Roast The Bad/Ugly v Geelong, Round 8, 2016

[Rear Admiral]

Two things:

Workrate - our mids have dropped off the dial when it comes to spread, both offensively and defensively. We matched them pretty well in close, but when we extract its a hurried hack kick, when they extract it's a chain of handballs with us flatfooted in their wake.

Gameplan - our one dimensional "suck up the pressure across half back then run and gun" took about 5 weeks to work out. Our i50 differential has blown out since then largely because of repeat inside 50s. This has seen our handball chains from half back diminish, our r50 methods revert to blind hack kicks as a result, and a return to the sloooooow switch from side to side as we try to free up space. Opposition teams have made Smith and Seedsman accountable, limiting their effectiveness. Gone is our corridor movement with quick, aggressive handball. All this has seen turnovers from us and the opposition pumping back in to their f50 with our defenders one out, and caught out of position.

We are not a quick team, but our first 5 weeks saw us be a quick ball moving team. Now, we just look slow, both athletically and ball movement wise. And as the pressure mounts and the gameplan fails, players start to panic and DE% falls down the toilet.

We knew the first 8 rounds would show us where we are, and here we are. I hope Pyke has the nuts to clean out. Here's what Im hoping happens:

Thommo is done and he should become the relief to M Crouch from here on in. M Crouch needs to become the new general - we recruited him for this reason, the time is now.

We need to give B Crouch the opportunity to find his match fitness and keep playing him in the ones. We need to know if he's good enough.

R Douglas needs to work out whether he still wants to play. I counted so many times where he was just jogging, 5 metres from a contest. CEY needs to come in for him and stay in for the remainder of the season. We've had him on our list for 6 years, he's shown a bit and is back in good form. Find out if he's good enough.

C Cameron needs to be included in midfield rotations. We needs his pace and his pressure. He may not have the engine yet, but he's got the talent and the passion. Play him there.

R Henderson is not a defender, get him out of there. Play him on a wing or GTFO. Wigg should have been in for Laird.

Riley Knight, when fit, needs to come in. Not DMac - ever again.

Stop playing unfit players. If Sauce is injured, spell him. If Tex has a bad foot, rest him. We need to start to show more faith in the next gen. They might be underdone and short of experience, but you bring them in when others are injured, give them a taste and make them hungry. Harry Dear showed enough in NAB challenge to have been given a week when Tex was no good. Sometimes these guys can look just ok in the SANFL because it's that kind of comp. The kid has ability, back him in, or lose him for nothing.

Pyke needs to decide - now - whether we are playing for this year, or for the next 4 years. We are no chance this year, so lets turn it over and reload. Im sick of seeing our senior players put in sub standard performances. They had their shot, it's passed for them. Next please.

Absolutely 101% right on the money. Nailed it. But what especially cuts right to the very bone is this comment below:

Pyke needs to decide - now - whether we are playing for this year, or for the next 4 years. We are no chance this year, so lets turn it over and reload. Im sick of seeing our senior players put in sub standard performances. They had their shot, it's passed for them. Next please.

I am absolutely convinced that Pyke (as well as previous coaches) were getting pressure from the Hierarchy not to rest/drop/delist veterans either because:

• It would be seen as capitulation/tanking/rebuilding.
• Blind faith and twisted loyalty to players that are past it.
• A combination of the above.

The very fact that we have not delisted the likes of van Berlo and MacKay screams the above points from the top of the highest building; no other team in their right mind would've kept these two. In regards to Thommo? If all our ground-level players were absolutely lightning quick and dynamic, then this might make up for his lack of run. But as mentioned we are not a quick side, and for this very reason we cannot hang onto our main #1 inside clearance Mid(s) who has/have cement-filled boots - we just can't. Unlike previous years, we now have a truckload of talented rookies playing out of their skins, who are just banging down the door at the selection table. The time for change is now....right f*cking now.

 

[Paladin]

Absolutely 101% right on the money. Nailed it. But what especially cuts right to the very bone is this comment below:



I am absolutely convinced that Pyke (as well as previous coaches) were getting pressure from the Hierarchy not to rest/drop/delist veterans either because:

• It would be seen as capitulation/tanking/rebuilding.
• Blind faith and twisted loyalty to players that are passed it.
• A combination of the above.

The very fact that we have not delisted the likes of van Berlo and MacKay screams the above points from the top of the highest building; no other team in their right mind would've kept these two. In regards to Thommo? If all our ground-level players were absolutely lightning quick and dynamic, then this might make up for his lack of run. But as mentioned we are not a quick side, and for this very reason we cannot hang onto our main #1 inside clearance Mid(s) who has/have cement-filled boots - we just can't. Unlike previous years, we now have a truckload of talented rookies playing out of their skins, who are just banging down the door at the selection table. The time for change is now....right f*cking now.

What are you talking about. VB got one game and Pyke is picking 7-8 talented kids every week.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Until we're prepared to start throwing the likes of Betts/Cameron/Smith/Laird/Milera in the Midfield mix (when we're so clearly getting beaten in some games), we're not going to take the next step. I have absolutely no problem with starting Thommo & Co. in the middle, but when we're just getting smashed in clearance after clearance after clearance, for f*ck's sake....we have to make a change . Like I said, no "Plan B".

I agree with all you've said, especially the injection of faster more skilled players into the middle.

The problem with Plan B is that 'Thommo & Co' can only play as inside mids…if we go to Plan B for any length of time where do we put them?

I'd rather we develop a team with less one-dimensional mids.

 

[Wright Away]

Have to agree. And we have to work towards it every year. Not sit here and say '' ok if we do this and this we will be a chance in 2019. '' Why not this year?
Then our definition of trying must be different then. Maybe yours is the Port Adelaide version where they send people off for surgery 2 months before the season ends. Mine is ,as I posted, having a crack right till the end. I don't think any Crows team in the time period you stated has done that.

Yeah that isnt how it works, see the last 18 years for proof, nowhere near a premiership.

 

[GreyCrow]

Yeah that isnt how it works, see the last 18 years for proof, nowhere near a premiership.

Nah you're right . Lets all hand our memberships in and not attend

 

[GreyCrow]

The very fact that we have not delisted the likes of van Berlo and MacKay screams the above points from the top of the highest building; no other team in their right mind would've kept these two. .

You got any pocket change to pay out Mackay?

 

[TheLeftFist8]

This week let's get Smith and Cameron into the midfield mix (CC on a wing).

Wouldn't mind Wigg coming in this week and then sharing a mid/defence role with Laird once Laird returns.

McGovern more midfield cameo's. Love it if Beech could find a spot as a forward/mid in rotation with McGovern. CEY in also (and initially in ahead of Beech if only one position available).

 

[Wright Away]

Nah you're right . Lets all hand our memberships in and not attend

Yeah that is what I am saying

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Rear Admiral]

What are you talking about. VB got one game and Pyke is picking 7-8 talented kids every week.

What am I talking about?

It's not that we're picking 7-8 talented kids every week, but the fact that we're now getting our arses handed to us in the clearances where we're still persisting with veteran Mids that have passed their peak and are on the down-slide. Namely Thommo, MacKay (when not injured), and Douglas. And we're doing this while we've got rookies tearing the SANFL apart and smashing down the door at the selection table.

 

[Rear Admiral]

You got any pocket change to pay out Mackay?

We made the mistake of extending his contract through the stratosphere years ago while the majority of supporters were screaming to show him the door, so the Hierarchy will have to wear that mistake, but hopefully they'll learn from it. But in the mean time, don't give him a senior Guernsey again. Ever.

 

[Rear Admiral]

Good post .

The problem with Plan B is that 'Thommo & Co' can only play as inside mids…if we go to Plan B for any length of time where do we put them?

The answer to that one is p1ss plain simple - don't give them a Guernsey. As I've mentioned (along with other people in this forum) - we've got rookies just champing at the bit to get a gig in the Senior Side. "Thommo & Co." have been given more than enough of a chance - enough's enough.
Cameron Ellis-Yolmen, Brucey Laird, Crouch Junior & Senior, Brodie Smith, Milera, Charlie Cameron, Eddie Betts - I'd mix & match and give all of these guys a run through the middle. Make the same selections, week in, week out? Absolutely not. But to try them all and mix it up has got to be a better option than what we're persisting with at the moment. We just do not have ground-level Mids at the stoppages that are Finals material - the only exception being Sloane and to a lesser extent, Crouch Junior. We have just got to inject some pace, flair, and lateral agility into the stoppages, not just the same ol', same ol'.

And in regards to a "Plan B"? You answered it perfectly in your next comment, where you can look at the players I mentioned above.

I'd rather we develop a team with less one-dimensional mids.

 

[Doctor B]

We were outplayed in the middle, Sloane played a fantastic game. They just looked so much faster than us, Guthrie just seemed so confident that he could outrun us every time he had the ball. This trading period we need to recruit a fast midfielder with elite skills, sounds easy .

Our midfield is very young (excluding Thommo who will retire at the end of this year) the 9 players that rolled through our midfield on Friday night averaged only 64 games.
Brouch 29, Sloane 126, Seed 57, Atkins 16, Smith 105, Douglas 179, Milera 5, M Crouch33, Cameron 33.
Taking Bartel out of their averages (same boat as Thommo) the 9 players rolling through their midfield averaged 97 games including Ruggles playing his 5th game and Lang 28.

We really need to buy in an experienced midfielder, its our biggest need by far.

As much as I like Lyons, CEY and Grigg do they have the pace to slot into our midfield? Especially if we have Thommo M Crouch playing in there. I dont get to any SANFL games, do Doedee, Wigg, Menzel or Greenwood have speed and skills to make a difference in our midfield this year?

It will be interesting to see how we go against the GWS midfield in 2 weeks, they are very fast, and I think Mumford will be giving them first look too.

 

[mistylake]

Absolutely 101% right on the money. Nailed it. But what especially cuts right to the very bone is this comment below:



I am absolutely convinced that Pyke (as well as previous coaches) were getting pressure from the Hierarchy not to rest/drop/delist veterans either because:

• It would be seen as capitulation/tanking/rebuilding.
• Blind faith and twisted loyalty to players that are passed it.
• A combination of the above.

The very fact that we have not delisted the likes of van Berlo and MacKay screams the above points from the top of the highest building; no other team in their right mind would've kept these two. In regards to Thommo? If all our ground-level players were absolutely lightning quick and dynamic, then this might make up for his lack of run. But as mentioned we are not a quick side, and for this very reason we cannot hang onto our main #1 inside clearance Mid(s) who has/have cement-filled boots - we just can't. Unlike previous years, we now have a truckload of talented rookies playing out of their skins, who are just banging down the door at the selection table. The time for change is now....right f*cking now.

Who is banging the doors down?

 

[mistylake]

I agree with all you've said, especially the injection of faster more skilled players into the middle.

The problem with Plan B is that 'Thommo & Co' can only play as inside mids…if we go to Plan B for any length of time where do we put them?

I'd rather we develop a team with less one-dimensional mids.

 

[Mattrox]

Who is banging the doors down?

It doesn't matter if anyone is in better form...

We need change right f&*cking now, didn't you hear the man?

 

[mistylake]

It doesn't matter if anyone is in better form...

We need change right f&*cking now, didn't you hear the man?

I thought. We must have had a few players who blitzed it in the Snafel this weekend.

 

[Mattrox]

I thought. We must have had a few players who blitzed it in the Snafel this weekend.

We did. None of them lost any of their contests.

 

[mistylake]

We did. None of them lost any of their contests.

Off to SANFL thread

 

[Mattrox]

Off to SANFL thread

I hope you realise I was taking the Mickey coz we had the bye.

 

[mistylake]

I hope you realise I was taking the Mickey coz we had the bye.

* do we have a bye every second week. Are the SANFL trolling us.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Growing pains with team defense? Talia has looked uncomfortable making the transition from his one on one role, and our possession numbers have been lower in general this year.

Kept an in form Hawkins to 0.3 and 8 disposals and had 12 disposals himself. He's consistently been fantastic for us, he is the absolute last of our problems.

 

[skoobydoo]

Stats show we only lost the clearances by 2. But the big difference surely is the quality of clearance. We were once good (years ago) at clean clearances. We haven't been there for some years now. Good teams can extract the pill (and of course this often takes some gutbusting repetitive gruelling work) and work it to 'outside' players who can spirit the ball forward. I watched WB again today and they are superb with their taking possession, their awareness (born of teammates working to position and run outside) and the often instantaneous handball clear and clean to outside movers. I'm not kidding, their ball movement is a huge pressure release (not talking about their forward work ! ). Other teams do this also. We rarely do it, particularly post PD. We rarely come out with clean positive movement. It is often a defensive loop to try to get forward under pressure, an across ground nowhere ball or, most usually, a hacked kick with little penetration and blind general direction. We then get picked off most times.
Just racking up clearance stats does not mean we are winning clearances. So often the hacked clearance sets up an intercept mark (Ha!), opposition goal shot or comes spearing back over or through to catch us badly out of position.
We have got to be better with an outside game. To me, after the grunt work, it is the essence of the midfield game.


I think we are not quite on the intense strength and intent at the stoppage contests. Our 'ground ball' cleanliness is poor and often not fully committed. Sure we work hard, some would say really hard, but we are not as skilled as other teams at collectively working a disputed (tackled)possession to our advantage. Maybe because our disposal opportunity horizon is pretty much inside and rarely outside. So often we hot potato dinky hand-off to teammates in equally bad situations, or who are flat footed facing the wrong way etc. Maybe we need to hit harder/tougher on the inside. Don't know what to think on our intent at the moment.



Now our ability to clear from the goal line defence. This season we rate at the bad end of clubs for conceding I50 stats. Now I'm assuming that every running or kicked ball that crosses the line is recorded as I50. I have yet to watch the last half against Geelong but I suspect it is more of the same ping pong in and out of the Geelong 50, and we are so poor at moving the ball out of defence. It must re-enter numerous times and stat up because of that.
All this is more credit to our defenders on the last line, 'cos maybe our scores against should be worse.

At least we varied our kickins in the first half I saw. But what I notice is so many players are STATIC! Poor kicking aside, we may be standing in space but other teams have worked out they can close us out quickly and force a turnover. We are mostly stationary. Non-dynamic, little initiative! We do not seem to be able to move and structure up at the fall of long kicks out of defence to look to win possession and maybe slingshot or rebound. But maybe I'm simplifying it too much. We look devoid of ideas, constrained and almost disadvantaged.

 

[fairfooty]

Rory Sloane is the heart and soul of this club. Should be captain.

Told you - years ago when everyone was chanting for Dangerfield to be Captain. But still willing to cut Tex a bit of slack... for the moment

 

[fairfooty]

Good
Rory S, Charlie and Tex's first quarter. Charlie was sublime for a first game back.

Bad
Bogan Geelong supporters who have no idea how to behave in enemy territory to make sure its a good evening for everyone. Believe me, they were shocking. I was ready to smack the kid in front of us.

Ugly
That the umps reamed Geelong - can't these unprofessional idiots get it right?

 

[Ramify]

Kept an in form Hawkins to 0.3 and 8 disposals and had 12 disposals himself. He's consistently been fantastic for us, he is the absolute last of our problems.

Champ one on one, but really needs to provide an "out" option and tidy his disposal up. Absolute liability with ball in hand.