NFL The Best QB of All Time: Poll

Who is the Best NFL QB of all time?

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GG.exe said:
LicoriceAllsorts

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Already replied in that thread, that poster is rightly being lambasted for posting something so dumb

Dude, Elway is one of the top 4 QB's all time. You nephews have no idea who you're dissing. The Broncos teams he took to the Super Bowls in the 80's were so ******* sorry. Dan Reeves was an idiot who'd run the ball all game for 2 yards a clip and then tell Elway to go get the win in the 4th, down 21 most of the time, and Elway would be looking up, 4th and a mile to go as the pocket collapsed and fire a strike to a receiver a mile and an inch away, just as he was lit up by the defensive end. Every. Single. Time.

I can't tell you how many times I thought Derrick Thomas was about to just light him up from his blind side and some ******* how some ******* way he'd literally ******* duck under him and then stand up and fire a strike. He was a ******* super hero. If he played in today's culture, the media would hail him as the LeBron James of football.

You know all the pop culture football movies of the late eighties/entire 90's/early 00's? How their QB always does something ridiculous like Sunshine ducking an unblocked man in Remember the Titans, or Cap being helicoptered in Any Given Sunday or Mox completing a pass 75 yards downfield because a defensive back thought he couldn't throw that far in Varsity Blues? And you'd just roll your eyes and say "Ya, right."? Every single one of those were based on something Elway did. He was probably the most gifted athlete to ever play the position.

Elway was severely held back by an egotistical arsehole AKA Dan Reeves. People underestimate how ******* good John Elway was. He was a Monster an a half. However when you have a coach that wants to pound the rock for 3 Quarters, forcing his team into a hole and then allowing John Elway to do * all in the 4th Quarter you get Elway's shitty numbers.

There's a reason why Elway's best season was 93. Because Dan Reeves was gone and he could actually operate in an offense that played to his strengths. You put Elway in an Air Coryell style of offense and the NFL would've had to make rule changes because it would've been so unfair.

Dan Reeves is the reason Elways stats are so ****ed up.

I always say this: Put Elway on the 80's and 90's Niners teams, and if nothing changes, they win more Championships. Put Montana on those 80's Broncos and he's in a body bag at age 26. Bill Walsh even considered trading for Elway, this is FACT.

Ask Redskins fans. Ask Browns fans. Ask Seahawks fans. Ask Patriots fans.

I'm dead serious there was a game the Broncos were down by 17 in Washington DC with three minutes left. They won by 4.

John Elway made me believe in the "clutch" gene.
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So, why is Elway a legend? Why have people worked backwards from their conclusion to justify him as an elite, legendary, all-time great QB?

Oh, it’s his two rings.
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This is so dumb. Elway was already in the Hall of Fame before he won his 2 rings. His last 2 seasons aren't even impressive when compared to his 3 earlier SB appearances. They were just the icing on the cake for him.

Elway is the greatest example for why rings and stats don't tell half the story in ranking QB's. It's the eye test.

Tho I will say, if he played with Shanahan, Davis, etc. for 10 years, he'd have Marino's stats, and Montana's rings
 
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Some of the other good replies in that thread

Evaluating QB based on their stats is an improvement on the days of "QB WINZ", but it is still in many ways a flawed approach. The main weakness of the approach is that there are no such things as QB stats.

Every stat thought of a QB stat is, of course, actually a stat for the passing offense as a whole. That includes the quarterback, obviously, but it also includes the receivers, the line, the playcaller, how much respect the running back gets, whether the defense is letting the offense play with a lead, and so on.

Elway is one of the best candidates for a QB who was actually great in spite of leading in a middling passing attack.

  • His teammates were not that impressive. The best receiver Elway had during the 1980s was Vance Johnson. Heard of him? Probably not. There's a reason for that. Elway didn't get to play with a Pro Bowl WR until 1995, although he at least had HoF TE Shannon Sharpe from 1992 on.
  • When he did get a strong offense around him at the end of his career, he played at a very high level for a guy in his late 30s. Very much in line with his reputation.
  • Observers in the late 80s and early 90s thought very highly of Elway, in spite of "his" mediocre stats. By the time he finally got a chance to play with a legitimately good receiver, Sharpe in '92, he already had four Pro Bowls and an NFL MVP on his shelf.
Which is more likely: That Elway was an outright bad quarterback that fooled everyone into thinking he was great until finally breaking out and actually becoming great at the age of 33, or that Elway was a great quarterback all along and the mediocre Bronco passing attacks pre-Sharpe reflect the weakness of the rest of the offense, not of Elway?
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He was basically LeBron dragging the shitty Cavs to the playoffs to get beat, during his first years in Cleveland. His team was dreadful running a 1960’s offense.
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I watched him play a lot. He was amazing and could do the physically impossible. He was accurate on the run, throwing across the whole field.

Stats don’t mean anything. It is something for the wanna be intellectuals to recite as concrete evidence how great a super hero was.

There were different styles back then. The offense was run differently. Referees called the games differently and the rules have changed dramatically.

Any one jack ass enough to call Elway average is either a moron or a troll. He should be considered one of the best of all time and stands in no QB’s shadow.

Who ever wrote this does not understand the game past to present, is not smart enough to connect the dots or is a true, blue blooded s**t stirrer.
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HORSESHIT. I'm an oldtimer by /r/nfl standards and I watched John Elway play. He was a legend long before those rings. Elway was in video games, ads, that Quarterback Club thing, you name it. Additionally, he dragged a bunch of decent-to-average Broncos teams to the playoffs year after year. I hate John Elway and I'm glad that Joe Montana schooled that Bronco-faced goober in Super Bowl XXIV, but JOHN ELWAY IS A LEGEND AND WAS A LEGEND LONG BEFORE HE EVER WON A SUPER BOWL.
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Yeah seriously I watched him play, hell I watched Dan Fouts play and this entire post makes me hate millennials, using numbers out of context is the dumbest way ever to evaluate any player. Elway put teams on his back and had come backs that would make Brady blush. This from a former Charger fan, I hated that SOB.
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This post and some of the responses just serve as another reminder that a lot of r/nfl is young people who look no further than stat sheets.

From 1983-1989 (a span in which Elway won an MVP, mind you) the only other offensive Bronco players to make the Pro Bowl were RB Sammy Winder and G Keith Bishop (they didn't have any all pros except Elway himself). I'd venture the idea that OP has no idea who either of those people are, neither does he (or almost anyone else) know who Vance Johnson was; he was Elway's best receiver before Sharpe. The reason nobody knows these people is that even they weren't that good, and they were the best Elway had to work with.

Furthermore, Dan Reeves' offensive gameplan was little more than, "hey, let's just have John Elway get us out of this 3rd and 8 situation I just created". No QB can be given that personnel and that coaching and put up stats.

And the thing is, we know these were the issues. Because at the ripe age of 33, when Elway was finally given good coaching and a good cast, he started producing statistically, and received multiple all pro nods in a golden age of QB play.

I can guarantee you OP never watched Elway play. Because everyone who did (and everyone who played with or against him) has nothing but good things to say about his play.
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this is why i ******* hate stats. he dragged shitty broncos teams that had no business being in the playoffs to the playoffs. everyone brings up peyton mannings lack of success in the playoffs too but same for him. look up bo jacksons stats, they're garbage on paper for how hyped he is. if you watched them play then you know. * stats for this exact reason lmao.

stats are great, but they're nothing without context and they're nothing when you use em they way you do. you're just cherry picking and wording it to fit your narrative.
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John Elway was an undisputed Hall of Famer before he played in either of the Super Bowls that they actually won.

This analysis could not be more out of touch with the reality of the time.

It feels like it was written from a perspective that doesn't really remember what pre-salary cap NFL football was like. Elway dragged terrible teams kicking and screaming into the postseason.
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My list, yet agian....

1. Dan Marino
2. Sammy Baugh
3. Johnny Unitas
4. Ken Stabler
5. Tom Brady

-----------------

This dude gets it

The Greatest Quarterbacks of All Time — The 1970's

by Paddi Cooper, May 14, 2017

1) Ken Stabler — Oakland Raiders (1970–79), Houston Oilers (1980–81), New Orleans Saints (1982–84)

ROPE Index Rating 63.2%
Hall of Fame Class of 2016

The top rated quarterback of the 1970's didn’t even become the full time starter until five years into his NFL career. Ken ‘The Snake’ Stabler was drafted by the Oakland Raiders in round two of the 1968 draft. He didn’t make his first appearance until two years later and then shared playing time with Daryle Lamonica and George Blanda until taking the starting job midway through the 1973 season.

Stabler was a scrambler early in his career, but knee injuries meant he became more of a pocket passer and he became known for his accuracy, completing just under 60% of his passes throughout the decade, the highest of any quarterback to play in at least 40 games. Never a strong armed thrower, Stabler nevertheless was incredibly accurate at all levels, either throwing deep to multiple Pro Bowler Cliff Branch or in the intermediate range to Hall of Famers Dave Caspar and Fred Biletnikoff. His yards per attempt (7.7) and touchdown percentage (6.1%) were both the best of any player in the decade.

Stabler broke the record for the fastest quarterback to 100 wins, achieving that feat in just 150 games. In the 40 years since, only three players have reached 100 wins faster, and they have 13 Super Bowls between them (Terry Bradshaw 147 games, Joe Montana 139 games and Tom Brady 131 games).
Stabler was incredibly productive through the middle years of the 1970s, culminating in the 1976 season where he finished with the highest ROPE Index season of any player in the decade with a rating of 65.9% (74.2% wins adjusted) in 15 games, and a Super Bowl victory.

In addition to the Super Bowl win, Stabler was named to four Pro Bowls and two 1st team All-Pro teams (1974, 1976) and the 1970's all-decade team (2nd team). Stabler also led the league in touchdown passes in 1974 and 1976 and was named the league MVP in 1974. That he didn’t made the Hall of Fame until after his death in 2016 was such a shame for not only one of the biggest characters of his era, but ultimately the top rated quarterback.
 
LicoriceAllsorts said:
This is so dumb. Elway was already in the Hall of Fame before he won his 2 rings. His last 2 seasons aren't even impressive when compared to his 3 earlier SB appearances. They were just the icing on the cake for him.

Elway is the greatest example for why rings and stats don't tell half the story in ranking QB's. It's the eye test.

Tho I will say, if he played with Shanahan, Davis, etc. for 10 years, he'd have Marino's stats, and Montana's rings
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And how many of these games did you watch with your own eyes??
 
fuey said:
And how many of these games did you watch with your own eyes??
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Taken from reddit...

Using pro-football reference dot com, go to a player's career gamelogs, sort by highest passer rating, and then calculating totals, etc

So, picking the best 16 games (by passer rating) as tho it were one regular season.

Below, are their best possible "season" based on 16 best passer rating games...

Peyton: 317/400 (79.2%) 4406 yards 58 TD 0 INT 150.24 rating 14.29 AY/A
Brady: 354/455 (77.8%) 5060 65 TD 0 INT 149.2 rating 14.05 AY/A
Rodgers: 333/442 (75.3%) 4568 yards 60 TD 0 INT 144.8 rating 13.08 AY/A
Brees: 373/472 (79%) 5187 yards 67 TD 1 INT 148.8 rating 14.14 AY/A


In the multiple reddit threads, people have also been doing many QBs WORST 16 games. Funny stuff too.

Jimmy Clausen's BEST 16 games was still horrific like 7 TDs and 10 INTs.

Rodgers, from above, his worst was something horrendous, like 7 TDs and 36 INTs.
 
GG.exe said:
Taken from reddit...

Using pro-football reference dot com, go to a player's career gamelogs, sort by highest passer rating, and then calculating totals, etc

So, picking the best 16 games (by passer rating) as tho it were one regular season.

Below, are their best possible "season" based on 16 best passer rating games...

Peyton: 317/400 (79.2%) 4406 yards 58 TD 0 INT 150.24 rating 14.29 AY/A
Brady: 354/455 (77.8%) 5060 65 TD 0 INT 149.2 rating 14.05 AY/A
Rodgers: 333/442 (75.3%) 4568 yards 60 TD 0 INT 144.8 rating 13.08 AY/A
Brees: 373/472 (79%) 5187 yards 67 TD 1 INT 148.8 rating 14.14 AY/A


In the multiple reddit threads, people have also been doing many QBs WORST 16 games. Funny stuff too.

Jimmy Clausen's BEST 16 games was still horrific like 7 TDs and 10 INTs.

Rodgers, from above, his worst was something horrendous, like 7 TDs and 36 INTs.
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#1

AFC (The best)
1. Chargers 12-4
2. Colts 12-4
3. Patriots 11-5
4. Steelers 9-7
5. Chiefs 10-6
6. Jaguars 9-7
----------------------------
7. Broncos 9-7
8. Bills 8-8


NFC (Suxx)
1. Eagles 13-3
2. Rams 12-4
3. Saints 11-5
4. Lions 9-7
5. Cowboys 11-5
6. 49ers 10-6
----------------------------
7. Falcons 9-7
8. Redskins 9-7


Jaguars @ Patriots
Chiefs @ Steelers
49ers @ Saints
Cowboys @ Lions

Jaguars @ Chargers
Steelers @ Colts
Cowboys @ Eagles
Saints @ Rams

Colts @ Chargers
Saints @ Eagles

Eagles vs. Chargers
 
fuey said:
May I know where? Is there other games, cos I'd really love to watch old Packer games!
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These days mainly youtube... I used to find them through other means.

The NFL account on youtube has posted tons of full games, legendary games, each team has at least 3 games I think. But there's heaps of other people who post games.

The NFL account (really annoying, I can't find the actual playlist with all the games, but here's SB XXXI... GG.exe might have a link to the actual playlist with all the games..?)



Then there's heaps of other accounts like these guys
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrEuCuMjl9EKz05o54PrUvQ/videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCykt-XFOvpS1Q_0knCeQ-Eg/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/Quamler/videos


Just literally search for a game on youtube, you never know, might be up there...
 
A few years ago, me and a bunch of other people were uploading tons of full NFL games from the distant past... 1920s thru to 1990s. The NFL ceased control of the situation, banned multiple youtube channels, deleted all the videos. But I still managed to download onto my hard-drive as many as I could before they all disappeared. There's the old Ten Yard Torrents site that one can still peruse and try to download videos of. They literally have millions of games. You just have to do a search thru Youtube nowadays to find anything that isn't owned by the NFL. The NFL owned videos are mostly just the Super Bowls going back in history, and pretty much every NFL game in the last ten years maximum. You might get lucky finding an old game, pre-00's, but it'd be rare. I can't find a dedicated playlist or youtube NFL channel (yet) that has them all listed. They all just come under different NFL account names.

I have plenty of Packers games from the 50s thru to 90s on my hard-drive. Guess you'd have to come over and watch them with me :p
 
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