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Cooldude

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Don't think it's as bad as all that, we literally romped the league last year with this squad. If you look at Dortmund - Yurgen had them up and firing for a few years but the high octane stuff takes it's toll (he got two titles with BD in a one team league) especially in a league like the prem which is a lot more competitive than the Bundesliga. There's questions though I guess like even how long will Klopp stick around for - I think at Dortmund they kind of bottomed out a bit and then he got kind of up there again and then left. I don't think he does a whole rebuild here... which kind of makes me sad. I feel like we were more reliant on VVD than was realized, I guess that's the difference between us and a City - we just managed to get a bunch of transfers spot on with little margin for error but when Pickford takes out our best player that's it.
I dunno, complete rebuild might've been a strong word, but our best players are all 30 next year: Mane, Salah, Virgil, Hendo. A few of them already look jaded from 4 years of high octane football so it's hard to ask them to do the same when they are into their 30s

It's gonna be a tough job for Jurgen, that's if he is around for long enough to see it through, it'll take more than just until 2024
 

Dylan8

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Don't think it's as bad as all that, we literally romped the league last year with this squad...
If we romped the league last season without Gomez and Virgil then it's comparable

I just can't buy the rebuild stuff. The only argument that this season isn't a total aberration is that the fitness demands have cooked the squad, and they are totally valid given the high octane nature of our whole thing PLUS the small turnaround of seasons due to last season's July finish. It's just far too early to call. I won't feel too much negative about finishing like 8th, even if we bomb out of the last 8 in the CL. Big assessment of the squad ahead of next season though and of course there will be a lot swirling around about Salah or Mane wanting out, truth or otherwise.
 

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Holden Hillbilly

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Can't come soon enough, Mane and Firmino need better competition for spots than just Origi
Firmino is the weakest link and will be sold if we are to buy a high profile forward (though unlikely as who would want to come to a side not playing CL or even Europa at this stage).
 

kane249

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Firmino is the weakest link and will be sold if we are to buy a high profile forward (though unlikely as who would want to come to a side not playing CL or even Europa at this stage).
I'd be happy to drop him down to the bench and use him as rotation, get rid of Origi.
 

Cooldude

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A part of me is wondering if we overrated Bobby's importance to the team. Without Fab and Hendo in midfield, he hasn't really looked like his former self. At least last season he was still showing glimpses.
Nah when he was in his prime he made us tick, I think he's lost a yard this season. Teams also gotten better at shutting down the spaces he operate in

His finishing also gone completely downhill, too
 

The Punter

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Trent had it when Mo sulked.

The leadership group is Hendo captain, Millie vice, and then Virgil & Gini. So I expect Gini will have it for a while.
 

jod23

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Jurg's football has a lifespan, right, every 7 years or so his teams have a massive dip, was like that in Mainz and Dortmund

It's tough that the same group of players who have physically and mentally exert themselves at the highest level for 3-4 years don't have their batteries drained out eventually

He needs to rebuild and get a fresh squad to work with, since this group are around average age of 30, but it's gonna take a while to rebuild, and even tougher without CL football
Where exactly are we rebuilding though?

Bobby is 29, Mo and Mane are 28. They are smack bang in the middle of their prime. We shouldnt be replacing them. Once they hit 31-32 then you start looking at replacements.

Robbo is 26 and TAA is 22. No need for replacements. Gomez is 23 and VVD 29. Again young and in prime. Ali is 28 and entering his prime and has 10 years at the top as a GK. Fab is 27 and entering prime. Henderson is 30 and is about the only key player who is 30 plus.

So without gutting the guys that got us here, what do we do? Sure we could get more support but I feel Kelleher is an excellent number two. Jota an excellent backup for the front three. Maybe we need an out and out striker. Another top class CB.

But a whole rebuild for me seems premature.
 
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jod23

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Bobby needs to go.

Need to go with a back 4 and stick with it.

Shaq and Ox needs to play more.

but FFS lift!!!!!
Ox before his injury was building into some amazing form but ever since that he has looked completely ineffectual. I dont have much faith when he comes on.
 

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jod23

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Yeah his work rate made up for other deficiencies in his game in the past.
But now his lack of scoring and assists has completely dried up his work rate isn't enough to compensate any more.
I'd absolutely still keep Bobby though, he's class, but he desperately needs competition, someone to push him. Right now it's Origi and he's not good enough.
 

Venkman

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Where exactly are we rebuilding though?

Bobby is 29, Mo and Mane are 28. They are smack bang in the middle of their prime. We shouldnt be replacing them. Once they hit 31-32 then you start looking at replacements.

Robbo is 26 and TAA is 22. No need for replacements. Gomez is 23 and VVD 29. Again young and in prime. Ali is 28 and entering his prime and has 10 years at the top as a GK. Fab is 27 and entering prime. Henderson is 30 and is about the only key player who is 30 plus.

So without gutting the guys that got us here, what do we do? Sure we could get more support but I feel Kelleher is an excellent number two. Jota an excellent backup for the front three. Maybe we need an out and out striker. Another top class CB.

But a whole rebuild for me seems premature.
We've got to hope it's a squad re-tweak and not a rebuild - I don't think Klopp hangs around for a full rebuild.
 

simba_

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A part of me is wondering if we overrated Bobby's importance to the team. Without Fab and Hendo in midfield, he hasn't really looked like his former self. At least last season he was still showing glimpses.
bobby has been going absolutely flat out every week every year for 5 years straight (not to mention before that in Germany etc), he's 30 this year, don't think he's all of a sudden overrated
 

The Punter

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Bobby is a Liverpool legend and I wear his number and name on my Liverpool shirt... but he can't score through his skill any more. I hope that changes - would love to see him hit a worldy again. For now, I'd just like to see him hit it on target where the keeper can't get to it.

BTW, apparently Mbappe wants the salary Neymar gets from PSG to stay there. So maybe he doesn't want the paycheck after all.
 

Cooldude

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Where exactly are we rebuilding though?

Bobby is 29, Mo and Mane are 28. They are smack bang in the middle of their prime. We shouldnt be replacing them. Once they hit 31-32 then you start looking at replacements.

Robbo is 26 and TAA is 22. No need for replacements. Gomez is 23 and VVD 29. Again young and in prime. Ali is 28 and entering his prime and has 10 years at the top as a GK. Fab is 27 and entering prime. Henderson is 30 and is about the only key player who is 30 plus.

So without gutting the guys that got us here, what do we do? Sure we could get more support but I feel Kelleher is an excellent number two. Jota an excellent backup for the front three. Maybe we need an out and out striker. Another top class CB.

But a whole rebuild for me seems premature.
Not sure about attackers being in their prime in the 31-32, particularly in the premier league, Sadio's already having a dip this season, like Bob. Only Mo is still hitting his straps.

Back 4, sure, but as we see this season, what held this back 5 together was Virgil, without him it isn't anywhere near enough. He is 30 coming back from an ACL, we should be cautious about whether he ever hits his prime again

The midfield has a lot of 30 something workhorses that are due for a dip because of how hard they've worked for 4 years, and the ones that are of a decent age range are injury prone, like Naby and Ox.

We'll need refreshing in all those areas in the next few years, it ain't gonna be easy
 

jod23

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Not sure about attackers being in their prime in the 31-32, particularly in the premier league, Sadio's already having a dip this season, like Bob. Only Mo is still hitting his straps.

Back 4, sure, but as we see this season, what held this back 5 together was Virgil, without him it isn't anywhere near enough. He is 30 coming back from an ACL, we should be cautious about whether he ever hits his prime again

The midfield has a lot of 30 something workhorses that are due for a dip because of how hard they've worked for 4 years, and the ones that are of a decent age range are injury prone, like Naby and Ox.

We'll need refreshing in all those areas in the next few years, it ain't gonna be easy
Oh for sure I just dont think it's like a pressing concern. I think if everyone comes back and stays fit next season, there is no reason why this squad cant win more silverware.

Alisson
TAA NewCB VVD Robbo
Hendo Fabinho Thiago
Salah NewST Mane

Kelleher Gomez Tsimikas Keita Jones Firmino Jota

That squad can definitely win the PL.
 

QuietB

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Firmino is the weakest link and will be sold if we are to buy a high profile forward (though unlikely as who would want to come to a side not playing CL or even Europa at this stage).
Firmino's play is also one of the biggest missing pieces in the current team. This team needs Firmino playing well - but there is something about the set up which will not let him do it or his form/fitness is so bad he can't.

I am a huge believer of leadership in sporting teams. it is massively underrated. That is where missing VVD is really hurting Liverpool. No VVD in defence, no Hendo in midfield and the whole thing has collapsed.
 

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