

None of the players (Silvagni, Brown, Bradley) or people involved in the cheating cooperated. Chances of a big bust significantly reduced.

Except, of course, O'Reilly. He ratted on Carltank like Adelaide squealed on the Tiges. :D:D

The AFL then meted out a $930,000 fine, and excluded Carltank from the drafts until 2004. :D:D:D

The club then proceeded to accumulate three spoons, went to the verge of bankruptcy, and went from being a hated foe, to the most pitied club in the league (and not in any good sense pitied). :D:D:D:D:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:




Love your work, Stevie.:thumbsu:
 

jd2010

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Yeah I dont think those trades are anywhere near this tbh.
Bringing in a guy who brought a quicker end to poor governance is not as bad as bringing in a guy for a first round pick only to be done with rape charges before kicking a ball in anger imo
 

Art Vandelay_

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Bringing in a guy who brought a quicker end to poor governance is not as bad as bringing in a guy for a first round pick only to be done with rape charges before kicking a ball in anger imo
Yes it is. There was nothing wrong with recruiting Lovett.
What was wrong was sacking him before the verdict, especially given he was acquitted.
 

RPCB

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Yes it is. There was nothing wrong with recruiting Lovett.
What was wrong was sacking him before the verdict, especially given he was acquitted.
Reading how events with St Kilda unfolded, it looks like Lovett was suspended after being accused of a sexual assault and then he was sacked 2 months later when rape charges were filed. So it does sound like the club was going to stand by him and after the rape charges were filed, they didn’t want the bad press and sacked him. Most, if not every, clubs would have done the same. St Kilda were in a tough spot.
 

jd2010

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Yes it is. There was nothing wrong with recruiting Lovett.
What was wrong was sacking him before the verdict, especially given he was acquitted.
They paid overs on a talent with questionable off field commitment who then f’ed up off field
 

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