Analysis The Awkward Captaincy Problem

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bergholt said:
Our top 6 are probably: Steven, Carlisle, Robbo, Ross, Webster, Membrey. Not sure any of those are serious captaincy candidates except Ross.
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If you are right, and I don't doubt it, that exposes a serious flaw in the player development at the club. Would any captain from any other team not be in their top 6? It seems the Riewoldt era papered over a few too many cracks...
 
FQFjt said:
If you are right, and I don't doubt it, that exposes a serious flaw in the player development at the club. Would any captain from any other team not be in their top 6? It seems the Riewoldt era papered over a few too many cracks...
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Ross will take over as captain and hopefully he steps up another gear.
and Geary should in the leadership group and not captain. - this way it doesn't look to bad when he dropped
 
bergholt said:
Our top 6 are probably: Steven, Carlisle, Robbo, Ross, Webster, Membrey. Not sure any of those are serious captaincy candidates except Ross.
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Correct, but we have a bunch of fans saying Ross isn't good enough and should be traded if we can get anything for him.
Obviously these arent bright fans but still you won't please everyone.

Geary the obvious captain
 
FQFjt said:
If you are right, and I don't doubt it, that exposes a serious flaw in the player development at the club. Would any captain from any other team not be in their top 6? It seems the Riewoldt era papered over a few too many cracks...
Click to expand...

Hurn definitely. Maybe Boak, Roughead, or Wood? Apart from that none IMO.

I think all it exposes is that our experienced core of players is lacking. But we already knew that. That's why we're not winning games, we don't have a really strong list of established B+ or A graders above 100 games.
 
Sheepey said:
Bumping this thread because it is still pertinent over two years later. Some things have changed from the OP, like that fact that Rice was a bust, but the problem remains. How do we fix it?
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Something we havent done for 12 years and thats recruit A grade midfielders with leadership qualities...
 

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Ducky Tie said:
It is a problem. There's no clear fix. Geary is old and not a lock. Ross is trash. Billings is an outside player and still goes missing. Not a captain's role imo.

Hanners can't stay on the park. Steele isn't in the leadership group and doesn't seem to be a massive talker.
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Where there's a will(kie) there's a way
 
Ducky Tie said:
It is a problem. There's no clear fix. Geary is old and not a lock. Ross is trash. Billings is an outside player and still goes missing. Not a captain's role imo.

Hanners can't stay on the park. Steele isn't in the leadership group and doesn't seem to be a massive talker.
Click to expand...
The solutions are clear and present.
It reminds me of a scene from Moneyball, where the coach refuses to play Brad Pitts guy at 1st, and to resolve the issue Pitt just trades out the coach's favored player.

Our issues are, that we have poor leaders, and no one below who's putting their hand up (or so we think)

Step one is to remove the primary problem. Gears to be retired and Ross to be traded.
In this scenario, the point of the exercise is to remove these guys for the greater benefit, so Ross can go for pick 99 if it facilitates the goal. Or pay him out. But just **** him off by any means available.

Now we've removed the poor leaders, there will be a vacuum.
As with any vacuum, something or someone will naturally move to occupy that space.

Since we know the current occupants aren't up to it, there's little to be lost by instituting change, even if it's change for change's sake.

In a practical world we can't honestly strip Gears of captaincy mid season, and as such he's still guaranteed a game.

The only immediate option is to drop Seb. An option that grows in legitimacy with almost every game now.

Essentially, we just gotta rip that bandaid off.
And although l hate to bring it up, that bandaid was placed, and entrenched, by he who shall not be named.

I'm looking for Ratts to work that appalling display into a positive outcome.
Not just to satisfy my personal prejudices, but for the progress of the team, Seb needs to be dropped whilst we investigate our alternatives.

I don't even mind if he comes back after a few weeks out. But we need to lance that boil whilst the opportunity is there.
 
ScrappyDo said:
The solutions are clear and present.
It reminds me of a scene from Moneyball, where the coach refuses to play Brad Pitts guy at 1st, and to resolve the issue Pitt just trades out the coach's favored player.

Our issues are, that we have poor leaders, and no one below who's putting their hand up (or so we think)

Step one is to remove the primary problem. Gears to be retired and Ross to be traded.
In this scenario, the point of the exercise is to remove these guys for the greater benefit, so Ross can go for pick 99 if it facilitates the goal. Or pay him out. But just **** him off by any means available.

Now we've removed the poor leaders, there will be a vacuum.
As with any vacuum, something or someone will naturally move to occupy that space.

Since we know the current occupants aren't up to it, there's little to be lost by instituting change, even if it's change for change's sake.

In a practical world we can't honestly strip Gears of captaincy mid season, and as such he's still guaranteed a game.

The only immediate option is to drop Seb. An option that grows in legitimacy with almost every game now.

Essentially, we just gotta rip that bandaid off.
And although l hate to bring it up, that bandaid was placed, and entrenched, by he who shall not be named.

I'm looking for Ratts to work that appalling display into a positive outcome.
Not just to satisfy my personal prejudices, but for the progress of the team, Seb needs to be dropped whilst we investigate our alternatives.

I don't even mind if he comes back after a few weeks out. But we need to lance that boil whilst the opportunity is there.
Click to expand...
If you want to look at people out of form - Hill would have to be dropped - last year he played 23 games and only picked up less than 20 touches 5 times out of 23 and this year he has only picked up 20 touches once in 6 games and is ● Ranked 9th in Total Clangers
But the guy GPS is off the charts so I would hope he regains his form.

I'd give the Captains job to Steele or Billings
 
I know it's a single action in a game of f**k ups and it's unfair to focus on it; but jeez that kick from Gears off HB with two minutes to go is absolutely the stuff of nightmares. For me it just showed up the problem - in a moment that big you _need_ the captain or VC to stand up, make the right decision, and have the skills to execute the right play; be it taking the big mark or making the absolute pinpoint kick or handball to set up play. Geary and Ross are just not those guys. Geary's disposal has always been iffy but Ross' is absolute trash now as well.

I wish (but then again, no) that they'd showed a wide shot of the ground because everyone (Saints) were ahead of the ball and surely there were loose men all over the shop (considering when the ball slingshotted back there was a frickin' 4 on 1 in Freo's forward line that led to the game winning goal).

EDIT: Just because I am a goddamn masochist I watched that play again. Gears had Hill on his immediate left unmarked and Jones a little further forward out on the wing, manned up but loosely. Butler was unmarked, in the corridor about ~20ishm ahead of Geary unmarked (definitely more than 15m though).
 
Last edited:
TheEnsign said:
I know it's a single action in a game of f**k ups and it's unfair to focus on it; but jeez that kick from Gears off HB with two minutes to go is absolutely the stuff of nightmares. For me it just showed up the problem - in a moment that big you _need_ the captain or VC to stand up, make the right decision, and have the skills to execute the right play; be it taking the big mark or making the absolute pinpoint kick or handball to set up play. Geary and Ross are just not those guys. Geary's disposal has always been iffy but Ross' is absolute trash now as well.

I wish (but then again, no) that they'd showed a wide shot of the ground because everyone (Saints) were ahead of the ball and surely there were loose men all over the shop (considering when the ball slingshotted back there was a frickin' 4 on 1 in Freo's forward line that led to the game winning goal).

EDIT: Just because I am a goddamn masochist I watched that play again. Gears had Hill on his immediate left unmarked and Jones a little further forward out on the wing, manned up but loosely. Butler was unmarked, in the corridor about ~20ishm ahead of Geary unmarked (definitely more than 15m though).
Click to expand...
Geary to be fair is still the best back pocket we have , but at 32 and just really a average player he is taking young players position who could become more value to the team.
 
I'd bypass all our "senior" players because its clear very few of them actually show any real leadership. Funnily enough big Jakey is probably the best of a bad bunch.

Unfortunately one of the few genuine young leaders we have (Luke Dunstan) isn't a starting 22.

Billings doesn't strike me as a leader, Steele seems to need to concentrate on his own game without the worry of captaincy. Lean pickings indeed.

Perhaps Dougall Howard can really turn it on and be seen as a definite long term player - he might be the one.
 
A core issue to resolve. I have no issue forcing Geary to take a back seat role, remaining in the back pocket while we bring in a new captain. I would look for a player on the field who already digs in when the going gets tough. The players that show that atm include Wilkie, Marshall and Butler. Who would have thought that it would not be a long term Sainter.
 
I've said it since Roo retired: Rotational Captaincy

2021 - Steele
2022 - Wilkie
2023 - Marshall
2024 - Clark
2025 - Coffield
 
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