The big 4 clubs and the AFL's future

[TheFVK]

With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond

Thought this was a necrobump from the 70s.. what's your opinion on the Vietnam War?

In all seriousness what world do you live on where these clubs are Big 4. West Coast alone could buy all 4 with pocket change

 

[Big Stinky Monk]

OP needs to be writing to his Prez, not slapping bs on BF

From reading the post, it's an even odds bet that the OP IS the prez!

 

[isamedthegiants]

The game is thriving like never before. The crowds are great and the footy is good to watch. The big four will rise again and all will be well.

Maybe we're the real "sleeping Giants" not Richmond.

 

[The 747]

The game is thriving like never before. The crowds are great and the footy is good to watch. The big four will rise again and all will be well.

Agree, but all is well now.

 

[The 747]

Eddie was threatening to quit yesterday if the football department spending tax was not removed in what seemed like an epic tantrum, blaming the AFL for his own mistakes.

Don't WC cop the same level of tax? IIRC they, Swans and Pies spend the most

 

[Jade]

With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.

Geez man relax. Everyone goes up, everyone comes down at some point...

 

[threesixpio]

Yeah, but what about the big 4 clubs (Hawthorn, Geelong, West Coast, Sydney)?

Finally a post supporters of our 4 teams can like together!

 

[VineyIsLORD]

The big 4 are losing their importance by the year. TV rights is king.

Roos v Dogs got more supporters to their game than Ess v Blues and no one battered an eye lid.

Yum, battered eyelids.

 

[Syd]

Eddie was threatening to quit yesterday if the football department spending tax was not removed in what seemed like an epic tantrum, blaming the AFL for his own mistakes.

"We'll miss Eddie"

 

[hoianbulldog]

Agree with the OP, well the first couple of lines anyway. I didn't read past that.

Get the dogs, kangas out of the 8. Do what needs to be done to prevent the saints and demons from getting there.

Realign the planets AFL and let's get things back to normal.

Omfg, are you serious.

 

[SdKfz 181]

Richmond should just face reality. Ask the AFL to move to Tassie permanently. Become the Tasmanian Tigers. Get a cash injection. Play half/half home games at Launie and Hobart. Make the whole of Tassie a zone/academy. Get 40,000 new Tassie members and keep 40,000 Melbourne members.

Make Matthew Richardson co Club President with Brendan Gale - (both from Tassie as was Royce Hart, Ian Stewart & Disco Roach). It is the only & obvious solution for this club. They have good history/connection with Tassie past and present (Jack Riewoldt).

They have no future in Melbourne. Watch the 'Tiger army' drop off. Crowds already way down.

I am not trolling or joking. I seriously believe this. They have not won a final since 2001 - 15 years ago and who knows when the next one will be?

The reality is carrying on and being a joke indefinitely.

We have no future in Melbourne? well its true that we have not won a final in 15 years, but still have over 70,000 members, how does that work? We wont be going anywhere, even when our crowds drop off like they have been, we outdraw your mob..

 

[Ron The Bear]

Watch the 'Tiger army' drop off. Crowds already way down.

I am not trolling or joking. I seriously believe this.

Then you're ******* demented.

Richmond is second for attendances in 2016. Behind Collingwood, and ahead of Essendon & Carlton in 3rd & 4th.

The Big Four lives!

 

[demondavey]

With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.

Concerns for the future of the code? Are you that arrogant to think that those 4 teams being in the cellar represent dire straits for the future of the AFL? So if Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne and St Kilda start dominating and are top 4 regulars the future of the code will still be in jeapody? Not to mention GWS being a potential force, Sydney and Adelaide being consistently competitive, and a WA side being close to the pin, you still think that's a bad look?

I can guarantee you that those 4 Victorian sides being top brass in the AFL finals set up would totally take the shine of your 'top 4'.

Let's face it mate, Carlton has been non competitive since 2001 when they beat Adelaide in an elimination final, Essendon tarnished their name by cheating and could always be associated with that, Richmond don't win finals, and Collingwood have gone to the dogs under their favourite son.

 

[Sausages]

A deconstruction:

All black and white images, of one person. Perhaps they are a powerful person in real life, as they are alone and perhaps thus not seemingly in need of assistance. A decision maker or executive. The colour scheme must have some bearing in their life.

It might show a cycle they have or are going through, a pattern of the life thus led.

Hmmmm.....

 

[Boxhead_31]

Tell the big 4 to get their act's together off the field like all the other clubs.
Get boards and Presidents in that put the right people in the right positions and give them the means they need for the club to succeed, then step back an allow them to do what you hired them to do and not be heard from every 5 mins.

 

[iameviljez]

First things first - this is not the 1980s, and so the Big Four are Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast and Adelaide. If a "big" team starts losing, it starts falling back to the pack in terms of supporter base, and so they are no longer the biggest fish in the pond. Back fifty years ago you would have said that Melbourne was a massive club, and that one-flag rabble from Hawthorn was a side for no-hopers. Things change.

Clubs don't carry the competition, the game carries the competition. Kids don't fall in love with footy because they fall in love with Collingwood, they fall in love with footy and they pick a team. If a "small" team starts doing well, they grow their fanbase and become more stable... and isn't that want we want for the competition?

Fans of certain clubs - principally StKilda, Melbourne, Fitzroy, Footscray - came to expect that they'd never see a flag, and could book holidays in September with depressing regularity. Not any more, suckers - and that means that clubs like Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and Richmond are now copping what it feels like to be in the lower half of the ladder for longer than a season. Get used to it - most of the rest of us, already have.

 

[demondavey]

With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code.
Carlton and Essendon are there because of penalties for cheating, and it could be argued that they deserve it. Collingwood and Richmond are there because of their own decisions to some extent. For the AFL, the concern has to be that these four teams carry the bulk of the rusted on supporters of the code, and their extended occupancy of the lower reaches must have severe effects on revenue and general support for football.
The expansion clubs are the problem, because they have little support, and what they have is ephemeral. OK when they are successful, but non existant when they are not.
The AFL has looked to recruiting as the solution. The draft was introduced to remedy the problems of power clubs having access to the best talent through their financial strength, minising the chances of success for the others. To expand, the draft was compromised for years to give the new clubs a chance. The former power clubs have been forced down by lack of talent when they chose, and smetimes poor or unlucky choices with what they did get.
Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.
The other aspect of acadamies, that they bring in talented players that might not otherwise choose the code, needs an AFL controlled administration that brings on these players in non AFL states.

There are many problems here, and a clear program to solve tehm needs to be prepared. If it is not, then the collapse of the melbourne supporter base that carries the AFL can be expected. A Tasmanian team is an essential part of this, to regain the pathway that once drew most Tasmanian athletes to football. There is probably not a lot of time left for this.

Further to reading your garbage, you've suggested that the draft has been compromised by academies and father son rules? Mate, give me a spell. Geelong and Hawthorn have 7 flags between them since 2007! They've done that because they haven't relied on a draft but what's called a winning culture entrenched within their organisations. Richmond, Carlton, Essendon have been deserving of everything they've got for adopting a non competitive B grade approach for years. Collingwood have faired better but made the mistake of moving on MM.

You're head is in the sand pal, you're a sour pies fan having a whinge and blaming the AFL for your 'big 4' being 'little 4'.

 

[Sausages]

Well, the Pies DID take aim at us after 2002-03.

You don't rise to the top without stomping every other bastard down.

Voss taught Burns that.

 

[Royal Flush]

Maybe we can have a weekly membership ladder and no cut off's for club memberships. Then we can have two ladders, a regular one and a membership one. That'll satisfy everyone.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Sausages]

And crowds being up when the Big 4 are down - yeah, that's coz we all wanna come watch the slaughter

 

[iameviljez]

Now, the draft is further compromised by acadamies and father son rules. Future trading of draft picks is fraught too. If there is going to be a draft, and it seems necessary to reduce the effects of wealth, then it should be exactly what teh simplest version would suggest. A selection based on reverse ladder position with rigorous prevention of cheating. No acadamies and no father son rules.

Father-son is one of the best rules in the AFL. It's great seeing sons of club stalwarts lining up in their Dad's colours. Really, Liberatore, Moore, Wallis, Hawkins and Viney are names that belong with their respective clubs and it's right that they are there. Could you imagine if another had selected Ablett? Fans would have burned the grandstand down.

No, I am not saying this because Hawkins fell into our lap.

 

[Forever North]

Why is Richmond considered 'big 4'? Doesn't 35 years of shitness count for anything? Carlton and Essendon simply have themselves to blame for their predicament arrogantly thinking that they can still cheat and lie their way to success and that no one would actually notice. And Collingwood??? Well wtf were they thinking getting rid of Malthouse who had the respect of the players and allowing control freak Buckley to split up one of the youngest lists to win a flag. Seems it was a case of change for the sake of change, typical managerial tripe. Its now massively backfired on them. Footy is cyclical and their time will eventually come around again provided they learn from their arrogance, dumb decisions and delusions of grandeur.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Incompetence aside, i do think finals are better when at least one traditional big4 member is there

 

[DEVO]

Now we should be talking about mergers. Reduce the league to a more managable 16 teams and a reduction in the number of Melbourne clubs.

Possible new teams:
The Carlton Magpies in Navy Blue and Black Vertical Stripes.
The Richmond Bombers in Black with a Red and Yellow sash.

 

[Hawkk]

Maybe we can have a weekly membership ladder and no cut off's for club memberships. Then we can have two ladders, a regular one and a membership one. That'll satisfy everyone.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Even then not one of the big 4 teams is on top of the membership ladder either