The Battle of Cronulla Beach: ITS ON!

[Bombers 2003]

yeah and the islander bro's to

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

 

[arrowman]

YOU are one stupid Dud.

Um, yeah. Yep. OK. {backs away slowly, smiling}

 

[section8]

Not all Lebanese are Muslims you fool. There is a lot of Lebanese christians...
This is not an religious/cultural issue. It's a behavioural issue.
There are problems throughout the world.
I find you sterotyping Lebanese as cause of most of Australia's problems offensive.
You are part of the 'ugly' side of Australia.

I think certain Lebanese stereotyping Australians is a far more pressing problem.

 

[arrowman]

Thats a more reasonable and accurate perspective, but still wrong IMO. Are you suggesting that some of the people there should have become vigilantes, taken the law into their own hands and started doing the poilce job of containing the rioters, swinging batons around and making citizen arrests etc. I don't think the police would agree with this approach. What should the protestors who disagreed with the violence have done in your opinion?

People have a right to protest in this country, but it does not make them responsible for the actions of the minority of radical violent protestors who break the law.

Thanks for saving me the trouble.

"The 4800 who stood and watched are just as responsible" is simply a desparate stretch to try and exaggerate the issue.

 

[Mad Dog]

FWIW....

It's been interesting reading everybody's views on this......some are polls apart....but most are pretty moderate. I don't live in Sydney so I don't pretend to be across all the issues - but from what I've seen, most would agree that this current situation has been inflamed by the perceived inaction by law enforcement agencies in holding thugs and criminals of all backgrounds to account for their actions. Whether it be lifesaver bashing, raping, rousting up of ethnic minorities, or terrorising the general community....the main grievance on all sides seems to be that not enough is done to prosecute socially unacceptable behaviour before it escalates into criminal behaviour. Obviously there are more complexities associated with the racial question - and clearly Governments are faced with the challenge of determininig whether multiculturalism was the right way to go in the first place. While some criticism of the Howard Government is warranted on this issue.......I find it mildly amusing that people can hold politicians entirely responsible for a basic human predisposition to be wary and suspiscious of all things different to them....which includes racism.

Racism has been a problem in human history since Adam wore short pants.

Sure - most of us rise above it and embrace the cultural differences that set us apart......but as with anything - there is always a percentage who will be predisposed to hatred for whatever reason, and criminal behaviour for whatever reason.

This kind of conflict has been happening in most countries around the world since the dawn of time - and an ever increasing rate of urbanisation over the past 100 years has served to magnify race issues.

Why do we think this country is any different to other countries? We are going to have our fair share of racial issues as people from more and more diverse ethnic backgrounds choose to call Australia home. Australia will just become a microcosim of global society on all issues - including race.

What I'm trying to get to is that "******** happens"......there will always be a section of any society that choose to live their lives alternate to what we would consider "socially acceptable".....and generally these are the same people who see race as an issue and will resort to violence to defend their insecurities and prejudices.

Bottom line is Australia is no different and we shouldn't kid ourselves in believing that any Government can legislate to prevent hatred and bigotry infecting the weakminded among us.

 

[arrowman]

^^^ Word.

 

[PA HOG]

FWIW....

It's been interesting reading everybody's views on this......some are polls apart....but most are pretty moderate. I don't live in Sydney so I don't pretend to be across all the issues - but from what I've seen, most would agree that this current situation has been inflamed by the perceived inaction by law enforcement agencies in holding thugs and criminals of all backgrounds to account for their actions. Whether it be lifesaver bashing, raping, rousting up of ethnic minorities, or terrorising the general community....the main grievance on all sides seems to be that not enough is done to prosecute socially unacceptable behaviour before it escalates into criminal behaviour. Obviously there are more complexities associated with the racial question - and clearly Governments are faced with the challenge of determininig whether multiculturalism was the right way to go in the first place. While some criticism of the Howard Government is warranted on this issue.......I find it mildly amusing that people can hold politicians entirely responsible for a basic human predisposition to be wary and suspiscious of all things different to them....which includes racism.

Racism has been a problem in human history since Adam wore short pants.

Sure - most of us rise above it and embrace the cultural differences that set us apart......but as with anything - there is always a percentage who will be predisposed to hatred for whatever reason, and criminal behaviour for whatever reason.

This kind of conflict has been happening in most countries around the world since the dawn of time - and an ever increasing rate of urbanisation over the past 100 years has served to magnify race issues.

Why do we think this country is any different to other countries? We are going to have our fair share of racial issues as people from more and more diverse ethnic backgrounds choose to call Australia home. Australia will just become a microcosim of global society on all issues - including race.

What I'm trying to get to is that "******** happens"......there will always be a section of any society that choose to live their lives alternate to what we would consider "socially acceptable".....and generally these are the same people who see race as an issue and will resort to violence to defend their insecurities and prejudices.

Bottom line is Australia is no different and we shouldn't kid ourselves in believing that any Government can legislate to prevent hatred and bigotry infecting the weakminded among us.

I find little in your post to debate. However, whilst you acknowledge that serious problems exist, you are not providing your thoughts on solutions. Clearly the current situation is intolerable. Surely you are not suggesting the problems at Cronulla, for example, are unsolvable or at least "improvable"?

 

[Murray]

I find little in your post to debate. However, whilst you acknowledge that serious problems exist, you are not providing your thoughts on solutions. Clearly the current situation is intolerable. Surely you are not suggesting the problems at Cronulla, for example, are unsolvable or at least "improvable"?

or that we should ignore them as just being a part of history

 

[WA ROO]

or that we should ignore them as just being a part of history

like you ignoring what happened in Cronulla and Maroubra the last two nights

 

[BlueMark]

Anyone mentioned that the "bra boys were implicated in the drug traffiking and two were charged with the execution murder of a gangland figure and dumping his body over a cliff.

Nice people.

 

[Mad Dog]

I find little in your post to debate. However, whilst you acknowledge that serious problems exist, you are not providing your thoughts on solutions. Clearly the current situation is intolerable. Surely you are not suggesting the problems at Cronulla, for example, are unsolvable or at least "improvable"?

The solutions should be the same as what they are with any other criminal activity. The community needs to have confidence that law enforcement agencies will respond to, deal with, and prosecute if necessary any activity that falls outside the law regardless of whether the perpetrators are black white yellow red green or crimson.

The frustration felt by all can be traced back to the fact that nothing is done about unlawful behaviour......and so they see the need (wrongly) to take matters into their own hands.

Intimidation and abuse of innocents in the community no matter their background or gender is something that cannot be tolerated but from what I see has gone unchecked for too long.

Racism. intimidation, and victimisation based on religious or cultural belief is a form of terrorism IMO.....maybe it's time the police saw it the same way and acted accordingly.

 

[arrowman]

I find little in your post to debate. However, whilst you acknowledge that serious problems exist, you are not providing your thoughts on solutions. Clearly the current situation is intolerable. Surely you are not suggesting the problems at Cronulla, for example, are unsolvable or at least "improvable"?

FWIW - I largely agree with Mad Dog's post in reply to this. I would also say that

- "Improvable" is more likely than "solvable". It is probably unrealistic to except that such issues can ever completely go away. Indeed, perhaps the assumption that the problem can be completely solved is a bad place to start from in seeking solutions.

Certainly some things are not part of the solution, for example, assuming that it’s all about Anglo racists and that the ethnic connection has no relevance at all.

 

[PA HOG]

The solutions should be the same as what they are with any other criminal activity. The community needs to have confidence that law enforcement agencies will respond to, deal with, and prosecute if necessary any activity that falls outside the law regardless of whether the perpetrators are black white yellow red green or crimson.

The frustration felt by all can be traced back to the fact that nothing is done about unlawful behaviour......and so they see the need (wrongly) to take matters into their own hands.

Intimidation and abuse of innocents in the community no matter their background or gender is something that cannot be tolerated but from what I see has gone unchecked for too long.

Racism. intimidation, and victimisation based on religious or cultural belief is a form of terrorism IMO.....maybe it's time the police saw it the same way and acted accordingly.

That's what I have been saying all along. But the community at large has to stand up and make their concerns known to the authorities but in the Australian way, not by using the imported methods of “soccer crowd” type violence.

 

[PA HOG]

FWIW - I largely agree with Mad Dog's post in reply to this. I would also say that

- "Improvable" is more likely than "solvable". It is probably unrealistic to except that such issues can ever completely go away. Indeed, perhaps the assumption that the problem can be completely solved is a bad place to start from in seeking solutions.

Certainly some things are not part of the solution, for example, assuming that it’s all about Anglo racists and that the ethnic connection has no relevance at all.

That's right. Nobody has the total solution but that isn't sufficient reason to not make a start. Let's not concern ourselves with the schoolyard excuse of, "he started it!" I'm sure that any improvement will be welcomed by the frustrated residents of these beach suburbs. Usually when action starts to alter an area there is a snowballing effect. Making the beaches safe is probably the "easiest" part of the project. The complete resolution probably requires a redesign of us human beings.

 

[mcgarnacle]

The behaviour of the ethic gangs since the mob has been worthy of condemnation too, they lashed out against anybody available making it quite clear that they consider areas such as Maroubra and Brighton as much responsible as Cronulla. All they are doing is adding legitimacy to all reasons the Cronulla mob got together in the first place.

Brighton-Le-Sands is primarily ethnic - Greek in fact. However, it is popular with many on a Sunday evening particularly Lebanese. I'd say they were in the area, saw the Australian flag at the RSL and decided to burn it. I wouldn't have thought that it was an organised retaliation as we saw in Maroubra on Sunday and Cronulla last night.

I'll re-iterate what I mentioned earlier. Interstaters can deny all they like but as a citizen of Sydney having has observed first hand on beach/mall/trains the actions of many Lebanese who frequent Cronulla, the actions of Sunday were a stand against many incidents which have taken place in the region. It wasn't merely a retaliation for events involving lifeguards the previous week. The spark? yes. but no the underlying reason. Young men of middle eastern appearance have intimidated locals of the Sutherland shire for years with little or no response from the police. Don't let PC get in the way of doing their job.

 

[spoljar]

What a shameful period for Australian History!

For starters, the idiots 'protesting' against the lebanese on Sunday became no better than the people they were protesting against when they started abusing, attacking and beating innocent people! And how un Australian to attack Ambulances that are simply trying to get injured people out! What a bunch of hooligans!

Than to the idiots who tried to than prove how tough they are by destroying property and abusing women and children! What a bunch of cowards!

Both groups of so called Australians simply proved what idiots thay are and the lot should be deported!

 

[crazy_big_al]

Great Mad Dog

 

[Thursfield7]

bring on terrorism

 

[Kurt Angle ©]

I say the more Lebeanese in this country the merrier. Most of them have enriched this country.

Source ?

 

[Kurt Angle ©]

There might of only been 10 people doing it, but there was 5000 not stopping it watching it occur or cheering it on, there just as responsible as the guys who did it.

Which is the problem of the ENTIRE muslim lebanese community in Sydney.

It may not be the entire community committing the crimes, but the rest are sitting by while a sizable element are acting in a criminal manner.

 

[medusala]

Not all Lebanese are Muslims you fool. There is a lot of Lebanese christians...
This is not an religious/cultural issue. It's a behavioural issue.
.

So a few hundred youths standing outside a mosque yelling how good allah is has nothing to do with religion? Or were the press reports simply wrong?

 

[West Coast Fan 123]

So a few hundred youths standing outside a mosque yelling how good allah is has nothing to do with religion? Or were the press reports simply wrong?

Apparantley there was going to be an attack on the mosque so the lebanese muslims went as a show of force to protect it.

But I thnk what he meant is that the mob attacked all middle eastern people not just lebanese or lebanese muslims and so the problem is with crowd and mob violence which I disagree with.

 

[ManWithNoName]

This is the most shameful episode in Australias history. Did the ANZACs die for this? Did they die so we could assault and abuse people based purely on their country of origin or religon? Anyone who in the slightest way thinks that what happened was the right thing is a pathetic, weak excuse for a human being.

 

[pube_]

Not defending the Cronulla riot, but this issue is clearly a religious/cultural problem. The problem stems from Muslims (whether Leb or otherwise) not respecting the law, not assimilating, intimidating others (non-muslim). It seems people are forgetting the decades of intimidation and disrespect perpertrated before the Cronulla riot due to the last 2 days of actual rioting.

 

[mark73]

you are one stupid ******** dude

but away from a computer and internet chat forum,probably close to the truth....