The benchwarmers

Wigarus

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#76
Sure, if you read my post just above yours I actually said:
I think for the short term at least we'd be better off. But you don't get the RTB discipline and consistency by taking the short way through these things.
So yea, I get it. But I don't have to make these decisions, I'm a fan and you know what? I'd much rather see Simpson playing footy this week than Matt DeBoer playing another brilliant coaches game where he checks off all the KPI's and does the team thing and gives great effort and has **** all possessions and kicks no goals.
And yes I understand the futility/hypocrisy of my position because I was one who would have sold my soul to get the consistency of this team over the crazy flakiness of older incarnations of Freo.

I wasn't even referring to anything you have posted in this thread. I just remember you being the most vocal about Walters 2 years ago. That is why I brought you up.
 

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Fred Ziffel

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#77
You name the team rules first and I'll tell you which ones he broke.

That is a cop out. You can't name the supposed broken team rules because he did not break any.


Ross Lyon has broken more records as a coach of this football club than I care to mention. I'm pretty sure he doesn't do things just for the principal of the matter. There is an end game and you are obviously too stupid to see it. I think that if he thinks it is worth staking his reputation as a winning coach on then I will support him and assume that he knows more about the inner workings of the club than Fred Zimple.
You could not resist it, could ya Wig ?.... How puerile.
Have it your way. It is all yours.
 

E Shed

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#78
I wasn't even referring to anything you have posted in this thread. I just remember you being the most vocal about Walters 2 years ago. That is why I brought you up.
I know, I get it. I'm just saying that I haven't really changed that position, as a fan I want to see the best players playing and see exciting football.
I don't resile from the position of wanting to see Walters playing as much as possible as soon as possible even though I get why they had to go through the process they went through with him.
I'm just saying I can see Fred's point. I know how he feels and I even agree emotionally. I can see why we aren't doing those things and I even agree that its for the greater good but I can see why someone would think the opposite.
I was also pretty vocal in defending keeping Walters on our list against those who wanted to cut our losses.
 

Wigarus

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#79
You could not resist it, could ya Wig ?.... How puerile.
Have it your way. It is all yours.

You can't prove he didn't break team rules any more than I can prove he did. I don't believe in smoke without fire though and there are plenty of indications that he did break team rules.
 

clogged

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#80
I agree and disagree. Our forward line is dysfunctional but I hardly think it is De Boers fault.

I think its quite simple:
-Mayne is out of form / injured (whatever, we aren't getting a result from him)
-Lack of a second (and now first) crumbing small forward.
-Lack of a second tall target that can reliably impact on the score board.

I think our best possible forward line is two talls, (Pav and Bradley - maybe Gumby), Two smalls (Ballas and Walters) and Mayne as a third tall. All fit and firing I think there is more than enough scoring power there.

None of the replacements for these guys have anywhere near their x - factor. Crozier hasn't fired a shot at AFL level and I don't expect him tothis year at least, Neale isn't a forward, Duffy would probably be the closest but who knows? Clarke, Griffin, Hannath, Taberner, Apeness are all either ruckmen first and forward last or too young and inexperienced to have any real impact.
Where did I say it was De Boer's fault? The structure you outline agrees with me. Ross Lyon has never run that structure though.
 

Jimbos1

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#81
Name the team rules that Colin Sylvia was disobeying leading up to the Hawks game.
He gathered 12 possessions in the first qtr for Peel before getting injured in his last outing for them. He had overcome the injury and was fit to go against Hawks.
Barely any MCG experience ? ; Like I said he has played more games there personally than the entire Freo side .
Why go from Sublime to ridiculous by suggesting we could get the entire Dees team for Fyfe. What is that supposed to mean ?
What exactly would we be doing at the expense of team discipline by selecting our best option of winning ?
I'll give you a bunch of pissed off supporters, just keep on losing but in your view that is fine because we can hold our head up high for having disciplines.

Still losing games, we have had experience at that.
Principle only goes so far like Kerry packer said to the ACB " You are really men of principles so name your price and be clever whores ".
There simply are/were better options to sylvia. We didnt get him to be a "go to player" hes simply there for more depth. He will play when hes earntbhis spot, I trust Ross and the other coaching staff in who they choose on the day.

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Wigarus

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#82
Where did I say it was De Boer's fault? The structure you outline agrees with me. Ross Lyon has never run that structure though.

Of Course Ross has used that structure. The only exception I could see is Clarke in instead of Bradley which I know everybody debates about but I don't think he adds enough as a forward as we lose in the ruck with Bradley.

And you were criticizing the defensive forward role which has pretty much exclusively been De Boers since Ross got here.
 
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#83
What bothers me is the blatant arrogance of Sylvia supporters, if the guy is a gun then you'd think it logical to assume something has gone amiss in spite of his talent.

Yet people say that basically he should get a gig because of who he is. Which flys in the face of good culture.

Plus you'd have to be Gary Ablett level to get a walk in gig not a bloke who sometimes was good for a shit team. In light of mentioning that, the best players are renowned for training hard and Sylvia has been said to be otherwise.

(Dane Swan is an
anomaly and shouldn't be taken into account here).

What's that arrogance? That you think a player should play regardless of how many basic tenants that'd be broken.


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blue shark

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Thread starter #84
What bothers me is the blatant arrogance of Sylvia supporters, if the guy is a gun then you'd think it logical to assume something has gone amiss in spite of his talent.

Yet people say that basically he should get a gig because of who he is. Which flys in the face of good culture.

Plus you'd have to be Gary Ablett level to get a walk in gig not a bloke who sometimes was good for a shit team. In light of mentioning that, the best players are renowned for training hard and Sylvia has been said to be otherwise.

(Dane Swan is an
anomaly and shouldn't be taken into account here).

What's that arrogance? That you think a player should play regardless of how many basic tenants that'd be broken.


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This is the problem, he was drafted because of what he brings to the table. and to improve our midfield/forward line. I understand he has to
earn the right, but to not even use him as the sub, and then play players injured, out of form seems futile.
Walters, Mayne, Ibbo, play when they should be rested, Suban out of form, and is an average sub choice. Sylvia would still get the message
as sub, not best 22 yet.
 

Wigarus

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#85
No crossed wires at all.

Fremantle needed, exactly, a big bodied tough inside mid in the Hawks game; we had no Fyfe and no Barlow and played two unfit players who should not have been out there, in Mayne and Walters.

We could have and should have played Colin Sylvia in that game and especially on the MCG where he has played more games than the entire Freo side combined. and he wasn't a mug in those day either.
Fremantle stuffed it up but.... but, we were principled. So we were right, but flogged, yes flogged but it is a great concession because we showed principles and stubborn values.
Sometimes you just have to give yourself the best chance of winning. We did not.
Still losing games, we have had experience at that.
Principle only goes so far like Kerry packer said to the ACB " You are really men of principles so name your price and be clever whores ".

Desperate is not a factor. Forget about winning matches, that is a side game.
We have disciplines and rules that we must follow.

We shall prevail.

riiiight...
 

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couldhavebeen

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#87
Name the team rules that Colin Sylvia was disobeying leading up to the Hawks game.
He gathered 12 possessions in the first qtr for Peel before getting injured in his last outing for them. He had overcome the injury and was fit to go against Hawks.
Barely any MCG experience ? ; Like I said he has played more games there personally than the entire Freo side .
Why go from Sublime to ridiculous by suggesting we could get the entire Dees team for Fyfe. What is that supposed to mean ?
What exactly would we be doing at the expense of team discipline by selecting our best option of winning ?
I'll give you a bunch of pissed off supporters, just keep on losing but in your view that is fine because we can hold our head up high for having disciplines.

Still losing games, we have had experience at that.
Principle only goes so far like Kerry packer said to the ACB " You are really men of principles so name your price and be clever whores ".
Fred the rule he broke was the first rule in RTB's book GET FIT .
The 2nd rule he broke was Bonds first rule and that was give me more than 1 good game of footy in the seconds and I will move heaven and earth to get you a game in the 1st's
The 3rd rule he broke was if you don't get a game in the firsts don't play with your bottom lip on the ground and then hit some poor sap behind play and get rubbed out for 2 weeks when we needed you to stand up and be a man .

I don't care what anyone says about selection and who should be playing .

If that player won't or can't abide by team rules then he doesn't play its that simple .

Silvagni as not put a foot wrong since he came back from last years injury . He has put his hand up and asked but he hasn't been selected . Has he spat the dummy or not given 100 % for the team NO has he shirked his responsibility's to the team or slackened his training NO .
Can you say the same for Sylvia F**cking NO NO NO so how can you say he should be playing in the first . What message are you sending to the kids ,Be a Dick Head and we will give you a game I DON"T THINK SOOOooooo.
 

blue shark

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Thread starter #88
Everyone has an opinion on Sylvia, and his issues? I think both the player and the club are at fault. I don't mind seeing guys show some emotion,
aggression, disappointment at not been selected. Should of got a game previously even as the sub, same with Simpson being dropped, proves that
these guys are Human after all. Man up and deal with the punishment, it was a mistake move on.
Its funny how people forgive Balla, when we are desperate for Forwards, and he will come straight in, but want Sylvia, Simpson made an example of.
We have more issues with players picked in our best 22, not performing, injured, out of form, and still getting picked first.
 

Fred Ziffel

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#89
Fred the rule he broke was the first rule in RTB's book GET FIT .
The 2nd rule he broke was Bonds first rule and that was give me more than 1 good game of footy in the seconds and I will move heaven and earth to get you a game in the 1st's
The 3rd rule he broke was if you don't get a game in the firsts don't play with your bottom lip on the ground and then hit some poor sap behind play and get rubbed out for 2 weeks when we needed you to stand up and be a man .

I don't care what anyone says about selection and who should be playing .

If that player won't or can't abide by team rules then he doesn't play its that simple .

Silvagni as not put a foot wrong since he came back from last years injury . He has put his hand up and asked but he hasn't been selected . Has he spat the dummy or not given 100 % for the team NO has he shirked his responsibility's to the team or slackened his training NO .
Can you say the same for Sylvia F**cking NO NO NO so how can you say he should be playing in the first . What message are you sending to the kids ,Be a Dick Head and we will give you a game I DON"T THINK SOOOooooo.
Oh fair crack o the whip Coulda.
You are making up rules to fit your argument.
Your third rule doesn't even come into it and it should never have.
 

manpurple

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#90
Everyone has an opinion on Sylvia, and his issues? I think both the player and the club are at fault. I don't mind seeing guys show some emotion,
aggression, disappointment at not been selected. Should of got a game previously even as the sub, same with Simpson being dropped, proves that
these guys are Human after all. Man up and deal with the punishment, it was a mistake move on.
Its funny how people forgive Balla, when we are desperate for Forwards, and he will come straight in, but want Sylvia, Simpson made an example of.
We have more issues with players picked in our best 22, not performing, injured, out of form, and still getting picked first.
Not sure that any of these are the same situation.
Simpson was clearly a different case to wacking some tool behind the play.
Sylvia hadn't made the team yet as his performance was not up to par. Maybe you can argue he was ready but RTB is clear you play yourself in and you play yourself out. Look at what happened to Mzungu last year. Got dropped but someone else was injured so stayed in and performed and suddenly there he is there for good. The key is someone has to play themselves out for you to get a chance and they have to be your type of player.

Now ATM nobody is doing Balla's role so he is back in but mids who float forward are dime-a-dozen in our lineup. RTB was fairly clear that Crozier played well and he deserves another chance so none of the above are going to get his spot. They need to come in for another. Say a Suban role where you rotate back across half-back and then role forward. Neither Sylvia or Simpson suit this role. deBoer was their chance and they weren't available to prove they deserved a shot last weekend. Mora had, and was (IMHO) going to take deBoer's spot but went down ill and so deBoer remains as the only one fit with any runs on the board from last weekend. He playes. It's tough but you have to wait for your chance and then take it with both hands.
 

couldhavebeen

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#91
Just had an idea that I think needs to be told and with Walters not being available we should groom Simpson to be his replacement .
The idea has merit IMHO on its side because.
1 . He is good in traffic and awareness of other players around him .
2 . He takes a good mark .
3 . He showed us that he is a very good tackler and is quick across the ground .
4 . He has the ability to avoid being tackled and his vision in a crowded contest allows him with lightning handpasses to dish off the ball to players in a better position .
5 . His kicking is elite off both feet when passing the ball .
His only shot at goal from distance was not good but I think with the right coaching that will improve .
These are just my observations but I think there are good reasons for him to be given a chance up forward .
I welcome any comments positive or negative on this observation .
I think this should be trialed with Peel while he serves out his penance .
Others have seen more of him playing than I have so I would welcome their comments
 
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#92
Sylvia should have played against Hawthorn imo. Simpson should not have been dropped last week. Hannath should never have played ahead of Clarke. Taberner should not have been subbed off against Sydney. Lachie Neale should have started on the ground in the GF. The list of selection errors we've made lately is as long as Sandilands' arm.

The players in the twos must be rightly thinking that they will only get a game in case of injury or suspension. Because the senior players in the team seem undroppable regardless of form.
Not sure it's appropriate to call them errors. It's all opinion as these decisions failed to deliver the win, the subsequent decisions may have provided the same result, but we do not have the benefit of knowing.
 
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#93
I'd like to see Simpson in the team and I can see why he cracked it after his efforts as the sub. Perfect replacement but so fragile emotionally that you can see him dropping his head on the back of a bad word.

If Ross can develop that response to include renewed effort, without that fragility, Simpson could go on to become a superstar, rather than an emotional genius like the Wizz was.
 
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#94
Only 13 touches, but I liked Crozier's game today. Hilarious running goal stuff up aside. This week and last week are signs of improvement I think - he's not utterly invisible when not with ball in hand as he was previously. Tackling and pressuring is getting much better. These guys are not going to come in and rack up 20+ touches and 2 goals, nor are they best 22. However, promising signs for development I think.
 

manpurple

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#95
For a number 71 pick in the daft Sutty is proving to be a gem. Just played his 30th game and is more settled in the team than others.

I'm hoping to see some results of the Peel game over the weekend but I would anticipate that will give us an idea as to who is developing. IMHO we have a better crop of hopefuls than at any other time I can remember and I genuinely look forward to some of them playing for us. Rather than as it was in past years where it was all hope and no substance.
 

Fred Ziffel

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#96
For a number 71 pick in the daft Sutty is proving to be a gem. Just played his 30th game and is more settled in the team than others.

I'm hoping to see some results of the Peel game over the weekend but I would anticipate that will give us an idea as to who is developing. IMHO we have a better crop of hopefuls than at any other time I can remember and I genuinely look forward to some of them playing for us. Rather than as it was in past years where it was all hope and no substance.
Or where we were forced to fast track them.
 
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