The best midfield

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Didn't = Couldn't does it?

Easy to make a baseless claim that you’ll win one. I guess come back to me if your list ever does. Otherwise you need to accept the fact that this current Richmond group has achieved more than the current Pies side.

 

[sr36]

Our midfield has won a flag and formed part of the most dominant team in the comp last season so I think we function OK as a unit. It’s also the most decorated, so there’s that.

There’s one month separating Cotchin and Sloane. Cotchin has him with regards to key career statistics. Averages more kicks, disposals, goals, behinds and frees for. Sloane averages more handballs, marks and tackles. Cotchin has played 43 more games so has him covered for durability.

Trent Cotchin achievements:
1 x Brownlow medal
1 x Premiership (Captain)
1 x AFLCA
1 x All Australian
3 x Best & Fairests
117 x Brownlow votes (ave of 1.88 votes per game)

Rory Sloane achievements:
1 x All Australian
2 x Best & Fairests
94 x Brownlow votes (ave 1.88 votes per game)

Overall, Cotchin has achieved more and is statistically superior. To the naked eye, I would have Cotchin marginally ahead. I find him to be quicker and cleaner in traffic. His best is also better (Sloane has never been regarded as the best player for a full season). The knock on Cotch was his ability to deal with a tag, but Sloane has that same issue, however he probably dealt with it better than Cotchin. I’d say Cotchin is also a better leader. I’m comfortable with my assessment that Cotchin is ahead. Admittedly, not by much, but I still think it’s clear cut.

Both are bloody good, but personally I'm a Sloane fan and would prefer him - very marginally. Cotchin had a vastly superior first half of his career than Sloane, thus the superior career stats, but I don't think that's particularly relevant now. I just think that Rory has been more influential in more games over the last few years and that's despite copping more attention from opposition negaters, because Dusty is always the first guy that opposition teams worry about at Richmond. I'd back Sloane to continue to offer a little bit more than Cotchin..

 

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Both are bloody good, but personally I'm a Sloane fan and would prefer him - very marginally. Cotchin had a vastly superior first half of his career than Sloane, thus the superior career stats, but I don't think that's particularly relevant now. I just think that Rory has been more influential in more games over the last few years and that's despite copping more attention from opposition negaters, because Dusty is always the first guy that opposition teams worry about at Richmond. I'd back Sloane to continue to offer a little bit more than Cotchin..

Cotchin has been heavily tagged from 2012 up until 2017. Dusty only started copping serious attention in 2018. Usually if a player goes to Dusty, he just drags them forward and destroys them one on one. Cotchin is certainly the more taggable player, so opposition taggers have opted to go to him significantly more in the past. Furthermore, Dusty probably only overtook Cotchin in 2016, so Cotchin was the go to player to shut down.

What’s relevant is perhaps the most recent season where Cotchin had him covered statistically again. Averaged more kicks, disposals, behinds, inside 50s, goal assists, clearances, rebound 50s, bounces, centre clearances, score involvements, metres gained and intercepts, all from less average time on ground. Sloane averaged more handballs, goals, tackles, frees for, contested possessions, 1%ers and stoppage clearances. Cotchin also polled higher in the Brownlow albeit playing more games.

Statistics, individual achievements and their most recent respective seasons have Cotchin ahead. If Sloane is your “personal preference” then fair enough. I just don’t think you can mount as big a case for him than you can with Cotchin. But like I said, not much between them. Both fantastic players.

 

[schmuttt]

Melbourne's midfield is as hard as nails, astonishingly so considering they're so young. But if I was a Melbourne supporter advocating for my club's midfield, I wouldn't be drilling down on individual games where a lot was at stake.

This old chestnut. Beat the Eagles over there with everything on the line, bashed up GWS then convincingly won two finals before we ran out of steam and got belted by a better side.

Think we did reasonably well in the 'big' games in 2018 all things considered...

 

[sr36]

This old chestnut. Beat the Eagles over there with everything on the line, bashed up GWS then convincingly won two finals before we ran out of steam and got belted by a better side.

Think we did reasonably well in the 'big' games in 2018 all things considered...

I agree with that. And you haven't done what I was being critical of. You've looked at a series of games to make your case. I was just referring to the habit of drilling down on one individual game in an attempt to argue a point. Quite clearly, if you do that with the Dees Prelim shocker, you could make the mistake of concluding that Dees midfield sucks, which it very clearly doesn't when you look at their season as a whole last year.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Saying GWS is ''harder'' than the no.1 contested ball side of 2018 is a nonsense.

Especially when GWS were toweled up by said Dees' midfield in round 22 when a home final was on the line for both sides.

Ours are led by more mature players, who've been through the pressure of absurd expectations and come out the other side. Your's are about to find out what that's like.

2019 is a new year and we'll have to wait and see what happens. Could go either way IMO, but it's not a silly statement.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Both are bloody good, but personally I'm a Sloane fan and would prefer him - very marginally. Cotchin had a vastly superior first half of his career than Sloane, thus the superior career stats, but I don't think that's particularly relevant now. I just think that Rory has been more influential in more games over the last few years and that's despite copping more attention from opposition negaters, because Dusty is always the first guy that opposition teams worry about at Richmond. I'd back Sloane to continue to offer a little bit more than Cotchin..

Cotchin was quite influential as premiership captain.

put the team on his back

TrentCotchin/DylanShiel.Gif

 

[Marcel Proust]

I did not say current state though. I was predicting what it likely to be in 2020's. So like I said, laugh all you like. The Dee supporters the ones sooking after retorted with throw away line of I'd take our future midfield everyday over your choking team in the prelim final. Do not come crying to me about potshots if you cannot handle a laugh both ways. I am fine with you laughing at my prediction. Just do not sook I laughing the other way.

Melbourne > Carlton imo

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Didn't he get the concussion from another incident, with Astbury maybe?

No

 

[Do the Dew]

No

Was hardly malicious intent by Cotch, beelined the ball and protected himself in the process. Shiel got a dodgy bounce that led him to lean in with his hands and head, rather than the body. Players collided, Shiel got hurt, it happens


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[Dazb86]

I think Collingwoods midfield is the standout. Melbourne have a good group also.

With the Dogs I see a lot of guys that can rack up the ball at will but also a lot of guys that lack penetration with their kicking.

 

[Juzzk1d]

Collingwood certainly have the best midfield. Most amount of depth and damaging on the inside and out. We have too many grunts and lack that quality speed and outside run.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Collingwood certainly have the best midfield. Most amount of depth and damaging on the inside and out. We have too many grunts and lack that quality speed and outside run.

idk the Pies are solid but Id prefer your mob or even WCE

 

[Marcel Proust]

Just like Toby standing his ground against an overly agressive Dalhaus.

They were exactly the same !!!

Cotchin went harder and Shiel wasn’t injured from that incident. It was a footy clash and history will remember cotchin’s part in it purely because he went on to win a flag. Like Zaine Cordy v Ward in the 2016 prelim there’s always room for brave physical efforts from all players. They define matches.

Indeed that was what I was trying to convey initially

No

iirc it was stated it was the Astbury hit which put him into next week, not the Cotchin 1v1

 

[jakson68]

Cotchin has been heavily tagged from 2012 up until 2017. Dusty only started copping serious attention in 2018. Usually if a player goes to Dusty, he just drags them forward and destroys them one on one. Cotchin is certainly the more taggable player, so opposition taggers have opted to go to him significantly more in the past. Furthermore, Dusty probably only overtook Cotchin in 2016, so Cotchin was the go to player to shut down.

What’s relevant is perhaps the most recent season where Cotchin had him covered statistically again. Averaged more kicks, disposals, behinds, inside 50s, goal assists, clearances, rebound 50s, bounces, centre clearances, score involvements, metres gained and intercepts, all from less average time on ground. Sloane averaged more handballs, goals, tackles, frees for, contested possessions, 1%ers and stoppage clearances. Cotchin also polled higher in the Brownlow albeit playing more games.

Statistics, individual achievements and their most recent respective seasons have Cotchin ahead. If Sloane is your “personal preference” then fair enough. I just don’t think you can mount as big a case for him than you can with Cotchin. But like I said, not much between them. Both fantastic players.

So Cotchin averaged more behinds??
WOW, we really are scraping the bottom of the stats bowl now.

 

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So Cotchin averaged more behinds??
WOW, we really are scraping the bottom of the stats bowl now.

More shots at goal, means he gets himself into good positions which allow him to score, means he’s a good reader of the play. Handy points can also win games. Learn your footy before commenting please. Thanks.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

More shots at goal, means he gets himself into good positions which allow him to score, means he’s a good reader of the play. Handy points can also win games. Learn your footy before commenting please. Thanks.

More shots at goal, means he gets himself into good positions which allow him to score, means he’s a good reader of the play. Handy points can also win games. Learn your footy before commenting please. Thanks.

Actually more misses indicates he's either not getting the ball in good positions or isn t a good shot for goal, like Castagna

 

[00Stinger]

More shots at goal, means he gets himself into good positions which allow him to score, means he’s a good reader of the play. Handy points can also win games. Learn your footy before commenting please. Thanks.

More points could also mean that he isn't a finisher and can't be trusted to kick goals when the game is on the line.

 

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More points could also mean that he isn't a finisher and can't be trusted to kick goals when the game is on the line.

Stats obviously need context, but I was highlighting my reasoning behind putting behinds as a positive. Anyway, even if you consider points a negative, Cotchin is still statistically superior and my argument is still valid. People are just nitpicking because they’ve accepted my overall case is too strong to argue against. That’s usually what ends up happening on this board.

 

[Jiggyman]

You'd have to do some actual statistical analysis to prove your points. Both of you. Behinds are both an indicator of scoring prowess AND inefficiency/inaccuracy, but you'd have to calculate the relative important of each of Cotch's behinds in the context of each game, compared to other players that you've mentioned. That ain't happening, so let's just say he can play up the ground and nab a goal or two now and then.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Actually more misses indicates he's either not getting the ball in good positions or isn t a good shot for goal, like Castagna

Charlie Cameron 60 goals in his first 50 games,
Jade Gresham 58 in first 50 games,
Eddie Betts 51 in 50 games,
George, 54 in his first 50 games.

At least George is getting shots at goals. Like Cotchin

 

[Lolbert]

Cotchin could kick 100 points in a season. HE could be the Plugger of kicking points and I'd still pick Sloane over him any day of the week.

 

[Juddernaut08]

What even is the point of contention here?

Cotchin is an elite player, but not in the top 10 (and nowhere close to Dusty). The dirty bump and his large number of behinds don't change this either way.

 

[jakson68]

More shots at goal, means he gets himself into good positions which allow him to score, means he’s a good reader of the play. Handy points can also win games. Learn your footy before commenting please. Thanks.

Also could mean he is just a s**t kick

 

[Trav 20]

Also could mean he is just a s**t kick

When you watch football do you retain what you see ?