The Association Football AFL Thread

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Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
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Are Carlton the least successful team of the 21st century (excl. GCS)? I think they might be the only ones not to make a PF?

Considering they were good in the 90s* to be better H2H than hardly anyone is pathetic.
Have not been able to build a good list after their bribe the league for a good zone and get the cheque book out for marquee signings method to flags was made redundant.

I mean the draft from inception through to the early-mid 90s was not the primary method to get your best players. Have they built a good list since then?
Funnily enough the only half decent list they've had this century was after going back to their messiah principles from the chequebook era and signing Judd.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
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Surprised we beat Carlton. Lost Sheppard early on top of no Kennedy, Oscar Allen, Shuey, Kelly, McGovern, Duggan, Brander.. We had a bunch of young kids playing who had played so few games and if I'm honest a few of these young kids havent shown much when they have played.

H.Edwards had played just 4 games.
L.Edwards was on debut.
Foley had played just 2 games.
O'Niell just 9 games under his belt.
Williams just the same 7 total games.
J.Jones just 13 games.

We had 10 players with less that 50 games. Crazy really to win that.

Playing away from home too I expected us to lose.
 
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SM

Bigfooty Legend
Aug 3, 2008
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Surprised we beat Carlton. Lost Sheppard early on top of no Kennedy, Oscar Allen, Shuey, Kelly, McGovern, Duggan, Brander.. We had a bunch of young kids playing who had played so few games and if I'm honest a few of these young kids havent shown much when they have played.

H.Edwards had played just 4 games.
L.Edwards was on debut.
Foley had played just 2 games.
O'Niell just 9 games under his belt.
Williams just the same 7 total games.
J.Jones just 13 games.

Playing away from home too I expected us to lose.
Carlton lost it rather than you won it IMO. Carlton were awful.
 

RPCB

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 21, 2007
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Considering they were good in the 90s* to be better H2H than hardly anyone is pathetic.
Have not been able to build a good list after their bribe the league for a good zone and get the cheque book out for marquee signings method to flags was made redundant.

I mean the draft from inception through to the early-mid 90s was not the primary method to get your best players. Have they built a good list since then?
Funnily enough the only half decent list they've had this century was after going back to their messiah principles from the chequebook era and signing Judd.
Is there any reason why Carlton trigger you as much as they do?

I mean you’ve said plenty of times that Carlton breached the salary cap in 1995 and “1995*“ but the league - the only opinion that counts - have said that 1995 was above board and 1999-2002 were when the salary cap breaches began. But you still seem to be triggered by Carlton like we stole a flag from you in 1995, lol. Since 2007 to now, Carlton haven’t been close to Geelong as a football club and Carlton still triggers you more than anyone else.
 
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jd2010

There used to be a football club over there
Feb 1, 2010
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Hold on for another month Teags. We love being the one's to get a coach sacked.
These very rarely end in a coach sacking.

But generally the coach isn't absolutely hopeless when the review is undertaken so who knows what it means for teague.

About time we get some external help to identify problem areas. From afar the likes of Brad Lloyd, Andrew Russell, John Barker, Brent Stanton, Dale Amos and the club medical staff will be most likely to have their papers stamped.
 

jd2010

There used to be a football club over there
Feb 1, 2010
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Is there any reason why Carlton trigger you as much as they do?

I mean you’ve said plenty of times that Carlton breached the salary cap in 1995 and “1995*“ but the league - the only opinion that counts - have said that 1995 was above board and 1999-2002 were when the salary cap breaches began. But you still seem to be triggered by Carlton like we stole a flag from you in 1995, lol. Since 2007 to now, Carlton haven’t been close to Geelong as a football club and Carlton still triggers you more than anyone else.
More analhurt from me calling him out as a Levy nuffy than 95 imo
 

RPCB

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These very rarely end in a coach sacking.

But generally the coach isn't absolutely hopeless when the review is undertaken so who knows what it means for teague.

About time we get some external help to identify problem areas. From afar the likes of Brad Lloyd, Andrew Russell, John Barker, Brent Stanton, Dale Amos and the club medical staff will be most likely to have their papers stamped.
I can’t wait to hear the results of the review, I am liking Sayers already. Lloyd, Stanton and Barker (how he has been at Carlton for 10 years is disgusting) are in a lot of trouble.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
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Is there any reason why Carlton trigger you as much as they do?

I mean you’ve said plenty of times that Carlton breached the salary cap in 1995 and “1995*“ but the league - the only opinion that counts - have said that 1995 was above board and 1999-2002 were when the salary cap breaches began. But you still seem to be triggered by Carlton like we stole a flag from you in 1995, lol. Since 2007 to now, Carlton haven’t been close to Geelong as a football club and Carlton still triggers you more than anyone else.
Blah blah blah. You were over the cap for most of the nineties and we’re meant to accept that the investigations led by Demetriou and co were kosher.

Were over the cap in 93 and in 95 were making illegal payments to players. That is a fact.


But it really is you that is triggered RPCB. I was answering a question about Carlton’s lack of success. You have not compiled a good list via the draft since the AFL moved away from zones and cheque books. Refute that if you can, there’s 20+ years of evidence that says it is true.
 

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RPCB

Brownlow Medallist
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Blah blah blah. You were over the cap for most of the nineties and we’re meant to accept that the investigations led by Demetriou and co were kosher.

Were over the cap in 93 and in 95 were making illegal payments to players. That is a fact.


But it really is you that is triggered RPCB. I was answering a question about Carlton’s lack of success. You have not compiled a good list via the draft since the AFL moved away from zones and cheque books. Refute that if you can, there’s 20+ years of evidence that says it is true.
I agree. Blah blah blah.

So you are thinking that Demetriou who gave Carlton massive fines in 2002 actually didn’t do a thorough investigation? As your useless link states, Carlton were over in 1993 and fined in 1994. “Between 1993 and 1995” is all you have, pretty much useless since the fine was for 1993.

Oooh look, I have my own link too.

Geelong has admitted to sourcing a legal substance from a company connected to Stephen Dank to inject into injured players during the 2009 season, the year the club won the second premiership of its dynasty.

Following reports that the AFL anti-doping tribunal had found that former Cats employee Dean Robinson used the services of Dank — the controversial sports scientist at the centre of the Essendon drugs scandal – while at the Cats, the club released a statement on Monday night clarifying the connection.
In 2007 Max Rooke was sent to Germany to undertake treatment on his hamstring injury. He visited Dr Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfarth, a world leader in the treatment of soft-tissue injuries. Part of that treatment was the injecting of Actovegin to treat the injury, a fact that was widely reported in the media at time," the statement said.
The success of this treatment led the club's medical staff to use Actovegin to treat other soft tissue injuries.




So Rooke was treated with an illegal substance in 2007 (only became legal in 2009) and Geelong sourced it in 2007 when it was successful treating Rookie? Maybe I should start writing “2007*” then. At least the weird connection between Geelong, Dank and Robinson should be called into question. Maybe Dank/Robinson in 2008/2009 didn’t only inject Geelong players with Actovegin. A person can create any narrative they want. Like you have.

You can take any link whichever way you want but to think Geelong has been clean throughout their history is just plain ignorance. The difference between Carlton and Geelong is that the AFL media and supporters at large give zero fu**s about Geelong


Maybe this wasn’t your intention but when you write things like “Considering they were good in the 90s*” with a clear asterisk, I don’t think you wanted a simple discussion about the review being undertaken at Carlton or the list.
 
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Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
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I agree. Blah blah blah.

So you are thinking that Demetriou who gave Carlton massive fines in 2002 actually didn’t do a thorough investigation in 1995? As your useless link states, Carlton were over in 1993 and fined in 1994. “Between 1993 and 1995” is all you have, pretty much useless since the fine was for 1993.

Oooh look, I have my own link too.











So Rooke was treated with an illegal substance in 2007 (only became legal in 2009) and Geelong sourced it in 2007 when it was successful treating Rookie? Maybe I should start writing “2007*” then. At least the weird connection between Geelong, Dank and Robinson should be called into question. Maybe Dank/Robinson in 2008/2009 didn’t only inject Geelong players with Actovegin.

You can take any link whichever way you want but to think Geelong has been clean throughout their history is just plain ignorance. The difference between Carlton and Geelong is that the AFL media and supporters at large give zero fu**s about Geelong
See. You’re the triggered one.
I show an article stating (and investigated by the ATO no less) illegal payments.

You respond with links about Robinson who there is no evidence to suggest wrong doing before Essendon.


Cleared by ASADA for actovegin use. Because Rooke was administered it in the method that is legal.


So rather than bringing up tenuous links to try and prove something already disproven about my club, merely to refute something proven about yours, care to stop deflecting about the question asked?

That Carlton through the draft has built a good team.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
88,119
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So let’s recap RPCB

I answer question about Carlton list building and mention the 90s*…

You jump to the conclusion it was about 95. If I meant 95 I would have said so.

Offer up some defence of 95.

Illegal payments that year are shown.

You don’t refute that and merely go on a rant about a drug that was legal and cleared for use.

All the while ignoring the key question at hand regarding Carlton list building.

Are you ok?
 

RPCB

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 21, 2007
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See. You’re the triggered one.
I show an article stating (and investigated by the ATO no less) illegal payments.

You respond with links about Robinson who there is no evidence to suggest wrong doing before Essendon.


Cleared by ASADA for actovegin use. Because Rooke was administered it in the method that is legal.


So rather than bringing up tenuous links to try and prove something already disproven about my club, merely to refute something proven about yours,
Thats brilliant lol. As long as Geelong always refute claims brought against them and “we’ve self reported to (current AFL General Manager of Football Operation and former Geelong head of football) Steven Hocking”, nothing to ever see here. 😂


care to stop deflecting about the question asked?

That Carlton through the draft has built a good team.
Lol, keep your pants on, I was going to eventually get to this part because it’s not like you wouldn’t have replied and asked me again.

It’s not a question of “Carlton are 4-8, they are sh*t”, it’s a question of “why are Carlton 4-8?”. Coaching? Development? Something else? Through the draft, Carlton have selected Cripps, Weitering, McKay, Charlie Curnow, Walsh. As good as any made from the years they have come from. 2016 (Dow and O’Brien) and 2017 (Petrevski-Seton) look to be write offs and two of them (I will predict that Dow won’t be incited included) look to be traded this year. TDK came from 2017 and he is a good developing ruckman. I really like the look of Stocker and I think Kemp will be a very good player. But these players are all high draft picks. Where the club have failed through the draft is when you get into the 2nd and 3rd round. I think there is a lot of talent on the list but the coaching and development is sub standard. You might think that’s an excuse it all starts with coaching and development.
 

RPCB

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 21, 2007
12,932
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So let’s recap RPCB

I answer question about Carlton list building and mention the 90s*…

You jump to the conclusion it was about 95. If I meant 95 I would have said so.

Offer up some defence of 95.

Illegal payments that year are shown.

You don’t refute that and merely go on a rant about a drug that was legal and cleared for use.

All the while ignoring the key question at hand regarding Carlton list building.

Are you ok?
Relax, I was responding.

Thank you for posting a 2013 link showing that drug was cleared for use. In 2009 it was cleared. Apparently Geelong used it in 2007.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
88,119
116,800
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Thats brilliant lol. As long as Geelong always refute claims brought against them and “we’ve self reported to (current AFL General Manager of Football Operation and former Geelong head of football) Steven Hocking”, nothing to ever see here. 😂
That you bring up Hocko is just awesome. You are aware Dean Robinson wanted us to employ Dank?

He was interviewed by Hocking who told the hierarchy he was dodgy and we should stay away. LOL.
 

RPCB

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 21, 2007
12,932
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That you bring up Hocko is just awesome. You are aware Dean Robinson wanted us to employ Dank?

He was interviewed by Hocking who told the hierarchy he was dodgy and we should stay away. LOL.
Is everything you post your firsthand account of events?

You were so interested in knowing my thoughts on Carlton’s list, that you didn’t even bother to leave it in lol.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
88,119
116,800
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Bushrangers, AC Milan
It’s not a question of “Carlton are 4-8, they are sh*t”, it’s a question of “why are Carlton 4-8?”. Coaching? Development? Something else? Through the draft, Carlton have selected Cripps, Weitering, McKay, Charlie Curnow, Walsh. As good as any made from the years they have come from. 2016 (Dow and O’Brien) and 2017 (Petrevski-Seton) look to be write offs and two of them (I will predict that Dow won’t be incited included) look to be traded this year. TDK came from 2017 and he is a good developing ruckman. I really like the look of Stocker and I think Kemp will be a very good player. But these players are all high draft picks. Where the club have failed through the draft is when you get into the 2nd and 3rd round. I think there is a lot of talent on the list but the coaching and development is sub standard. You might think that’s an excuse it all starts with coaching and development
Go higher. The successful clubs of recent times have stable leadership.

Carlton is still run behind the scenes by the Pratt family and Mathieson.

Leads to poor standards and accountability and sub-standard appointments.

Got to get the off-field right.
 

RPCB

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 21, 2007
12,932
13,063
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
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Go higher. The successful clubs of recent times have stable leadership.

Carlton is still run behind the scenes by the Pratt family and Mathieson.

Leads to poor standards and accountability and sub-standard appointments.

Got to get the off-field right.
That’s why I love this review. It’s been a very long time coming and hopefully for our supporters leads to some real change.

A real positive is the historical debt has been cleared so Sayers can come in with a clean slate and make some positive changes.
 

jd2010

There used to be a football club over there
Feb 1, 2010
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Barker gone.

Initially thought it was gutless to walk before being pushed but I take that back the club forced him to finish early rather than see it through and cause more harm than good to this season. Expect Luke Power to step into the role.
 

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