The Big Footy Liverpool Army

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apollo_creed

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JLC said:
Well Heskey at £5.5 million and Bellamy at £6 million - I know who i would be choosing.
Who?

Heskey is far more proven than Bellamy will ever be.

The beauty with Rafa is that he does not have to buy READY MADE stars.
Liverpool spend alot of money. More than 90% of other Premier League clubs, put whatever spin on it you want but 7 million for Crouch is alot of money.

He has taken the likes of Alonso, Crouch and Garcia and moulded them into much better players.
I doubt you saw either player at their previous clubs based on that statement.

Crouch is no better than he was when he arrived. I remember him back at Villa 2 or 3 years ago, and he looked better than he has anytime at Liverpool so far. The fact you're trying to paint Crouch as a success when he was nothing other than a universal joke last season (his pathetic goal tally will attest to that), and didn't perform to a standard you'd expect from a 7 million pound striker.

Alonso is no better than he was in Spain. And Garcia has scarcely improved, he was more of a bench player than anything last season for Liverpool.

But no by all means Rafa has taken these no-names and turned them into worldwide superstars.

Its not about what Bellamy has done in the past, its all about what he is going to do in the future.
If he hasn't done it in the past don't you think there's a reason. Don't you think there's a reason why Newcastle let him go (ie; he wasn't good enough for a big club AND is nothing other than a trouble maker). He isn't a world class striker, Liverpool are a world class team. It doesn't fit dude. I'm sorry.

I am sure Rafa will be able to get the best out of Bellamy.
But is the best good enough?

No.

As for Trezeguet we will proably get him on a season long loan anyway.
Not if he has to play second fiddle to the sublime talents of Craig Bellamy. Becuase either way one of the two will play upfront alongside Crouch.

I do not think we are obsessed with Chelsea it is merely that they are the benchmark when it comes to buying players etc. For the time being they are the team with all the money.
But Liverpool is the team with all the money compared to more than 3/4 of other Premier League clubs. Now you know what it's like for smaller clubs competing with the likes of Liverpool.
 

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apollo_creed

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Ed_Gein said:
We have to work within what we have available. Rafa is obviously looking at strengthening a few areas and we can't all blow it on 1 player. We can't go around spending 24m on Drogba, 17m on Duff etc...
Liverpool never wastes money on overpriced and expensive players :p

And I don't know why this argument is being brought out anyway.

You can afford Trezeguet. That's all I said, I think Bellamy is crap and now you have him you probably won't try and sign Trezeguet. A proven world class, big stage, quality goalscorer. Something Liverpool have lacked since the departure of Owen.

You may think Bellamy is better than Trezeguet as a player.
Distinguish between fact and opinion, because in that case I'm quite clearly relaying fact.

I have nothing against Liverpool but if they are to break their title drought they're going to have to do a little better in the transfer market than they currently are. Passing up Trezeguet and signing Bellamy is a big mistake.

As a fan of Bolton, I'm neutral to the top teams but I just want to see competition between the big 4 (and Tottenham are fast approaching) for the title. I've done the math, analysed the situation and I don't see how signing Bellamy will help Liverpool's pursuit of Chelsea's title.

but his record in the Serie A will count for nothing if he makes the move to the Premier League and turns out to be a flop...
It'll count for nothing if he comes and scores 100 goals for Liverpool next season. Different league, different season. Who cares, right?

But he's proven, in a harder league for goalscorers.
Bellamy's had what 5 or 6 seasons in England and has hardly set goalscoring records. So he's flopped for 5 seasons straight. ;)

Ask Kezman.
Kezman played in Holland and was far from proven in Europe.

Dirk Kuyt anyone?
 

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moomba said:
He'll do well to get two and half times Darren Bents 22 goals last season, or even three and a half times Darius Vassell's 11.

I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.
Didn't realise they had gone that cheaply, :eek:
 

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Nip/Tuck said:
I have nothing against Liverpool but if they are to break their title drought they're going to have to do a little better in the transfer market than they currently are. Passing up Trezeguet and signing Bellamy is a big mistake.
Who's to say Trezeguet wants to come to Liverpool even if we were after him? He may have his sights set on a move back to France, who knows?

Nip/Tuck said:
It'll count for nothing if he comes and scores 100 goals for Liverpool next season. Different league, different season. Who cares, right?
What are next weeks lotto numbers? :p

Nip/Tuck said:
But he's proven, in a harder league for goalscorers.
Bellamy's had what 5 or 6 seasons in England and has hardly set goalscoring records. So he's flopped for 5 seasons straight. ;)
We'll see how he does in a Liverpool shirt. Bellamy was outstanding for Blackburn and i'm sure he'll do just as well for Liverpool.

Nip/Tuck said:
As a fan of Bolton, I'm neutral to the top teams but I just want to see competition between the big 4 (and Tottenham are fast approaching) for the title. I've done the math, analysed the situation and I don't see how signing Bellamy will help Liverpool's pursuit of Chelsea's title.
Perhaps he's not the big name signing or a household name, but if we can get 15 league goals out of him this coming season i don't see what the fuss is about.

Nip/Tuck said:
Kezman played in Holland and was far from proven in Europe.

Dirk Kuyt anyone?
Kezman had a better goal average than Ronaldo and RvN whilst they were at the club.
 
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Ed_Gein said:
Who's to say Trezeguet wants to come to Liverpool even if we were after him? He may have his sights set on a move back to France, who knows?
I don't know if trezeguet's ever played in france. although born in france while his argentine dad was playing professional football there he grew up in argentina, and when he first played as a french youth international he couldn't even speak french

ah, I take it all back, wikipedia informs me juventus signed him from monaco
 

apollo_creed

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jeka said:
Infact I'll go as far as to say I believe Bellamy will score more than Shevchenko in the forth-coming season.
That could very well happen. (providing Shevchenko suffers a season ending leg injury on the opening day)

Per million spent Bellamy will score more than any PL signing of the last 5 yrs. (Henry will still be stop scorer mind;) )
I know Moomba's already pulled this beauty apart but I reckon comments like this are best reserved to be made by Jod.
 

apollo_creed

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jod23 said:
What are you on about? Look back on any of my posts in the past month and I was probably the most put off about signing Bellamy and im still not happy that we did.
Fair enough Jod, for that I apologise.

I think he is a twat. But now he is a Red, Ill support and I hope to god Rafa can make him twice the player he is and I hope he bangs in 20 goals next season.
Welcome back.

Bellamy was knocking them in for fun whilst Morientes looked slow and average.
'knocking them in for fun'? He had a good run there but so far his career has been dissapointing and he has been a failure. One half decent season doesn't suddenly make him 'world class'.

Bottom line is that Bellamy is somewhat proven in the English game, DT is not, and we see it far too often with foreign players failing in England.
Somewhat proven? I'd say he is still very unproven and he has had a long time in the system at two different clubs.

Rafa is turning that around though. We closed the gap by a massive margin last season
Hardly. Liverpool never looked like challenging Chelsea and the final margin between the two teams flattered Liverpool as Chelsea lost their last two matches to Blackburn and Newcastle after already winning the title as they took their foot of the pedal and rested key players. So you can really add 6 points onto whatever the difference between the two teams ended up being.

And add to that the two times you played Chelsea last year in the Premiership you were smashed.

and despite Chelsea signing Shev and Ballack I think we can close the gap again.
Fair enough. Even though there's no logic behind what you're saying. ;)
 

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jod23 said:
Bottom line is that Bellamy is somewhat proven in the English game
13 goals in the league isn't exactly what I'd call prolific. Andy Cole wasn't too far off that and he missed half a season through injury.

Having said that I don't think the tw@t will do that badly at Liverpool. He offers something that isn't already there and thats pace. Playing off Crouch, or Fowler he should get opportunities, and I think double figures would be a decent return.

£6m (or whatever you paid) is too much IMO, but it's not like Liverpool haven't been down that road before.
 

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Bellamy's goal scoring record throughout his career has been very good

6 mil certainly ain't too much, ask a Blackburn fan and they'll tell you that's a bargain after the season he had for them with 17 goals in 32

He's very good player who has been injury-prone and also a victim of his own extreme stupidity. His ability's never the problem.

I don't want him, but he'll do well in our current side.
 

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Cooldude said:
Bellamy's goal scoring record throughout his career has been very good
Career 1 in 3 man, I doubt he's ever scored 15 in the league in a season before (I also doubt he's had more than 1 or 2 in double figures). Had a breakthrough season this last one, but I considered him a similar type player to Vassell in that goals are a bonus rather than something thats expected.
 

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His career record is better than 1/3 and shy of 1/2, in between that.

I'd say that's very decent considering the injury setbacks that he's had and considering that he's been playing for middle of the road clubs like Newcastle and Blackburn

Was extremely impressed with him every time he played for Blackburn last season, a constant threat.

6 mil wouldn't be too much nor too little. If he stays fit and keeps his head nice and level.
 

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Cooldude said:
His career record is better than 1/3 and shy of 1/2, in between that.
86 in 250 in the league, 0.34 a game. Last year was a breakthrough year for him, but he was not prolific at Newcastle, even when they were up there battling for a top 4 spot.

Like I said, never reached 15 in a season, doubt he has reached double figures more than once or twice. Not saying that he can't provide value in other areas, but I remain unconvinced he is going to be a regular goal scorer in a Liverpool side that IMO tends to be more negative than Blackburn or Newcastle.
 

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305 games (29 as a sub) in 110 goals in all comps (I'm talking about career overall, so don't selectively pick just league goals). That's 276 starts with 110 goals, that's not bad. Sub appearrances normally invole a 10-15 minute spell, which is unfair to be put amongst starts to judge a striker on

His rate in his past 3 seasons or so are just shy of one in two, that's not bad.

Don't know how many times you actually saw Blackburn play last season, but Blackburn last season ain't exactly your exhibition of total football, in fact, at times they made Bolton look like Barca
 

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Did I say we are?

We created chances but we had no strikers, we were dogs in the 1st half of the season but had no trouble scoring goals in the 2nd half at all. We ain't Brazil but we certainly ain't no Chelsea

Paying 6 mil for Bellamy's better than paying 10 mil for a Kuyt or 12 mil for a Bent, or a Defoe.
 

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Our first half of the season was a crappy 41 goals in 29 games

Our second half was 51 in 28, and failed to score in only 4 games which were all losses

Nearly two per game ain't exactly the epitomy of negativity, considering that we had crap strikers
 

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moomba said:
Career 1 in 3 man, I doubt he's ever scored 15 in the league in a season before (I also doubt he's had more than 1 or 2 in double figures). Had a breakthrough season this last one, but I considered him a similar type player to Vassell in that goals are a bonus rather than something thats expected.
1997-98 13 goals
1998-99 17 goals

that's the only 2 seasons he has hit double figures :thumbsu:
 

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When had I ever singled out league games?

Don't be daft, AC, use your head to realise that I was obviously talking about all comps

If it's league games then it proves me point even more, two of the games we couldn't score were CL games against Benfica.
 

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Nip/Tuck said:
Fair enough Jod, for that I apologise.
Good.


Nip/Tuck said:
'knocking them in for fun'? He had a good run there but so far his career has been dissapointing and he has been a failure. One half decent season doesn't suddenly make him 'world class'.
I love how you add your own spin to stuff. If somebody read this they would think I said Bellamy was "world class" I said he was knocking them in for fun which generally means he had a good season and scored some goals. Which he did. He isnt world class and I never said he was? But hey, keep twisting everything round to make it sound better for you.


Nip/Tuck said:
Hardly. Liverpool never looked like challenging Chelsea and the final margin between the two teams flattered Liverpool as Chelsea lost their last two matches to Blackburn and Newcastle after already winning the title as they took their foot of the pedal and rested key players. So you can really add 6 points onto whatever the difference between the two teams ended up being.

And add to that the two times you played Chelsea last year in the Premiership you were smashed.
We never looked like challenging them thats true but we did have a couple of outstanding runs where we won 10 or so straight, didnt concede a goal for 12 games or something like that. If we can get more consistent and turn around those losses to Chelsea into wins, we will be a lot closer to the title than you think.


Nip/Tuck said:
Fair enough. Even though there's no logic behind what you're saying. ;)
Logic? I dont need logic. I hope and I support. I hope we win the title, I hope Bellamy bangs in 20 goals. I hope and I support.
 
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