The big 4 clubs and the AFL's future

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Because the actually cheated, North didn't cheat in the 70's they did what they did within the rules.

I am saying most clubs at the time cheated, Carlton included. We just get talked about more than any other club.

 

[King 05]

With Carlton, Collingwood. Essendon and Richmond entrenched in the bottom third of the ladder, there should be real concerns for the future of the code............

The 1970's called......... they need you back!!

 

[Seedsfan]

I would love nothing more to see all four in the top four by 2020

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You are all saying Carlton cheated. So you aren't going to say North Melbourne cheated in the 70's where they bought Blight, Cable, Rantell, Barrassi (coach) etc. or Richmond when they got players. Carlton may have bought players, but everyone else did it at the time or at leased tried to, everyone who doesn't barrack for Carlton is just JELOUS that we did it better than anyone. It was actually fact that everyone wanted to be like Carlton at the time. Essendon cheated the salary cap in 93 and won the flag, but weren't caught, it is just because the AFL hates Carlton so much that they penalized us so much.

Those clubs didn't break the trade rules of the day, they exploited them better than everyone else

How did the kangas cheat using the 10 year rule??

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

Those clubs didn't break the trade rules of the day, they exploited them better than everyone else

How did the kangas cheat using the 10 year rule??

That is what I am saying. North used the rules that were their at the time. So did Carlton when they recruited. My point is that if you are going to criticise Carlton, you need to look at the other clubs.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That is what I am saying. North used the rules that were their at the time. So did Carlton when they recruited. My point is that if you are going to criticise Carlton, you need to look at the other clubs.

Carlton didnt use the rules. They shat all over them with illegal payments outside the cap

All clubs did it to varying degrees, but only essendon and Carlton were too arrogant to fess up during the amnesty

 

[Ice-Wolf]

All clubs did it to varying degrees, but only essendon and Carlton were too arrogant to fess up during the amnesty

I'd say stupid rather than arrogant, they were given a get out of jail free card and refused to take it.

 

[telsor]

That is what I am saying. North used the rules that were their at the time. So did Carlton when they recruited. My point is that if you are going to criticise Carlton, you need to look at the other clubs.

So your argument is that everyone did it, but we shouldn't be mean to you just because you were the ones dumb enough to get caught with your arms shoulder deep in the cookie jar?

Perhaps Carlton should use that as their new slogan..."Be nice to us, because we're stupid."

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

So your argument is that everyone did it, but we shouldn't be mean to you just because you were the ones dumb enough to get caught with your arms shoulder deep in the cookie jar?

Perhaps Carlton should use that as their new slogan..."Be nice to us, because we're stupid."

It is ironical that you are quick to lay into Carlton and Essendon (personally I agree about them) and they have both won 16 premierships. To sum it up if we hadn't been as successful you probably wouldn't be talking about us as much as you would. Perhaps you should call your slogan "We can't be as good as Carlton so we just be jealous and hate them", finally mate I don't want any bad blood, I am just having my opinion on why Carlton and Essendon are so hated by other clubs.

 

[telsor]

It is ironical that you are quick to lay into Carlton and Essendon (personally I agree about them) and they have both won 16 premierships. To sum it up if we hadn't been as successful you probably wouldn't be talking about us as much as you would. Perhaps you should call your slogan "We can't be as good as Carlton so we just be jealous and hate them", finally mate I don't want any bad blood, I am just having my opinion on why Carlton and Essendon are so hated by other clubs.

Do you think it's just a coincidence that the 2 clubs with the most premierships are the biggest cheats?

 

[Keyza]

You are all saying Carlton cheated. So you aren't going to say North Melbourne cheated in the 70's where they bought Blight, Cable, Rantell, Barrassi (coach) etc. or Richmond when they got players. Carlton may have bought players, but everyone else did it at the time or at leased tried to, everyone who doesn't barrack for Carlton is just JELOUS that we did it better than anyone. It was actually fact that everyone wanted to be like Carlton at the time. Essendon cheated the salary cap in 93 and won the flag, but weren't caught, it is just because the AFL hates Carlton so much that they penalized us so much.

Actually Essendon were caught cheating in 1993 but for some reason the AFL has allowed them to keep the premiership for that year. Mind boggling really.

 

[Keyza]

Carlton didnt use the rules. They shat all over them with illegal payments outside the cap

All clubs did it to varying degrees, but only essendon and Carlton were too arrogant to fess up during the amnesty

Clubs that fessed up during the amnesty, which was a lot of clubs, did not get penalised. Carlton did fess up but were stupid enough to do it again.

 

[Keyza]

Do you think it's just a coincidence that the 2 clubs with the most premierships are the biggest cheats?

Yes, how many premierships have these clubs won since the introduction of the salary cap?

 

[harmesy 37]

Because the actually cheated, North didn't cheat in the 70's they did what they did within the rules.

The 10 year rule lasted 1 year as a result of North Melbourne basically buying up club legends from other clubs and pushing wages out of control. They got Rantall as well.
It came in in 1973 and finished in 1974 due to North Melbourne's big $$$$$ spending.


Doug Wade signed up with paper bags full of $$$$ money.

He actually signed up as a result of wads of cash being unwrapped in front of him.

You need to study your football history a bit more.

He does tell of his departure for North Melbourne after Kangaroo officials met him with a wad of cash.

"We get up there and I was by myself ... in those days at the bank they'd bundle the notes up with brown paper and string, and that's how they'd stack them," Wade said.

"I said 'no' and he (Ron Joseph) cut the string ... and when it flew open, the notes just slid across the table and I said 'how much is in there?'

"And he said 'look, that's yours if you sign'."


In regards to the "Big 4" - Carlton is no longer a "Big 4" club and the chance of the AFL getting 95,000 to an ordinary finals match plus massive h&a crowds is basically eroded as people have lost confidence in the program of "equalisation", which is really a euphemism about subduing Carlton and other clubs, and assisting other clubs. North Melbourne being a major beneficiary of "equalisation". Soon Brisbane will be too. $$$$ has flown freely from the AFL to North Melbourne and Brisbane, but not so freely to Carlton..

 

[carnthedons]

Actually Essendon were caught cheating in 1993 but for some reason the AFL has allowed them to keep the premiership for that year. Mind boggling really.

Carlton breached the salary cap in that season too, fwiw

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

The 10 year rule lasted 1 year as a result of North Melbourne basically buying up club legends from other clubs and pushing wages out of control. They got Rantall as well.
It came in in 1973 and finished in 1974 due to North Melbourne's big $$$$$ spending.


Doug Wade signed up with paper bags full of $$$$ money.

He actually signed up as a result of wads of cash being unwrapped in front of him.

You need to study your football history a bit more.

He does tell of his departure for North Melbourne after Kangaroo officials met him with a wad of cash.

"We get up there and I was by myself ... in those days at the bank they'd bundle the notes up with brown paper and string, and that's how they'd stack them," Wade said.

"I said 'no' and he (Ron Joseph) cut the string ... and when it flew open, the notes just slid across the table and I said 'how much is in there?'

"And he said 'look, that's yours if you sign'."


In regards to the "Big 4" - Carlton is no longer a "Big 4" club and the chance of the AFL getting 95,000 to an ordinary finals match plus massive h&a crowds is basically eroded as people have lost confidence in the program of "equalisation", which is really a euphemism about subduing Carlton and other clubs, and assisting other clubs. North Melbourne being a major beneficiary of "equalisation". Soon Brisbane will be too. $$$$ has flown freely from the AFL to North Melbourne and Brisbane, but not so freely to Carlton..

Best comment all day. Shows accurately shows what used to happen in those days. Carlton isn't a big 4 club anymore because of the lack of equalization. Guess the AFL will never forgive the blues.

 

[walhawk]

It is ironical that you are quick to lay into Carlton and Essendon (personally I agree about them) and they have both won 16 premierships. To sum it up if we hadn't been as successful you probably wouldn't be talking about us as much as you would. Perhaps you should call your slogan "We can't be as good as Carlton so we just be jealous and hate them", finally mate I don't want any bad blood, I am just having my opinion on why Carlton and Essendon are so hated by other clubs.

Or if you hadn't cheated so much, you might not have 16 premierships.

 

[MarkT2]

Actually Essendon were caught cheating in 1993 but for some reason the AFL has allowed them to keep the premiership for that year. Mind boggling really.

Carlton kept 1995.

 

[Keyza]

Carlton breached the salary cap in that season too, fwiw

I dont think they did and they also didnt win the premiership.

 

[Keyza]

Carlton kept 1995.

Carlton didnt breach the salary cap in 1995 so what is your point?
Of course you can provide some proof of this and when you cant you can retract that post.

 

[carnthedons]

I dont think they did and they also didnt win the premiership.

Three clubs were fined for minor breaches in 1993: Melbourne ($13,450), Carlton ($9,750) and Footscray ($2,700).

In 1994, Carlton were fined $50,000 after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $85,000 during the 1993 season

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_salary_cap

I realize they didn't win but you can hardly bitch about being beaten by a team over the cap when you were yourselves.

 

[Keyza]

Three clubs were fined for minor breaches in 1993: Melbourne ($13,450), Carlton ($9,750) and Footscray ($2,700).

In 1994, Carlton were fined $50,000 after it was found that they had exceeded the salary cap by $85,000 during the 1993 season

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFL_salary_cap

I realize they didn't win but you can hardly bitch about being beaten by a team over the cap when you were yourselves.

Thanks for that, still didnt win the premiership that year. That is a long list of clubs breaching the cap yet only Essendon and Carlton are talked about.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

As much as Carlton hates Essendon or Collingwood hates Carlton or Richmond hates Collingwood, we need to remember when the big 4 clubs are at the top of the ladder/finals the AFL crowds are at an all time high. eg 2011 the average attendance for the comp was 36 428 when Collingwood were minor premiers, Carlton were 5th and Essendon 8th while Richmond weren't far off finals. This year the average attendance is just over 30 000. Hawthorn can be as good as they can but will never pull the crowds that the big 4 would pull if they were at the top. As much as we hate each other, be need to remember when we are healthy, the AFL is healthy.

 

[Gibbke]

This thread is awesome!!!

Here I am, kinda liking the team in 2016 due solely to Brendon Bolton, forgetting the fire, the passion, which used to rev up my four decade hatred for Carlton...

Thanks, blinkered, arrogant and lately rather quiet Blues supporters - I feel like I just found $20 in the back pocket of trousers I haven't worn since 2001...!

Big thumbs up to the other three, too...who knows, pull your fingers out and your Big Four might one day match The Big One (based on memberships and current flags)...

 

[Heardy_101]

As much as Carlton hates Essendon or Collingwood hates Carlton or Richmond hates Collingwood, we need to remember when the big 4 clubs are at the top of the ladder/finals the AFL crowds are at an all time high. eg 2011 the average attendance for the comp was 36 428 when Collingwood were minor premiers, Carlton were 5th and Essendon 8th while Richmond weren't far off finals. This year the average attendance is just over 30 000. Hawthorn can be as good as they can but will never pull the crowds that the big 4 would pull if they were at the top. As much as we hate each other, be need to remember when we are healthy, the AFL is healthy.

Are you actually serious?

The AFL is having one of it's best seasons and none of the"Big 4 are having healthy years nor are they achieving much. Hawthorn are pulling crowds to make even Collingwood jealous these days.

The AFL does not need the so-called "Big Four" to be healthy and the competition is doing fine without them dominating. Look at the EPL - would you say that competition is unhealthy because Leicester won the title and Manchester City didn't?