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Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
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You talking to me? I criticised his role as being the annointed one a few years back like they did with Muirhead
He’s no better than all the other post Warne duds we’ve tried.

Agar showed a bit when he debuted then moronically went to learn his craft at WA on the WACA.

We’ll get creamed in India if this is what our spin reserve looks like
 

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eth-dog

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How about getting the chance and having someone drop a sitter, eh?
 

Magma

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khawaja was just shocked it wasnt another full toss down leg side
 

Jatz

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Babar is the best bat in the world atm imo and has been top 3-4 for a while now. If he didn't play for Pakistan he would get far more recognition. He has a great temperament.
Wasn't that his first 100 in over two years?
 

Jatz

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Also, is it just me or has Lyon really fallen away in recent years. He really doesn't pick up more than a handful of wickets all that often anymore.
 

glenferry23

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Also, is it just me or has Lyon really fallen away in recent years. He really doesn't pick up more than a handful of wickets all that often anymore.

Yes it does feel that way, has been a few Tests now where you look to your frontline spinner to get the job done on day 5 and he hasn't been able to deliver (not all his fault obviously, there's always mitigating factors). I know the goat stuff has always been somewhat in jest, I've never subscribed to it though.

Ashwin comfortably for me has been the best test offspinner for sometime. I recall reading a stat that prior to the India test series here the previous summer, he was on 365 test wickets to Lyon's 390. Ashwin is now on 442 wickets (average of 24) compared to Lyon's 421 wickets at 32 (he's played 21 more tests over his career as well).

Also well batted RPCB. Epic innings.
 

Jatz

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Yes it does feel that way, has been a few Tests now where you look to your frontline spinner to get the job done on day 5 and he hasn't been able to deliver (not all his fault obviously, there's always mitigating factors). I know the goat stuff has always been somewhat in jest, I've never subscribed to it though.

Ashwin comfortably for me has been the best test offspinner for sometime. I recall reading a stat that prior to the India test series here the previous summer, he was on 365 test wickets to Lyon's 390. Ashwin is now on 442 wickets (average of 24) compared to Lyon's 421 wickets at 32 (he's played 21 more tests over his career as well).

Also well batted RPCB. Epic innings.
I think that's where my thinking comes from. I remember quite a few 5th day (or second innings) where he really just hasn't performed.

Ashwin is miles in front of Lyon. Although it must be said, it's always going to be easier for him to take a tonne of wickets on home soil.
 

glenferry23

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Nah.

Good player but nah.

Home track bully.

Could say the same for Lyon, but then again he hasn’t been able to get it done on “home tracks” recently either.

Ashwin comfortably a better cricketer than Lyon for me. Not even a contest imo.
 

Art Vandelay_

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Who's ahead of him in recent times?
Lyon.

Ashwin will always for me remain a rung below purely because all he's shown he can do is succeed in Ind/UAE/WI/SL where spin is favourable.
Lyon has acquitted himself well in those conditions but been far better in Aus/RSA/NZ/ENG

NM Lyon:

Screenshot 2022-03-17 155722.jpg


R Ashwin:

Screenshot ASH 2022-03-17 155822.jpg


One has an average, SR, economy that doesn't differ much from overall once on less favourable spin destinations.
The other varies massively once he's off the Sub-Continent.

Lyon IMO is merely recency bias.

Screenshot 2022-03-17 160157.jpg

2021 is only a marginal drop off, this summer he was a little quiet but could be down to a new captain as much as it could be him in decline.
The Pakistan series so far has been a snooze fest. Docile wickets that even the Pakistan spinners can't get anything done on at home. Not Lyon's fault there IMO.
 

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Art Vandelay_

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Could say the same for Lyon, but then again he hasn’t been able to get it done on “home tracks” recently either.

Ashwin comfortably a better cricketer than Lyon for me. Not even a contest imo.
Better all round cricketer is a fair statement, better bowler is subjective and I disagree with it.

Don’t think you can also level it at Lyon tbh. We have 6 test venues. Hobart is a seamers paradise as it us often green, the GABBA can be too but is generally a paceman’s wicket as it is bouncy and seams and swings. The WACA/PS favour seam as well. MCG is flat.

AO and SCG take to spin well.

So Lyon plays half his tests in a country where 67% of test tracks aren’t known to favour the spinner.

Can you say the same for Indian tracks?
 

glenferry23

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From memory his record in series loss to India last summer was 9 wickets at around 55 I recall. That’s not entirely pinned on him, the bowlers collectively failed on day 5 in Sydney and Brisbane (against outstanding batting of course). However those kind of numbers are hard for me to overlook when making these kind of assessments.

Edit: oops you’re right, I did say off spinner originally. Mistakenly typed that instead of cricketer, when factoring his batting (I know there’s “batting” all rounders and “bowling” all rounders, with Ashwin though I think you could just about class him a genuine all rounder).
 
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Bradesmaen

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Watching that again, the understated celebrations are great. None of this modern David w***er style of run 200m then jump in the air.
 

Bojan KantKick

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Nathan Lyon's strength is really tying up an end and he is very good at that and getting better. My only issue with him is he is not the kind of spinner who can be counted on to roll through the opposition on the last few days of test matches. Watching 'The Test' on prime he came across as not very confident and I think that is reflected in the way he bowls. He is too defensive for my liking. When he took a 6fer to win us the test match at Edgbaston in 2019 he rattled through the poms top order and bowled really aggressively. I'd like to see him be more aggressive more often.
 

Art Vandelay_

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imo the greatest fast bowler of all time
That I've seen play, in the mix. Reckon Akram is a decent shout also.
Would love to have seen Sobers, Hadlee, Thommo, Marshall, Holding, Underwood (spinner) live.
 

glenferry23

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imo the greatest fast bowler of all time

He was the best I’ve been able to see, only caught the tail end of Malcolm Marshall’s career who also has a magnificent record.

Really wish Shane Bond didn’t have his career ruined by injuries. He was ridiculously good.

What a great era of cricket, got to see the Windies at the G a heap. Glory days of ODIs too.

Definitely agree, ODIs were much more significant and memorable back then largely due to the reduced number of them. They’ve become so saturated since, obviously for commercial purposes however I have very fond memories of that era of cricket.

The Windies in town, led by Viv Richards, that was very special.
 

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