Unsolved The Beaumont Children

[docks]

Did Max McIntyre have any priors? Any priors at all does anybody know?

FYI the associate is currently in prison on a substantial number of child abuse charges And was more than an associate of Munro’s.

 

[BlueE]

Can't help but notice no mention of anyone seeing the Vietnam veteran there, even though he claims to be a prominent player (wasn't observing from a hundred metres away, actually spoke with the man and kids at the scene of their disappearance, apparently). And that's the "Official resume of the Beaumont Case, courtesy of the South Australia Police".

There are archived links and I don't think information on his statement to cops had been made public yet.

However he said he sat down and spoke to the elderly couple, from which woman 3 made a statement in the notes. Her seeing him as 19 year old in her original statement confirms.

The position of the park bench that the elderly couple was sitting on matches his statement as well and suggests Wenzils was in the different position which a couple of posters including Norwood and Power have suggested. I have no doubt he saw the children and Tony Monro being picked up in this distinctive sports car, and this information.

The initial police report or "Official Resume" that almost never reported in the papers or merged with the subsequent reports of the younger blonde man could be an exact description of Max McIntyre and what he was reported to have left the house wearing that morning.

 

[BlueE]

Who is the He in bold? It cant be Max McIntyre as he is named as ''backing'' the allegations.

So the allegations have been dismissed ie The statement was not believed or could not be proved

.So he is repeating the claims already dismissed by SAPOL?

Again the already dismissed allegations

There you have it. Cleared by SAPOL

Not that Max was there, not that Max was involved but ''his children claimed'' Munro - oops Mr X - turned up and then toold Max- when did they tell him? On the day or 10-20 years later?

What associate?

Joints getting crowded

If you havent noticed it said CLEARED

Max claimed that he was protected or was given life long immunity from prosecution, this ultimately ended up to be true.

He did not claim to have killed the Beaumont children although he claimed Tony Monro was involved and he said the claims of his children in the matter were substantially true.

Don't forget one of the Commissioners in charge of the SA Police in 1966 was subsequently found to be guilty of historic child sexual abuse himself. Not saying he was involved here but there are many reasons for SA police to protect pedophiles at the time and there are still relatives of people involved.

See Docks comments about the associate who is currently serving time in prison.

Andrew's claims have been printed in a news paper source which is in linked in this Beaumont children thread.

 

[GreyCrow]

Max claimed that he was protected or was given life long immunity from prosecution, this ultimately ended up to be true.

From what source?

He did not claim to have killed the Beaumont children although he claimed Tony Monro was involved and he said the claims of his children in the matter were substantially true.

Why would he need immunity if he didnt do it?

Don't forget one of the Commissioners in charge of the SA Police in 1966 was subsequently found to be guilty of historic child sexual abuse himself. Not saying he was involved here but there are many reasons for SA police to protect pedophiles at the time and there are still relatives of people involved.

Do you have the name of this commissioner. I dont think I have heard of it

Andrew's claims have been printed in a news paper source which is in linked in this Beaumont children thread.

Claims - which the police subsequently rejected

Making a claim doesnt make it true whether printed or not

 

[docks]

McIntyre would need immunity if he assisted in disposing of the bodies. Andrew claimed many years ago that Munro abused him and nobody believed him then but years later Munro confessed. It’s not easy to prove but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Try googling Graham Bennett Fraser to get an idea of things that go on.

 

[GreyCrow]

Try googling Graham Bennett Fraser to get an idea of things that go on.

Nothing went on? In 1986 complaints were made which saw Fraser demoted but never charged due to the Statute of Limitations that applied.

In 2007 charges were filed after a change in the law.

He was jailed in 2009

Not the 1960s , not a commissioner - a Chief Inspector. Nothing was hidden

No Cookies | The Advertiser

No Cookies

www.adelaidenow.com.au

 

[sprockets]

There are archived links and I don't think information on his statement to cops had been made public yet.

However he said he sat down and spoke to the elderly couple, from which woman 3 made a statement in the notes. Her seeing him as 19 year old in her original statement confirms.

The position of the park bench that the elderly couple was sitting on matches his statement as well and suggests Wenzils was in the different position which a couple of posters including Norwood and Power have suggested. I have no doubt he saw the children and Tony Monro being picked up in this distinctive sports car, and this information.

The initial police report or "Official Resume" that almost never reported in the papers or merged with the subsequent reports of the younger blonde man could be an exact description of Max McIntyre and what he was reported to have left the house wearing that morning.

Woman 3 made a statement that Vietnam vet spoke with the elderly couple? Interesting considering there was no mention of him for 50 years. And the elderly couple didn't remember him?

Got a source for woman 3's statement?

Younger blonde man description fits Max McIntyre?

 

[GreyCrow]

Younger blonde man description fits Max McIntyre?

It does fit Munro

Problem is the most accepted version is the man with the children was in his mid 30s and if you have seen the picture of Munro on the beach with the spearfishing equipment there is no way he could be mistaken for mid 30s

Max McIntyre though would have been approximately 34-35 in 1966

 

[docks]

Nothing went on? In 1986 complaints were made which saw Fraser demoted but never charged due to the Statute of Limitations that applied.

In 2007 charges were filed after a change in the law.

He was jailed in 2009

Not the 1960s , not a commissioner - a Chief Inspector. Nothing was hidden

No Cookies | The Advertiser

No Cookies

www.adelaidenow.com.au

Just highlighting that a policeman can be a paedophile. His offences in the 80’s wouldn’t have been his 1st offences as you start a lot younger and he was 25 in the 60’s. Peter Liddy was a magistrate and he was abusing children. Just because no evidence exists doesn’t mean claims are false. Paedophiles Hunt in packs, have friends in high places and cover up for other paedophiles.

 

[GreyCrow]

Just highlighting that a policeman can be a paedophile. His offences in the 80’s wouldn’t have been his 1st offences as you start a lot younger and he was 25 in the 60’s. Peter Liddy was a magistrate and he was abusing children. Just because no evidence exists doesn’t mean claims are false. Paedophiles Hunt in packs, have friends in high places and cover up for other paedophiles.

I have never said policemen couldnt be

It seemed as if you were referring to BlueEs post. I responded in that manner

 

[sprockets]

Just highlighting that a policeman can be a paedophile. His offences in the 80’s wouldn’t have been his 1st offences as you start a lot younger and he was 25 in the 60’s. Peter Liddy was a magistrate and he was abusing children. Just because no evidence exists doesn’t mean claims are false. Paedophiles Hunt in packs, have friends in high places and cover up for other paedophiles.

It doesn't make them true either, hence the questions.

And don't forget this is a discussion forum, not a statement forum. It's not the ITNJ where there's no cross examination (or credibility). If you're going to make public statements you're going to be judged and even questioned by the public, like it or not. If you refuse to answer those questions it can look like you're trying to hide something. Accusing the questioners of "trolling" is disingenuous.

 

[GreyCrow]

20 year old, now a Vietnam veteran reported many years later he was eating lunch on bench near Wenzels bakery when a lad about his age come up off the beach with three children and used the shower. He spoke to a girl he believes was Jane who was looking at his food. Said the lad had given them a pound to buy lunch from the bakery, (not sure if they had eaten it already or they had the food to eat.) She was quite chatty and st on the bench he was on. He asked the lad if he's had his National Service call up. "No I haven't" and that was the end of conversation. All four of them them got into a distinctive car which he gave a detailed description of.

Apologies for the late quote - and this is not specifically about this post but I will address some of the claims

I dont think the Vietnam Vet saw what he thought he saw or at least he read it in the newspers - note dates ie he didnt go ''straight to Vietnam''

1 ''lad of the same age as him ''

It has always been reported from day 1 that the man involved was in his mid 30s to 40s . A woman of middle age and an elderly couple all agreed on his age and appearance. I put a lot of weight on the middle aged womans account as she would have been describing someone her age or similar

2. There was a newspaper report of a car with 3 children in it and a lad ''the same age as me '' but it wasnt him or them and it was dismissed

All from newspaper reports of the day


Feb 3 report Canberra Times 1966 ''Elderly couple confirm FOUR other reports of the man and children''



Description of man - last paragraph - this was confirmed by 7 witnesses. Yet VV sees different? This is also the news report - Canberra Times - that VV could have seen and misread as Glenelg.

 

[BlueE]

Apologies for the late quote - and this is not specifically about this post but I will address some of the claims

I dont think the Vietnam Vet saw what he thought he saw or at least he read it in the newspers - note dates ie he didnt go ''straight to Vietnam''

1 ''lad of the same age as him ''

It has always been reported from day 1 that the man involved was in his mid 30s to 40s . A woman of middle age and an elderly couple all agreed on his age and appearance. I put a lot of weight on the middle aged womans account as she would have been describing someone her age or similar

2. There was a newspaper report of a car with 3 children in it and a lad ''the same age as me '' but it wasnt him or them and it was dismissed

All from newspaper reports of the day


Feb 3 report Canberra Times 1966 ''Elderly couple confirm FOUR other reports of the man and children''

View attachment 835245

Description of man - last paragraph - this was confirmed by 7 witnesses. Yet VV sees different? This is also the news report - Canberra Times - that VV could have seen and misread as Glenelg.

View attachment 835247

Vietnam Vet went to training closed off form any newspapers within days, then to Vietnam. News papers called Jane "Joan" in big letters on the front page with an old photo that didn't look like her or Arnna. The initial confirmed reports were that the children were seen with a middle aged man who did fit the description of the man he saw them with.

Also later reports put the date on the same day as the Australia Day Holiday on 28th Jan at the Sheffield Races held at Possible that someone was walking around with children that looked like the Beaumont's but all these sightings and dates were eventually corrected again and police confirmed the last sights around noon on the 26th Jan where woman 2 and 3 (elderly woman with her husband) saw them.

The description of the man was from the original police report differs from your Canberra Times report in this regard. "... light brown hair swept back and parted on the left side, clean shaven, suntanned complexion with a thin face. Australian accent. Wearing blue bathers with a single white strip down the side ..."

No mention of fairish to light brown in need of cutting, blonde hair, surfy type or young which all appeared in headlines or test of news reports in days and months that followed.

The original police report was from the description of 4 peopl and a possible a child who was a friend of Jane's (but I don't have her description of the man and think she identified the children around 11 - 11.15 the same time woman 1 (74 year old) sitting infront of Holdfast Sailing described the children playing in the sprinkler on Colley Reserve. She said a man wearing blue swimming trunks was lying down watching the children then started frolicking with the children under the sprinkler.

This is where reports saying they went missing from Colley Reserve are misleading. They may have been there when Woman 1 saw them, but both woman 2 and woman 3 (from elderly couple who spoke to the man) saw them off Colley Reserve may have meant Glenelg foreshore and Holdfast be Mosley reserve?

I'm not sure, but both woman 2 and woman 3 saw the children later, around 12 - 12.15, after they returned from Wenzel Cake shop.

AT 11.45 the children entered Wenzel's cake shop which as described by Norwood and KillerPower could have been on Colley Tce and not far from Glenelg foreshore.

Woman 2 and 3 (and her elderly husband) were sitting on seats nearby and saw the children return from Wenzels around 12 noon and woman 3 spent some time talking to the man who was asking if she'd seen someone taking money from the children's possessions. She watched the man dress the children which she thought was odd. She said the man then went to Colley Reserve change rooms by him self. Woman 2 said the man walked away with the children and passed out of sight behind Glenelg Hotel.

The time was around 12.15 pm.

Not sure which man walked away with the children according to woman 2 and Vietnam Vet's account then takes up when at 12.15 pm he sees the children with the young blonde man (after putting his statement into SA Police year,s later identified from a young picture as TM). He spoke to the young man who was around the same as him (he was 19 TM 20?) asking if he was drafted to Vietnam and received a curt answer. He talked to Jane for a few minutes and then a distinctive shiny blue/green sports car with luggage racks came among Colley Reserve and picked up the three children with the young man and drove off down Colley Tce towards Anzac Hwy.

The Vietnam Vet then walked over to the seat and talked with woman 3, the elderly woman sitting with her husband on the bench. Her statement confirms this

I don't know if the cops considered two men might have been involved in grooming the children to remove them from the beach, but there were 2 different identities given and reported but these seem to have merged into one as you can see starting to happen with the Canberra news report.

One matches the description and clothing that Max McIntyre was wearing as he left his house that morning and one matches Tony Monro.

 

[GreyCrow]

Vietnam Vet went to training closed off form any newspapers within days, then to Vietnam. News papers called Jane "Joan" in big letters on the front page with an old photo that didn't look like her or Arnna. The initial confirmed reports were that the children were seen with a middle aged man who did fit the description of the man he saw them with.

Also later reports put the date on the same day as the Australia Day Holiday on 28th Jan at the Sheffield Races held at Possible that someone was walking around with children that looked like the Beaumont's but all these sightings and dates were eventually corrected again and police confirmed the last sights around noon on the 26th Jan where woman 2 and 3 (elderly woman with her husband) saw them.

The description of the man was from the original police report differs from your Canberra Times report in this regard. "... light brown hair swept back and parted on the left side, clean shaven, suntanned complexion with a thin face. Australian accent. Wearing blue bathers with a single white strip down the side ..."

No mention of fairish to light brown in need of cutting, blonde hair, surfy type or young which all appeared in headlines or test of news reports in days and months that followed.

The original police report was from the description of 4 peopl and a possible a child who was a friend of Jane's (but I don't have her description of the man and think she identified the children around 11 - 11.15 the same time woman 1 (74 year old) sitting infront of Holdfast Sailing described the children playing in the sprinkler on Colley Reserve. She said a man wearing blue swimming trunks was lying down watching the children then started frolicking with the children under the sprinkler.

This is where reports saying they went missing from Colley Reserve are misleading. They may have been there when Woman 1 saw them, but both woman 2 and woman 3 (from elderly couple who spoke to the man) saw them off Colley Reserve may have meant Glenelg foreshore and Holdfast be Mosley reserve?

I'm not sure, but both woman 2 and woman 3 saw the children later, around 12 - 12.15, after they returned from Wenzel Cake shop.

AT 11.45 the children entered Wenzel's cake shop which as described by Norwood and KillerPower could have been on Colley Tce and not far from Glenelg foreshore.

Woman 2 and 3 (and her elderly husband) were sitting on seats nearby and saw the children return from Wenzels around 12 noon and woman 3 spent some time talking to the man who was asking if she'd seen someone taking money from the children's possessions. She watched the man dress the children which she thought was odd. She said the man then went to Colley Reserve change rooms by him self. Woman 2 said the man walked away with the children and passed out of sight behind Glenelg Hotel.

The time was around 12.15 pm.

Not sure which man walked away with the children according to woman 2 and Vietnam Vet's account then takes up when at 12.15 pm he sees the children with the young blonde man (after putting his statement into SA Police year,s later identified from a young picture as TM). He spoke to the young man who was around the same as him (he was 19 TM 20?) asking if he was drafted to Vietnam and received a curt answer. He talked to Jane for a few minutes and then a distinctive shiny blue/green sports car with luggage racks came among Colley Reserve and picked up the three children with the young man and drove off down Colley Tce towards Anzac Hwy.

The Vietnam Vet then walked over to the seat and talked with woman 3, the elderly woman sitting with her husband on the bench. Her statement confirms this

I don't know if the cops considered two men might have been involved in grooming the children to remove them from the beach, but there were 2 different identities given and reported but these seem to have merged into one as you can see starting to happen with the Canberra news report.

One matches the description and clothing that Max McIntyre was wearing as he left his house that morning and one matches Tony Monro.

Do you have the name of this Vietnam Vet?

I dont think David Smith is his correct name

 

[BlueE]

Do you have the name of this Vietnam Vet?

I dont think David Smith is his correct name

Yes it is his correct name as far as I'm aware and he also recently passed away after an illness. It's almost as if SAPOL are just waiting for anyone involved in the case and can give evidence to pass

 

[GreyCrow]

Yes it is his correct name as far as I'm aware and he also recently passed away after an illness. It's almost as if SAPOL are just waiting for anyone involved in the case and can give evidence to pass

David Smith from SA?

 

[BlueE]

My question to Andrew. How big was this club you mentioned? the "salvage and expedition club". do you remember the names of the members?
Also, do you remember Tonys home Address in 1966? general location, street or suburb?

I lived in a street over from jetty road. I often walked the streets and laneways. always trying to figure out, where they parked their car.
Also,was forever trying to figure out how they got away un-noticed.

From my research Tony lived as close as you can get to Anzac Highway end of the Tod street. Pretty sure there was no driveway (they mention lack of car parking for many houses).

He turned up early on the 26th Jan at the McIntyre's in a yellow station wagon I think, to pick Andrew up to go diving off the Jetty. But Max did not let him go that day and he left with some friends in this car.

 

[johnymac1]

From my research Tony lived as close as you can get to Anzac Highway end of the Tod street. Pretty sure there was no driveway (they mention lack of car parking for many houses).

He turned up early on the 26th Jan at the McIntyre's in a yellow station wagon I think, to pick Andrew up to go diving off the Jetty. But Max did not let him go that day and he left with some friends in this car.

Fairly close to the Satin Man then!

 

[sprockets]

I see the Macklin street home, if we have the correct address, has been subdivided and rebuilt on and it looks fairly recent. I bet the cops were all over it when the land was being dug up and new footings being put in. If I wanted evidence that someone had been burying bodies there I'd also be all over it. Anyone recall reading anything in the news about someone finding something there like bodies, dungeons, bomb shelters, tunnels or bones?

 

[GreyCrow]

I see the Macklin street home, if we have the correct address, has been subdivided and rebuilt on and it looks fairly recent. I bet the cops were all over it when the land was being dug up and new footings being put in. If I wanted evidence that someone had been burying bodies there I'd also be all over it. Anyone recall reading anything in the news about someone finding something there like bodies, dungeons, bomb shelters, tunnels or bones?

Nothing reported in the news

 

[sprockets]

Nothing reported in the news

I'm shocked to be sitting here.

 

[Kurve]

Interview with Kathryn Finnigan who joined the SA Police in 1964 when there were only 45 women on the force.

Kathryn, at this time, women were restricted in the Police Force to a particular role. Can you elaborate for me exactly where women police fitted into the Police Force and what some of their functions were?

Well, there were forty-five women in the Force when I graduated and joined the Women Police. The Women Police branch was separate from the mainstream of policing  they even had their own seniority list. We weren’t integrated with the others  that did not happen till many years later  and women in those early days, in 1964 when I joined, only dealt with women and children, neglected children, uncontrollable girls, and destitute women. And we would arrest young children who were in an awful environment, and if they were neglected we would put them before the Juvenile Court and then we would take them to the various homes around so welfare agencies could work with the families and they may get them back. And with the uncontrollable girls we would drag them screaming and kicking from the courts when an order had been made, and we would put them in Vaughan House

Can you remember any of the sort of notorious children cases at that time?

Oh, the Beaumont children, of course, working  doing some jobs on that. What was your involvement with that? Oh, I just think every now and again somebody would say ‘There’s an enquiry come up: let’s take a woman police officer,’ and they would go out and interview people. And I can always remember having an opinion as to who did it  which was completely wrong, I am sure; nobody knows. I was heavily involved in the Ratcliffe-Gordon case, taking a lot of telephone enquiries, writing them down and subsequent enquiries, interviewing people. It was unsuccessful; we never ever found anybody for that. There were shoplifters in those early days

https://archival.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/oh/OH505_9.pdf

 

[GreyCrow]

Just some background on Vaughan House mentioned in the previous post

The link may cause distress

Vaughan House - Summary | Find & Connect

www.findandconnect.gov.au

Vaughan House was opened at Enfield in 1947 as a Government reformatory for girls who were state wards. It was formerly the Salvation Army run Barton Vale Girls' Home. Initially most girls were Protestant as Catholic girls were sent to the Convent of the Good Shepherd, The Pines. In 1960, 40-50 girls were in residence. A new building opened in 1965 with room for 72 girls. In 1979 Vaughan House was renamed the South Australian Youth Remand and Assessment Centre.



Vaughan House was one of the institutions that came under scrutiny for allegations of abuse during the Children in State Care Inquiry 2004-2008. The majority of the reported incidents at Vaughan House were from the 1960s and 1970s.

 

[sprockets]

Interview with Kathryn Finnigan who joined the SA Police in 1964 when there were only 45 women on the force.

Kathryn, at this time, women were restricted in the Police Force to a particular role. Can you elaborate for me exactly where women police fitted into the Police Force and what some of their functions were?

Well, there were forty-five women in the Force when I graduated and joined the Women Police. The Women Police branch was separate from the mainstream of policing  they even had their own seniority list. We weren’t integrated with the others  that did not happen till many years later  and women in those early days, in 1964 when I joined, only dealt with women and children, neglected children, uncontrollable girls, and destitute women. And we would arrest young children who were in an awful environment, and if they were neglected we would put them before the Juvenile Court and then we would take them to the various homes around so welfare agencies could work with the families and they may get them back. And with the uncontrollable girls we would drag them screaming and kicking from the courts when an order had been made, and we would put them in Vaughan House

Can you remember any of the sort of notorious children cases at that time?

Oh, the Beaumont children, of course, working  doing some jobs on that. What was your involvement with that? Oh, I just think every now and again somebody would say ‘There’s an enquiry come up: let’s take a woman police officer,’ and they would go out and interview people. And I can always remember having an opinion as to who did it  which was completely wrong, I am sure; nobody knows. I was heavily involved in the Ratcliffe-Gordon case, taking a lot of telephone enquiries, writing them down and subsequent enquiries, interviewing people. It was unsuccessful; we never ever found anybody for that. There were shoplifters in those early days

https://archival.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/oh/OH505_9.pdf

So let's say 50 women in 1966 and two of those picked up 'new witness'. You'd expect word would get around between the 50 of what reportedly went on where 'new witness' lived, if it happened, especially given the seriousness of the crime. This lady, who you'd have to say is credible given her position, says she had an opinion but was wrong. The mind boggles as to who she believed had committed the crimes and that in the end she had no idea who it was.

 

[Odog]

So let's say 50 women in 1966 and two of those picked up 'new witness'. You'd expect word would get around between the 50 of what reportedly went on where 'new witness' lived, if it happened, especially given the seriousness of the crime. This lady, who you'd have to say is credible given her position, says she had an opinion but was wrong. The mind boggles as to who she believed had committed the crimes and that in the end she had no idea who it was.

Who’s your money on for the killer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk