The big 4 clubs and the AFL's future

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Good management can hasten a recovery.
This is why when you rebuild you have to get it right and nail picks, particularly Rounds 1 and 2. This was Carlton's problem, their last rebuild didn't generate enough good picks and too many cloggers.

It's why I am loving the type of rebuild we did, not gutting the list. Going that way ensures at least 4-5 down years missing finals and if you don't get it right it is not until you've played a few finals series and realise 5-8 is the ceiling of the group. Richmond are finding that out now imo.
 
If Geelong wasn't one of the teams would you still be posting this thread?


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2 regioinal victorian teams, 2 tasmanian teams and 4 others i think you mean
So much playing the man already. I yearn for when a response to a thread OP (thread now merged) isn't centred around the club they support.
If anything, the fact that North, Melbourne, Geelong, Doggies, St Kilda and Hawthorn are the best teams from Victoria this season demonstrates that everything is going well.

All of those clubs have had severe financial difficulties over the last 20 years. Some have really thrived (Hawks, Geelong), some have become consistent finals performers (Dogs, St Kilda, North) and some are Melbourne (who put Mark Neeld in as head coach, forever curse his name).

But all of them have record membership, all have lists in decent shape, none are facing extreme financial stress (Melbourne, Dogs, Saints, Roos will always be smaller clubs - but you can't have 'big' clubs without small ones).
Whereas this is spot on and from where I stand echoes in a way what Sttew was saying.
 
May 29, 2008
10,489
9,144
Australia
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
SS Lazio
With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.
Yes to Tasmania and fix up the academies.

The fact that the big four are s**t is their fault alone.

Just like I don't want my membership money given to North Melbourne, I don't want the AFL to discriminate and give my club a leg up.
 

sonnywalters

Cancelled
Oct 29, 2014
5,833
8,870
Newcastle NSW
AFL Club
St Kilda
Richmond should just face reality. Ask the AFL to move to Tassie permanently. Become the Tasmanian Tigers. Get a cash injection. Play half/half home games at Launie and Hobart. Make the whole of Tassie a zone/academy. Get 40,000 new Tassie members and keep 40,000 Melbourne members.

Make Matthew Richardson co Club President with Brendan Gale - (both from Tassie as was Royce Hart, Ian Stewart & Disco Roach). It is the only & obvious solution for this club. They have good history/connection with Tassie past and present (Jack Riewoldt).

They have no future in Melbourne. Watch the 'Tiger army' drop off. Crowds already way down.

I am not trolling or joking. I seriously believe this. They have not won a final since 2001 - 15 years ago and who knows when the next one will be?

The reality is carrying on and being a joke indefinitely.
 

wowlace

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 15, 2010
5,936
6,411
Kewarra Beach
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Washington Wizards
With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.

Na she'll be right mate.
 

VineyIsLORD

Norm Smith Medallist
May 6, 2016
5,437
5,362
AFL Club
Melbourne
Yes to Tasmania and fix up the academies.

The fact that the big four are s**t is their fault alone.

Just like I don't want my membership money given to North Melbourne, I don't want the AFL to discriminate and give my club a leg up.

Thats fine but commercial realities dictate that the 'big 4' have a leg up every single season via live fta matches and better scheduling.

Most supporters of the small 4 accept this, we would just kindly ask our financial (but not on field) superiors to stop advocating for the death of our clubs.
 

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kneecapper

Club Legend
Jun 1, 2015
1,472
3,266
AFL Club
Sydney
Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent...
Absolutely pathetic. Stopped reading there.
Collingwood have faced the exact same conditions as Geelong and Hawthorn and they've shared 6 of the last 10 premierships. Stop shifting blame and take some responsibility for the current state of your club (meaning McGuire).
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
I think the AFL would actually prefer this as those clubs can still survive without stellar on field performances. The competition to my mind does better financially if Essendon are rubbish and North are flying than vice versa and we know it's about the alighty ollar
If that was the case they would let smaller supported teams have blockbuster games and let the big clubs have non blockbuster games. Yet we see the opposite.
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
Exactly!
It would only be a problem if the 4 clubs where in the bottom 4 for the next 10 years.
Richmond, carlton and Essendon woes ain't cyclical. It's mismanagement. A cycle would suggest teams are playing finals almost every second year. Yet it is far from the case for these clubs. Throw in Melbourne as well.
 
Sep 15, 2007
50,371
46,606
Where i need to be
AFL Club
Geelong
With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.
You can't blame the big four woes on the expansion teams when dogs, Saints, cats, nth, Hawks are all doing fine.
 
With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating,
The effects of our cheating penalties are long gone.

We are where we are because of atrocious club management for the best part of 15 years.
 

domus

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 31, 2008
12,309
21,683
Mooroolbark
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Mooroolbark footy club
With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.

The game is thriving like never before. The crowds are great and the footy is good to watch. The big four will rise again and all will be well.
 

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