The big 4 clubs and the AFL's future

[The_Wookie]

God I am loving watching this conversation.

Big Four: WE'RE BIG! We carry the competition! We fund your loss-making minnowhood! We are the giants!
Everyone Else: Hahahahahaha
Big Four: WE ARE! The AFL needs us!
Everyone Else: This isn't 1985
...
...
Sydney, Hawthorn, Geelong: *wins flags*

Christ theres an oversimplification of everything.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

This thread should be titled the big 4 VICTORIAN clubs . There are a few pretty big clubs outside of that state believe it or not.

 

[Colonial]

This thread should be titled the big 4 VICTORIAN clubs . There are a few pretty big clubs outside of that state believe it or not.

5 out of the 8 to be exact.

 

[Crowbots are dead]

5 out of the 8 to be exact.

Five? I would say Adelaide, west coast, Sydney, and freo. Who else?

 

[Faysals Swans]

Five? I would say Adelaide, west coast, Sydney, and freo. Who else?

That's about right, although in regards to port Adelaide recent spike in crowds an memberships should they be included?

 

[Colonial]

Five? I would say Adelaide, west coast, Sydney, and freo. Who else?

Port would be. They do get massive crowds against interstate opposite (despite your dislike of them)

 

[threesixpio]

Yum, battered eyelids.

I'm positive there are battered eyelids in Chiko Rolls

 

[Roylion]

The only clubs with worse records since 87 are the Bears and Fitzroy - both now defunct. You cant argue the stats.

The Bears are not defunct. Changing a team's branding (as they did at the end of 1996) does not make a club defunct. The Brisbane Lions were formed in 1987 and for the first ten years of their existence were known as the Bears. When referring to Brisbane you need to refer to all thirty years of their history.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Carlton is the richest club in the AFL. There are about 4 billionaires on the board. If there was no salary cap,
Carlton would buy the best players, just like Real Madrid and Barcelona!

Which is exactly what you used to do. And since you got busted for it, you've been completely woeful.

 

[sherb]

Carlton is the richest club in the AFL. There are about 4 billionaires on the board. If there was no salary cap,

That doesn't make the club rich. In fact, according to our last financial reports, we were in debt $6.3 million (non-current) and that figure had risen from the previous year.

If there was no salary cap, Carlton would buy the best players, just like Real Madrid and Barcelona!

But there is a salary cap. Which, incidentally, I for one support.

Our club needs to operate under the realization that it is 2016, and that things are very different to how they used to be.

 

[threesixpio]

Convincing players not to become free agents and leave your club and/or take a salary slightly lower for success is a skill in and of itself. Buying a whole bunch of expensive free agents and/or losing players to free agency makes a club fall to bits. Putting aside the obvious equalisation benefits I think the salary cap makes the building of lists more interesting for the casual observer.

 

[pazza]

Wandering where you pulled that figure from ?

If we are to take that Morgan annual survey into account, you have at least 1 million Collingwood supporters and over 900000 Essendon fans. Wouldn't be that hard to find another 1.6 million across the other 2 clubs, certainly in Richmond's case.

 

[dockshark]

This thread should be titled the big 4 VICTORIAN clubs . There are a few pretty big clubs outside of that state believe it or not.

This. Despite the tears of (well mostly Richmond and Carlton) supporters the facts stack up. The big interstate sides have overtaken 3 of the so called big 4 already in real terms as have Hawthorn.

As per the previous posts. The big 4 is an irrelevance clung onto by those living in the past.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

This. Despite the tears of (well mostly Richmond and Carlton) supporters the facts stack up. The big interstate sides have overtaken 3 of the so called big 4 already in real terms as have Hawthorn.

As per the previous posts. The big 4 is an irrelevance clung onto by those living in the past.

The thing is, when that term was coined the alleged big four were all substantially smaller than even the saints, roos, dees and dogs are as of right now.

Every AFL club except gws and gc is big by australian sporting league standards. NRL and A League clubs would kill to be the size of North Melbourne or St Kilda.

 

[footyfan1978]

If we are to take that Morgan annual survey into account, you have at least 1 million Collingwood supporters and over 900000 Essendon fans. Wouldn't be that hard to find another 1.6 million across the other 2 clubs, certainly in Richmond's case.

Richmond less than half a million according to a 2014 survey. Just slightly ahead of Hawthorn.
AFL Club Supporters 2014

 

[Demonic Ascent]

sorry, poorly phrased.

Anzac day which nobody else had the foresight to try and turn into what it is now.

Oh please

 

[Gavin Excell]

Richmond less than half a million according to a 2014 survey. Just slightly ahead of Hawthorn.
AFL Club Supporters 2014

Ah yes the chart that's shows Swans having greatest support in the AFL

 

[pazza]

Oh please

It is true however - no other club actually came up with anything.

 

[footyfan1978]

Always interesting just to see how many indirect ways you can get a feel for how much following respective clubs from certain regions.
Clearly a lot of football fans make a supercoach entry and biased towards Victoria having most entries this is the split

Supercoach as indicated by club following
Total # Of Team Entries
1 Collingwood 24584
2 Essendon 22909
3 Carlton 18445
4 Richmond 16762
5 Hawthorn 16552
6 Geelong 14458
7 St Kilda 9473
8 North Melbourne 9398
9 Adelaide 8883
10 Western Bulldogs 7749
11 Melbourne 7309
12 West Coast 7295
13 Sydney 7022
14 Brisbane 5266
15 Port Adelaide 4442
16 Fremantle 3682
17 Gold Coast 1698
18 GWS Giants 1103

 

[sherb]

Obsession with the "Big 4" concept must be a Victorian thing.

I've supported the Blues since the late 60s, but have not lived in Victoria - I've never given a crap about it frankly.

 

[footyfan1978]

Ah yes the chart that's shows Swans having greatest support in the AFL

Yep, As mentioned a few years ago. Do not know how meaningful these things are but still interesting to see.
Anyone in Sydney that barely follows footy but answers a survey of what AFL club they support are likely to answer Sydney.

 

[replicant]

Turns out I was slightly wrong - the Hawthorn/St.Kilda figure has been revised upwards, meaning Hawthorn is pipping Carlton for 4th. Crows 6th.

Click on H&A Totals -> Ave to sort.

http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/2016.html

These numbers are hopelessly skewed though. The problem for interstate teams is that they get very, very small numbers of opposition fans. So big crowds for Viv/Vic clashes are to be expected, and the numbers should really should be adjusted if you want to compare with interstate clubs.

Some fans travel, so it's not 50%, but something like 65% might be pretty realistic. I'd expect a swans game at the SCG is 80-90% Swans fans, and only 10-20% opposition fans.

So a home game at the SCG with 37 000 is about the equivalent of a Carlton/Collingwood crowd of around 60 000.

While the total numbers might be ok, the actual numbers of fans from each of those teams might be quite low. Look at the Carlton/Sydney game. 33 000 or so and Sydney have a lot of Melbourne fans and members, so likely 25% Swans fans. That means Carton was only really getting 24 000 or so Carlton fans to a home game.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Yep, As mentioned a few years ago. Do not know how meaningful these things are but still interesting to see.
Anyone in Sydney that barely follows footy but answers a survey of what AFL club they support are likely to answer Sydney.

For sure

Storm would probably come out tops on a similar "survey"

 

[Ron The Bear]

These numbers are hopelessly skewed though. The problem for interstate teams is that they get very, very small numbers of opposition fans. So big crowds for Viv/Vic clashes are to be expected, and the numbers should really should be adjusted if you want to compare with interstate clubs.

Some fans travel, so it's not 50%, but something like 65% might be pretty realistic. I'd expect a swans game at the SCG is 80-90% Swans fans, and only 10-20% opposition fans.

So a home game at the SCG with 37 000 is about the equivalent of a Carlton/Collingwood crowd of around 60 000.

While the total numbers might be ok, the actual numbers of fans from each of those teams might be quite low. Look at the Carlton/Sydney game. 33 000 or so and Sydney have a lot of Melbourne fans and members, so likely 25% Swans fans. That means Carton was only really getting 24 000 or so Carlton fans to a home game.

Agree with much of this (though SCG/ANZ attendances haven't been special for Sydney v GWS). It's simply a national competition trait. A fan watching at home on TV contributes much less than one who attends the game, whatever the reasons for non-attendance.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Richmond less than half a million according to a 2014 survey. Just slightly ahead of Hawthorn.
AFL Club Supporters 2014

* Roy Morgan definition does not apply