The Big AFL Lie

[Pessimistic]

The AFL constantly claim that the competition is great but that up to five clubs cannot survive long term in Victoria. Thats over 25% of the competition in trouble so it can't be all roses can it ?

It's all part of the well-known conspiracy to shape the competition into some 'idealist' structure that would make a communist or fascist proud.

But can they answer this ? If a club cannot survive in melbourne what chance has it in sydney, where it took several millions to get the swans off 'the bottom of the harbour' or the gold coast (or even fremantle)

I believe they would be better served shoring up the competition as it stands. Get Fremantle out of the 'basket' Build bridges to SE melbourne fans angry about waverley park
Work on building up the percieved 'integrity' of the commission (it's quite low at the moment)

 

[Marcus]

Pessimistic, I couldn't agree more. Melbourne is supposed to be 'the jewel' in the AFL crown but I don't believe any other body would have treated their 'jewel' so shabbily.

Everything the AFL does is designed to disenchant the 'true' supporter and attract the 'theatregoer' with money. The AFL are currently in the process of 'reeducating' the supporter. We won't be making any last minute plans to go to the footy with a few mates. We've got to plan and pay in advance or stay home and watch it on telly (if your team is considered worty of been shown, of course).

One day the AFL will have pissed off enough people and the footy will no longer be the 'in' thing with the money crowd. I'm sorry to say, 'I'd like to see that'!!!

 

[What are you on]

Melbourne treated shabbily? What? Explain how you think that when there are heaps more games there than there are anywhere else- five each weekend compared with at most one in any other place. Of those five games there will be two or three with very low crowds. Because there are so many games in Melbourne the fans have to miss games much less often because their team is interstate. Yet in Sydney and Perth and Adelaide there are membership sell outs. Stadium lockouts every single game that Sydney or Crows play at home and just about the same for Eagles. Not much help from opposition club fans to get those lockout gates either. Pessimistic you need a reality check mate.

 

[Power Mad]

Fremantle don't really need any help from the AFL. Off-field they are one of the most financially successful clubs in the league. They've just made some dumb choices with coaches and players in the past which have stalled their on-field progress and given them the poor image they currently have. It will take them probably 3 or more seasons to become a finals contender, but they are by no means a basket case.

As for reducing the number of Victorian clubs, so long as they can remain financially viable they should be allowed to stay in the competition.

However, a 12 team AFL - with 6 Vic teams - would create the ideal balance. If there were ever to be second teams in NSW or Qld, a 14 team competion might work if they got rid of the Ansett Cup.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

As much as it pains me, Power Mad is right- Freo will be fine in the long run. They have pretty much half the suport over here of football followers, and their members are real fans, not like some of ours. Financially they're good, and are building new training facilities (Fremantle Oval) in the next couple of years. Obviously their home ground (Subi) has also been redeveloped.
What they actually need are a few 'big' signings of middle-aged players. Modra and Fletcher have helped, but are now 30+, and their new recruits are very good (watch for Haselby), but they're not starring NOW. I don't know if the AFL could (or would) help them out with that, but they will be a strong club in not too many years.

 

[Pessimistic]

Sorry guys I obscured my main point by touching on fremantle etc.

The point is:

The AFL wants to re-locate one or two teams because they can't all 'survive' in melbourne. Even though most have done so for a hundred years.

If they can't survive here what chance do they have anywhere else. using the swans as an example it would tale many tens of millions in todays dollars to establish a team somewhere else, yet the AFL has a greed to 11 games per year in Homebush from next year, that's when there is still an agreement to play at least 6 swans games at the scg.
Unless they re-locate someone to sydney then that means the swans will have 17 home games each season.

 

[jennifer]

As I said elsewhere on this forum, Melbourne supporters are not becoming members of their clubs. Some games have trouble breaking even on costs, like any North match.Unless its against a Carlton , Essendon.Thats why North are looking towards other states for membership, a matter of survival. I know of heaps of North supporters who refuse to take out membership, some dont even go regularly to the matches.Until that basic problem is solved, some weaker melbourne clubs will always struggle.
I think that a club at Southport would be exceptionally well supported. They already have 50,000 members. SO their is a ready made audience of current afl mad members, not just supporters.

 

[Pessimistic]

I would like to suggest that the games in melbourne which are not breaking even are those against interstate teams. I would say it is a rare game between 2 melbourne sides that draws less than 30,000 these days. perhaps at 'inadequate' stadiums like Optus or Shell (Why did Waverley have to close if these are still open)

I state again that Interstate and melbourne sides need each other, but the interstate sides have a bigger need than the melbourne ones.

Put it another way, your an eagles supporter, which are the games you look forward to most ? Brisbane ? Sydney ? Adelaide ? or even Freo ? I think Not. It's essendon etc

 

[Pessimistic]

OK The winging is over. how about some suggestions.

Someone mentioned southport (I thought that was a place in england with a 4-mile wide beach) and Tassie, ACT are always on about an AFL team

Why not leave the AFL as it is for now and experiment with the VFL, which has been changed this year anyway.

My suggestion is to expand the VFL and call it AFL division 2 or SEAFL (South east australian football league)Invite these hopeful 'areas' to esablish teams there and therefore get a chance to 'prove' they can rise to AFL level. It would also allow the current 'strugglers' to remain intact in a lower league instead of merging or extinction.

The league would be in 'conferences' based on area and teams within the conference play each other twice, plus some games against teams in other conferences. This would allow some travel but not too much to keep costs down. There would be the current VFL clubs, one or two from tassie, ACT, Southport and other country areas like Wagga, Albury etc. Perhaps even SA clubs and NT.

The experience might even prove that the current AFL could be converted to 20 teams or so, using some sort of conference system. Or it might be more attractive for some current AFL teams to 'fall' into the new division2, where they would be more successful

 

[Keir]

Jennifer, you're right in that part of the problem is fans not actually joining their club. However, with the membership fees involved for some clubs (>$100 for Collingwood, I read somewhere) is it any wonder? I can't think of any club, football or otherwise, that I'd pay that kind of money to join.

Keir.

 

[Jennifer]

I agree about the cost of memberships.They are dear. My sister is in Brisbane and its 250 for 11 games up there.Most of the seating is reserved apparantly.Not for me,you could get some awful seat or person next to you.I like how it is in Melbourne.
I have been to matches in the last few years for the Doggies and Melbourne against other melbourne clubs. Some were under 25,000 people. Especially one in particular against Nth.So their are some problems with Melbourne based supporters. Not just interstate matches as previously said.

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Well if the problem games are those played in Melbourne between 1 Victorian team, and 1 interstate teams, well the solution is simple!
Play them all at the interstate teams home ground!
Can't speak for any other clubs, but I'm sure the Eagles would oblige....

And I think you're wrong about which games in Perth are most popular. Derbys are ALWAYS sell-outs, and the games myself and fellow members look forward to are v Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide, Essendon, Bulldogs (cos there's always trouble) and possibly North. Nobody gives a sh!t about the Melbourne, Richmond, Geelong, Collingwood or even Hawthorn games (although they sometimes sell out due to WA-based Hawk fans).

Anyway, this is getting off topic.

 

[Pessimistic]

Thanks for the feedback, Eagle Fan. Our games against Freo are always poorly attended (12-13,000) Perhaps we should play them twice in the west. We'd still win both handsomely !

 

[What are you on]

Pessimistic says -I would like to suggest that the games in melbourne which are not breaking even are those against interstate teams.

But he seems to forget that many games that are SELLOUTS at venues in Sydney, Adelaide and Perth are ALSO against clubs from another state - Victoria. Why are the games between clubs from different states poorly attended only in Victoria?

 

[Joel]

I am Victorian. Its pretty simple, Victorians (most) never wanted a national competition in the first place. BUT it needed to expand as it would never (probably) survive on its on in Victoria. Games against other clubs (interstate), maybe except for Sydney, because of their South Melbourne connection, seem a waste a time, maybe inferior football (that is a stupid comment because most interstate clubs are quality sides). I think its just a stae of mind. By the way don't make comments from the outside saying Victorians aren't treated shabbily, if they weren't then why can I ask have attendence dropped in the last 2 seasons? Not because the quality of the football i suspect!

 

[What are you on]

You don't seem to realise what is going on here. Pessimistic says - I would say it is a rare game between 2 melbourne sides that draws less than 30,000 these days. I would say you would bloody well hope so, 30,000 is piss poor when two clubs can draw fans to the gate. Only in Melbourne would a local derby draw that low. So theres all these ten a penny games in Melbourne with bloody low crowds and yet you try and say its because you are treated shabbily? Yet you get all the games there? What are you guys on? Have you no sense of irony?

By the way why is it OK for Melbourne fans to have all these potshots about interstate sides yet people from interstate are not allowed to comment on the spoilt fans in Melbourne? You make no sense Joel.

 

[Pessimistic]

Latest news id the AFL now give the Kangaroos 1 million to play in sydney

Other clubs will not be happy but I predict it will take may tens of millios to establish a second team there - Can they really afford it ?

 

[AndyD]

I wonder if people will still be saying the same old 10 teams= too many in 7 years time?

 

[steve-o]

I wonder if people will still be saying the same old 10 teams= too many in 7 years time?

1) Yes.
2) WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?

 

[maroon and blue]

Is it me or is there something freaky going on with this thread.

 

[steve-o]

This one was better:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2

And this was a riot:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100