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Unsolved The Beaumont Children

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BonzaRam said:
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In this case they are using it to replace 'sociopathy'. While the paper is from 2016, the origins appear to be in the 1970's, since then psychiatrists have used the word 'sociopathy'. I was doing a placement in Royal Park psyche hospital in the early eighties and this discussion came up, because at that time Royal Park had a number of long term inmates. One of the other students talked about them as psychopaths and received an ear bashing from one of the psyches that these were not psychopaths, they were people with untreatable psychosis, usually due to schizophrenia. He then distinguished it from the 'sociopathy' of the the folks with antisocial personality disorder - much as I did in the earlier posts. Psychopath is a very loaded word and is generally avoided in modern psychiatry.
 
johnymac1 said:
That point seems to be ignored by SW and BH. They keep going on about the Geographic profile. Surely they should go out and look for someone that lived close and is a match to the sketch, but they haven't. MC have dropped the Phipps line of enquiry for good reason. Phipps doesn't fit the Profile.
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I agree, Phipps doesn't fit the physical profile. Geographical profile: In my research, I have read the 10km radius is the distance of geographical filing of criminals. It would be good to know statistics on abductions close to home. Given Phipps' standing in the community, IMO I don't think he would take the risk in his own backyard. As I have mentioned previously, it is also more likely someone would recognise him.
 
BonzaRam said:
Ummm what you are describing is more like narcissism not psychopathy.

Psychopaths do not experience emotions, they do fake emotions in order to manipulate though. It is all an act in order to fool society seen as they see all others as inferior anyway. They don't feel any need to rationalize their actions, they just do it, without remorse.

A sociopath is more inclined to experience emotions but not in a strong way, their emotional responses are often very weak. They rationalize their behavior and it is when confronted about their actions/behavior that they may lose the plot so to speak.

So in answer to your question
A psychopath? NO
A sociopath? MAYBE
A Narcissist? YES

I have done numerous searches for info on your POI, and with the exception of that one newspaper article, I simply can't find any. Was he diagnosed as a psychopath or a sociopath? or are they terms you have chosen to use?
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Thanks for responding.
As I have said many times, my POI flew completely under the radar, until that day. He virtually lived in the same house, he never owned a home, never married. The more we reflect, the more we see how he was protected.

Part of the problem with this was caused by the archaic statute of limitation laws in SA. A person could only be charge with child sex offences within three years of the crime. As history goes, most people don't talk about being molested, until they are in they are a teenager/young adult. His victims, didn't even talk about it between themselves. By that time, it was too late. As I have always called it, his legal walk of freedom.
When we were called in to have a chat with major crime Detectives in 95/96,(a whole other chapter) I believe they also interviewed LW. He could have admitted to everything and still not been charged. Legal walk of freedom.
When he was charged, he couldn't even be remanded in jail - he hadn't been convicted of a crime within the past 30 years - legal walk of freedom. There were a couple of newspaper articles about him, but with no name. Someone, we don't know who, had distributed posters with his photo and stating he was a dangerous paedophile look after you children etc. They were posted in areas, which this person knew he frequented.
The SA justice system has a lot to answer for. There was no way this guy could have stopped. He was incessant. Groups of up to four children at one time. I was only 2 when he started on me.

I know the information I have recently discovered, would have sent him into a spin. He would have been angry that he couldn't control the situation. This sits right about the time the Beaumont children were abducted.
In answer to your questions, the terms I used are from a layman. To my knowledge, he has never been diagnosed with anything.


There were a lot more victims.
 
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CD Xbow said:
Psychopath is a very loaded word and is generally avoided in modern psychiatry.
Click to expand...
What do you consider modern?

This not quite four years old...

www.psychiatrictimes.com

Psychopathy: Insights for General Practice | Psychiatric Times

While incarceration is the definitive “treatment” for some, psychopathy exists on a spectrum like any other mental disorder; more recent research suggests the condition is capable of responding to treatment.
www.psychiatrictimes.com www.psychiatrictimes.com
 
Lyn said:
Thanks for responding.
As I have said many times, my POI flew completely under the radar, until that day. He virtually lived in the same house, he never owned a home, never married. The more we reflect, the more we see how he was protected.

Part of the problem with this was caused by the archaic statute of limitation laws in SA. A person could only be charge with child sex offences within three years of the crime. As history goes, most people don't talk about being molested, until they are in they are a teenager/young adult. His victims, didn't even talk about it between themselves. By that time, it was too late. As I have always called it, his legal walk of freedom.
When we were called in to have a chat with major crime Detectives in 95/96,(a whole other chapter) I believe they also interviewed LW. He could have admitted to everything and still not been charged. Legal walk of freedom.
When he was charged, he couldn't even be remanded in jail - he hadn't been convicted of a crime within the past 30 years - legal walk of freedom. There were a couple of newspaper articles about him, but with no name. Someone, we don't know who, had distributed posters with his photo and stating he was a dangerous paedophile look after you children etc. They were posted in areas, which this person knew he frequented.
The SA justice system has a lot to answer for. There was no way this guy could have stopped. He was incessant. Groups of up to four children at one time. I was only 2 when he started on me.

I know the information I have recently discovered, would have sent him into a spin. He would have been angry that he couldn't control the situation. This sits right about the time the Beaumont children were abducted.
In answer to your questions, the terms I used are from a layman. To my knowledge, he has never been diagnosed with anything.


There were a lot more victims.
Click to expand...
It is the lack of information, mainly from public records, that has me wondering why someone went to such an extent to hide that information. It is the kind of thing that someone does in order to be able to commit crimes (abuse), particularly online, without fear of being revealed for who they truly are. I do hope he doesn't have access to the internet whilst incarcerated.

Geez only 3 years? wow. I thought WA was bad with a 10 year limit.

I found in my case that back then, 70s and 80s , children simply weren't believed when they tried to speak up. If you ran away and they found you they took you right to the abusers and believed them over you. It took almost 30 years for us to get justice, of course by then we were adults...

I am glad you got to make him pay.
 
CD Xbow said:
You don't get diagnosed as a psychopath, it's not really got any real meaning in psychiatry, it's general use is to describe people with severe antisocial tendencies or less commonly someone who has a psychosis. It's used interchangeably with the phrase sociopaths, which in psychiatric terms means someone with an antisocial personality (ASD) and related disorders. Again it's not really a kosher psychiatric diagnosis but it does match up to ASD. There are a number of closely related personality disorders whose features crossover (borderline PD, Narcissistic PD), the psyches used to lump these together as 'Cluster B', but this may have changed in recent years. Often they are a mix of features.

Personality disorders are long standing and largely unchanging aspects of a someone's personality as opposed to episodic mental illness like having a depressive illness, a psychotic episode or a panic attack. People with ASD will often have other psychiatric comorbidities such as substance abuse, anxiety & depression, conduct disorders. There are really no effective treatments for APD, much of it ends up being done in the context of the criminal justice system. Other than jails, board rooms are the other place you find a higher than normal number of sociopaths, these are the high functioning ones. There has been a lot of work in recent years looking a the neurobiology of the condition and it may be in the future effective treatments arrive.

Psychosis is when someone has lost all touch with reality, typically suffering from hallucinations and delusions. They are classified as either organic (eg drugs, medical illness) or non organic (eg psychotic episode in someone with schizophrenia). These are generally episodic and have much better response to treatment.
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Thanks, I don't know anything about diagnosis. I would just like to know if a person who is always in control, loses part of his control, would he redirect his focus. In his mind, could he think that he will either, get revenge, or gain control, even though his actions are directed at a different person/s, being the BC?
 
Lyn said:
Thanks, I don't know anything about diagnosis. I would just like to know if a person who is always in control, loses part of his control, would he redirect his focus. In his mind, could he think that he will either, get revenge, or gain control, even though his actions are directed at a different person/s, being the BC?
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Still haven't finished my analysis but a few things that may help. Sociopaths are more erratic and impulsive than psychopaths. Whilst both are aggressive sociopaths tend to be more reactive with their angry outbursts. Underpinning it all is pedophile drive. It's thought that majority of pedophile behaviour stems from nature DNA rather than nurture. Environment can though affect the control mechanisms they use or don't to control their pedophile drive or exacerbate it. Psychopaths also operate much better under stress/ pressure situations....act more clearly. Both are devoid of empathy being under same umbrella of diagnoses.


Looking at Both AO and BC cases (which I tend to address as one because of identakit similarities and behavioural profile similarities) some observations may be made. AO was an impulsive and unplanned abduction without grooming. He took two kids and struggled with them for a good 90 min only having travelled 3 Klm. This is in my view highly impulsive, high risk and erratic unplanned attack indicative of sociopathy. Does that mean that BC ( involving grooming ) isn't? I don't believe you can make that conclusion because it is grooming in a public place without regard to risk. Not as impulsive certainly but still high risk of detection and therefore erratic. I think sociopathy still personal view for both. So what marked the difference? Imo itinerant employment near BC to give opportunity to groom. eg the carnival ride employee and easier access to children

The higher incidence of sociopathy or psychopathy makes greater chance of pedophile being child killer too. Consistent ....both never heard from again. I suspect his anger at the end of 90 min was extreme. Once he got to car he probably immediately killed Joanne because of his festering anger

The pedophile drive IS their basis of sexual attraction so that denial or preventing an opportunity or attack likely will indeed cause a redirected focus imo.

A sociopath can be high functioning or low functioning. At the low functioning they struggle to hold jobs, have relationships......But if we are talking itinerant unskilled then I suggest holding such a job totally possible. Both traits and functionality can be on a spectrum such is the variety. I suspect the difference between the two cases is an opportunity to groom with BC that didn't exist with AO case. BC could be accessed and isolated and grooming possible
 
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Angry Red Bull said:
Still haven't finished my analysis but a few things that may help. Sociopaths are more erratic and impulsive than psychopaths. Whilst both are aggressive sociopaths tend to be more reactive with their angry outbursts. Underpinning it all is pedophile drive. It's thought that majority of pedophile behaviour stems from nature DNA rather than nurture. Environment can though affect the control mechanisms they use or don't to control their pedophile drive or exacerbate it. Psychopaths also operate much better under stress/ pressure situations....act more clearly. Both are devoid of empathy being under same umbrella of diagnoses.


Looking at Both AO and BC cases (which I tend to address as one because of identakit similarities and behavioural profile similarities) some observations may be made. AO was an impulsive and unplanned abduction without grooming. He took two kids and struggled with them for a good 90 min only having travelled 3 Klm. This is in my view highly impulsive, high risk and erratic unplanned attack indicative of sociopathy. Does that mean that BC ( involving grooming ) isn't? I don't believe you can make that conclusion because it is grooming in a public place without regard to risk. Not as impulsive certainly but still high risk of detection and therefore erratic. I think sociopathy still personal view for both. So what marked the difference? Imo itinerant employment near BC to give opportunity to groom. eg the carnival ride employee and easier access to children

The higher incidence of sociopathy or psychopathy makes greater chance of pedophile being child killer too. Consistent ....both never heard from again. I suspect his anger at the end of 90 min was extreme. Once he got to car he probably immediately killed Joanne because of his festering anger

The pedophile drive IS their basis of sexual attraction so that denial or preventing an opportunity or attack likely will indeed cause a redirected focus imo.

A sociopath can be high functioning or low functioning. At the low functioning they struggle to hold jobs, have relationships......But if we are talking itinerant unskilled then I suggest holding such a job totally possible. Both traits and functionality can be on a spectrum such is the variety. I suspect the difference between the two cases is an opportunity to groom with BC that didn't exist with AO case. BC could be accessed and isolated and grooming possible
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Thanks for your reply.
So coming back to the million dollar question. Could the discovery a person he r*ped being pregnant, cause him to react? He couldn't control the impending birth, which would have gone against his traits. This rape has been covered up for over 50 years.
He had already displayed force, or threat, when he committed the rape - on an adult.
Am I making sense?
 
Lyn said:
Thanks for your reply.
So coming back to the million dollar question. Could the discovery a person he r*ped being pregnant, cause him to react? He couldn't control the impending birth, which would have gone against his traits. This rape has been covered up for over 50 years.
He had already displayed force, or threat, when he committed the rape - on an adult.
Am I making sense?
Click to expand...

Sociopaths have weakened capacity for empathy or remorse. When confronted then they'd probably respond angrily.
 
BonzaRam said:
What do you consider modern?

This not quite four years old...

www.psychiatrictimes.com

Psychopathy: Insights for General Practice | Psychiatric Times

While incarceration is the definitive “treatment” for some, psychopathy exists on a spectrum like any other mental disorder; more recent research suggests the condition is capable of responding to treatment.
www.psychiatrictimes.com www.psychiatrictimes.com
Click to expand...
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th edition (DSM-5) does not list psychopathy as an official clinical diagnosis.1 June 2022 - see here. That's despite hundreds of infographics on the internet telling you the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath.

It's legacy term, as I said earlier psychiatrists don't formally diagnose someone as a psychopath. It is usually used the same as they would use sociopath, in which case they are referring to one of the antisocial personality traits such as APD. In the past it got used often to describe psychotic behaviours. Because of this confusing dual use it's no longer used formally, and does not exist in the DSM. I'm not sure there is any point in continuing this conversation, I will leave you to believe what you will.
 
CD Xbow said:
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th edition (DSM-5) does not list psychopathy as an official clinical diagnosis.1 June 2022 - see here. That's despite hundreds of infographics on the internet telling you the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath.

It's legacy term, as I said earlier psychiatrists don't formally diagnose someone as a psychopath. It is usually used the same as they would use sociopath, in which case they are referring to one of the antisocial personality traits such as APD. In the past it got used often to describe psychotic behaviours. Because of this confusing dual use it's no longer used formally, and does not exist in the DSM. I'm not sure there is any point in continuing this conversation, I will leave you to believe what you will.
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And that is the difference between a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist.
 

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YaNaNooNaNooNaNooNaNa said:
Phipps got investigated a million times over the Beaumont case and nothing was ever revealed or proven about him. He had a fetish or two for sure, but that doesn't make him a child abductor or killer or even a pedo.

If he involved in any way, I'd say it was as part of a gang.

Mardi Gras is on in Sydney this weekend and there would be tons of people running around who are more fetish-istic than Phippsy. He wasn't even an exhibitionist, unlike all the posers at Mardi Gras with their antics portrayed as colourful innocent fun.
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Heads up. There is another episode on tv sometime soon
 
BonzaRam said:
It is the lack of information, mainly from public records, that has me wondering why someone went to such an extent to hide that information. It is the kind of thing that someone does in order to be able to commit crimes (abuse), particularly online, without fear of being revealed for who they truly are. I do hope he doesn't have access to the internet whilst incarcerated.

Geez only 3 years? wow. I thought WA was bad with a 10 year limit.

I found in my case that back then, 70s and 80s , children simply weren't believed when they tried to speak up. If you ran away and they found you they took you right to the abusers and believed them over you. It took almost 30 years for us to get justice, of course by then we were adults...

I am glad you got to make him pay.
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I wonder if his parents actually kept him under their roof, so they could keep an eye on him, or was it to protect him. His mother certainly knew. Although I was told his dad reported him to police. I actually think that was in relation to the AO. I will have to clarify.
Yes, 3 years. Luckily that has changed now.
After we had our chat with MC detectives in 95/96, they recommended that we write to the Attorney's General, to ask for a test case. I did this. I just got fobbed off. It was like every step we took, we got a slap in the face and LW was able to pursue other children.

Yes, we finally got him jailed, but he was in his late 70s, past his prime.
I have thought about if prisoner's are allowed access to all web sites. I hope not!!
 

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BonzaRam said:
It is the lack of information, mainly from public records, that has me wondering why someone went to such an extent to hide that information. It is the kind of thing that someone does in order to be able to commit crimes (abuse), particularly online, without fear of being revealed for who they truly are. I do hope he doesn't have access to the internet whilst incarcerated.

Geez only 3 years? wow. I thought WA was bad with a 10 year limit.

I found in my case that back then, 70s and 80s , children simply weren't believed when they tried to speak up. If you ran away and they found you they took you right to the abusers and believed them over you. It took almost 30 years for us to get justice, of course by then we were adults...

I am glad you got to make him pay.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by, the lack of information, mainly from public records ...... to hide that information?
 
Lyn said:
What do you mean by, the lack of information, mainly from public records ...... to hide that information?
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You can request to have many records of yourself removed from online sites but it is not easy task to do and can be quite costly. Someone with time on their hands could get it done. The type of records I am referring too are
Births Deaths and Marriages
Genealogy Records
Occupation Registers
Court Records
Criminal Records
etc
They can be State or Federal records...
 

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Unsolved The Beaumont Children

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