The Banfield Conundrum

[Harris Specter]

But they have shown enough potential as footballers to suggest they're on the improve. I'm still unsure whether or not Todd is actually a good footballer. Leaning towards keeping him on now, though.

So has Banfield in retrospect. His first year was phenomenal and his pressure was immense. Just shows what confidence can do to blokes. Banfield has shown more than enough to be a good footballer, it's just a matter of consistency with sticking tackles, less fumbles and straighter kicking.

 

[Grimreepah]

Send him to a psychologist. At his best he isn't perfect, but is still a good player, and in our best 22. He's almost in our best 22 even when out of form, such is the specialised nature of his role. Fix his mental state and we've then got something to work with again.

 

[POBT]

But I think it is undeniable that our list has evolved considerably over the past year. With Longer, Docherty, Polec, Karnezis, Golby, McGrath, Drummond, Leuenberger, Staker and Maguire presumably good chances of being in our best 22 next season

I find it really hard to accept that Longer, Docherty, Karnezis, Polec will be better chances of playing senior footy ahead of Banfield. He's just as much in the mix as those guys - moreso when you consider that he's a bit older and a bit more developed. This seems like a case of under-valuing actual performance and over-rating potential.

I'm neither here nor there on Banfield as a footballer so this isn't a defence of him at all. I've been critical of him this year. Previously, I liked him mostly because what he offered was unique to us - no longer necessarily the case with others coming through.

But I reckon the bloke is being judged on the basis of a pretty ordinary season without any real credit being offered for what he's done in the past. He's a 22yo, 4th year small forward with 50 games and 50 goals to his name. I just can't see that we're going to look to move him on - that would be myopic IMO.

 

[ozgamer]

Far from a lost cause. Banfield stays for now.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

I find it really hard to accept that Longer, Docherty, Karnezis, Polec will be better chances of playing senior footy ahead of Banfield. He's just as much in the mix as those guys - moreso when you consider that he's a bit older and a bit more developed. This seems like a case of under-valuing actual performance and over-rating potential.

I'm neither here nor there on Banfield as a footballer so this isn't a defence of him at all. I've been critical of him this year. Previously, I liked him mostly because what he offered was unique to us - no longer necessarily the case with others coming through.

But I reckon the bloke is being judged on the basis of a pretty ordinary season without any real credit being offered for what he's done in the past. He's a 22yo, 4th year small forward with 50 games and 50 goals to his name. I just can't see that we're going to look to move him on - that would be myopic IMO.

I was talking more about who the coaching staff would see as having best 22 potential ahead of them. Each of the guys I mentioned would have to be expected to be part of our best side at some point in the future, and I'm just not sure if Banners is anymore. To be fair, I worded it very poorly so am not surprised by the confusion.

I guess I'm just a little worried that he'll become a Sam Sheldon type by the end of next season. I wouldn't be surprised to see the club trade him this year, but if we do keep him on I really hope he's able to develop the areas of his game that are lacking, as we could really use the pace he brings to the table.

 

[GingerGreatness]

Apologies if already raised but as of 18 October 2011 (ie. less than one year ago) we traded for Zorko. Kerr said the following re: the strategy of trade week:

There were a couple of key strategic drivers for the week,
...
2. Re-balance our list with some targeted player trades that would assist with our team structure in 2012 and beyond. Prior to Trade Week we felt we could achieve this by:

a) ...

b) Support our tall targets by adding a player who can apply genuine defensive pressure in the forward line and, in doing so, might allow Todd Banfield to move up the ground
...
Todd Banfield, our quickest player, has been asked to do the chasing for others. One adjustment that we wanted to make to our team was to put some additional ‘wheels’ around our tall forwards. On this basis, Dayne Zorko came into consideration.

Appreciate a week is a long time in footy, let alone a year, but if we've gone from going into trade week 2011 with one of the key goals being to trade so as to accomodate Toddy, to declaring 12 months later that he's excess to our needs and looking to trade him off, then our recruiters are remarkably brilliant.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Appreciate a week is a long time in footy, let alone a year, but if we've gone from going into trade week 2011 with one of the key goals being to trade so as to accomodate Toddy, to declaring 12 months later that he's excess to our needs and looking to trade him off, then our recruiters are remarkably brilliant.

What I find a little ironic is that Zorko has actually moved into the midfield, and most would rather him there and Banners up forward than the other way around.

I've been watching games from earlier in the year back to put together highlights, and have come to the conclusion that I must be suffering from a bit of memory loss with Todd, he had some very good moments. Firmly a 'keep him' member now.

 

[GingerGreatness]

What I find a little ironic is that Zorko has actually moved into the midfield, and most would rather him there and Banners up forward than the other way around.

I've been watching games from earlier in the year back to put together highlights, and have come to the conclusion that I must be suffering from a bit of memory loss with Todd, he had some very good moments. Firmly a 'keep him' member now.

As cynical as it sounds, my theory is that this year it has been tough to find a whipping boy. As Sheldon hasn't been selected, Stiller rarely selected and Hawksley rarely selected, the communal blokes to sledge in terms of little output were Banners and Polks. Polks came good (to a degree), leaving Toddy (reported injuries or not) the last man standing.

His providing defensive pressure rarely gets him a stat, making him easier to pot shot. Add to that he's usually playing "the most difficult position on the ground" and he might as well have a bulls-eye on his chest.

I'm not saying he was great - he was terrible - but the kicking he's gotten this year is circumstancial to a large degree IMO. Completely agree that he had some real highlights earlier on in the year.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

As cynical as it sounds, my theory is that this year it has been tough to find a whipping boy. As Sheldon hasn't been selected, Stiller rarely selected and Hawksley rarely selected, the communal blokes to sledge in terms of little output were Banners and Polks. Polks came good (to a degree), leaving Toddy (reported injuries or not) the last man standing.

His providing defensive pressure rarely gets him a stat, making him easier to pot shot. Add to that he's usually playing "the most difficult position on the ground" and he might as well have a bulls-eye on his chest.

I'm not saying he was great - he was terrible - but the kicking he's gotten this year is circumstancial to a large degree IMO. Completely agree that he had some real highlights earlier on in the year.

Yeah that's a fair point. It's frustrating with things seem to be going so well

Hopefully Todd has a great pre-season and bursts out of the blocks in 2013. If he was able to harness the potential that he's shown in a few games this year (there was a beautiful one touch pickup running goal he kicked against Carlton in round 2), as well as all that he's shown beforehand, he could be invaluable to us. I'll be tracking his development closely from here, as it seemed that when he came to the club there were low expectations on him that have now risen. It'll be interesting to see if he can rise to meet them.

 

[Grimreepah]

If Sherman is any guide, the International Rules curse still has a while to run its course.

 

[charles202]

What concerns me about Banners playing full time as a small forward is his set shots at goal. He doesnt have the excuse that some of the big fellas have in that the ball has so far to drop from hand to foot.

He does so much of the hard stuff but doesnt take advantage of it often enough.

 

[weevil]

But I reckon the bloke is being judged on the basis of a pretty ordinary season without any real credit being offered for what he's done in the past. He's a 22yo, 4th year small forward with 50 games and 50 goals to his name. I just can't see that we're going to look to move him on - that would be myopic IMO.

Yeah a lot of BF folk have shocking short term memory syndrome. They can’t remember anything that happened more than a few games back.

You don’t just throw players with talent out the window first time they strike trouble.

He has some serious attributes but his programming seems scrambled and his hands turn to mush when his confidence is down.

Reminds me a lot of Aka when his career really hit the crossroads early on. He had been played exclusively up forward and he started struggling badly with a lot of people saying he should be cut. Lethal threw him in the backline, totally changed him as a player. The mental shackles were removed and the rest was history.

Tod’s hands are not a problem when his confidence is up. I think he is running round in circles trying to create play. Think he needs a complete change, have said it before but I want to see him given an extended run behind the ball or on a wing.

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

Must keep. We need pace. I love the little rangas. Get him and Green in the same side please.

 

[luthor]

it's just a matter of consistency with sticking tackles, less fumbles and straighter kicking.

Apart from that he's really good

 

[The Golfing Lion]

I think his real value is that his pace is our biggest weakness. However with Green, Zorko and Beams adding to the sides speed, his other weaknesses are more exposed. This is a job for the coaches..... He should not have a ball out of his hand till pre season starts. Confidence will come from belief.

 

[blynd_freddie]

If Sherman is any guide, the International Rules curse still has a while to run its course.

With his red hair he should be able to sneak a couple of runs for the Irish - Hasn't Hanley proven that this is a 'reverse of the curse'?

 

[Grimreepah]

With his red hair he should be able to sneak a couple of runs for the Irish - Hasn't Hanley proven that this is a 'reverse of the curse'?

Hanley doesn't seem to have been affected. Perhaps he played with his fingers crossed.

 

[salty parish]

Banfields mind is quicker than his skills. He knows what he wants to do but he appears to be taking his eye off the ball -hence he fumbles. If he can gain some composure and keep his eye on the ball he will have a much better 2013 imo.

 

[mpal6]

Trade him now and he'll make us look very stupid.

Came from nowhere, put on a lot of size in one preseason and became our best 22 player in 2010. He has already shown there is no lack of work ethic. If he has been hampered by injury/poor form, we need to back him to come good in 2013.

We have two forwards who can be released to midfield permanently (green/zorko) once Banfield gets going again. Very valuable player to our forward line mix.

 

[beatnik]

Reminds me a lot of Aka when his career really hit the crossroads early on. He had been played exclusively up forward and he started struggling badly with a lot of people saying he should be cut. Lethal threw him in the backline, totally changed him as a player. The mental shackles were removed and the rest was history.

Tod’s hands are not a problem when his confidence is up. I think he is running round in circles trying to create play. Think he needs a complete change, have said it before but I want to see him given an extended run behind the ball or on a wing.

spot on Weevil, great comparison

I'd love to see him given an extended run in a back pocket...

 

[Gibbo_88]

Definitely not trade bait!!

We don't give up on a player who has shown a lot in his first two seasons and had an injury-riddled season this year.
I'll give him another year to show us he's capable of it again. His speed around contests and breaking away in clearances is a HUGE asset.

I'll admit I've got a soft spot for him, but he has been very harshly judged this season with a suspected injury cloud over him.

Loved watching those video's of him. The two reserves games I saw this year his kicks weren't really to advantage and even his handpasses were falling a metre short or wide. Without the confidence in your disposal you couldn't be picking the ball up cleanly. Really hope it clicks for him.

 

[ZoBlitz]

Yeah, he's obviously playing at the moment like someone who's lost confidence. Who knows, a break from footy and a good preseason next year and he may be up and about again. Definitely wouldn't trade him at this point.

 

[luthor]

I don't buy all the excuses being offered up here for Banfield.

Down on confidence, has an injury, needs a run in the midfield or on the wing, should play back pocket, another Aker in the making, he's really fast but just looks slow,has good hands but is just trying too hard,kicks like crap for goal but that's 'cause he has a bad knee.....blah blah...etc etc.

The fact is, he's had more chances at cementing a spot in the A's this season than 3 or 4 of much-maligned "fringe" players on our list......and been an abject failure. If his injuries were that debilitating, why did he keep getting picked? Why was he slotted virtually straight back into the side(at Greens' expense) after he recovered from the stress fracture problem?

Ok, he has credits from last season but.....IMO they have well and truly expired

For those ruminating about giving him a shot at the midfield or on the wing or in the back pocket.....exactly which of our already established( or semi-established) small to medium players in these positions are you going to kick out,just so we can accommodate Banners, bearing in mind there are only 22 spots available every week.?

Backline: Adcock?.....Drummond, ....Golby.....Harwood?....Lester?

Not to mention Yeo who has come on nicely and Docherty who surely must get a go early in 2013

Even the much disparaged Hawksely, arguably has better claims than Banners, based on disclosed form.

Wing or midfield:....too many options(far better than Banners) to list.

Which brings us back to the small forward role:

Anybody out there game to suggest Zorko or Green should stand aside for Toddy?....and then there's the small matter of fitting Ash McGrath back in the side .

Finally ...the "let's keep him 'cause he's a "depth" player" argument......total rubbish.... depth players are a dime a dozen:

Stiller, Sheldon, Hawkesly, Buchanan, are all depth players too....and have at least shown something in a variety of roles in the past....who needs "depth" specialist small forwards?
Bottom line is that , I am really finding it hard to see where Banfield actually fits in our plans....(and dare I say it??)................GOING FORWARD.

It probably won't happen but I strongly believe there is a really good argument to put Banfield on the trade table , sooner rather than later,

 

[Sanchez365]

I thought that Banfield played mainly as a midfielder in his junior days? I've always been surprised that he has rarely been tried in that position in the AFL. He seems to have the engine to do it.

 

[Eons]

I thought that Banfield played mainly as a midfielder in his junior days? I've always been surprised that he has rarely been tried in that position in the AFL. He seems to have the engine to do it.

He did. Watching some of his highlights before he was drafted, sad to say, not much has changed. He had incredible speed but he was a poor user of the footy and had terrible hands. His forward pressure is elite but you need to be able to offer more than that as a forward. Green and Zorko do that and they're much better users of the footy. Going forward, I don't think we'll see him being a regular in the seniors barring injury.