The BigFooty Liverpool Army - Part 22

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Coledinho

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But this is just it, if we expect to get back into the CL this season or in coming seasons, make deep cup runs and make a run at a long awaited league title, we cant be selling these players. Whoever we buy to be in the starting 11 that doesnt mean selling Johnson, Downing, Adam and Carroll. That means those guys being on the bench and making the squad really strong.

I mean a bench of Doni, Coates, Johnson, Downing, Adam, Carroll and Kuyt means our starting 11 must be shit hot. :D And it needs to be, we dont sell these players, we upgrade them. Get a world class LW and RW, get a better CM than Adam and bring it a prolific striker that keeps Carroll on the bench. They all have their good points. Adam's passing range, Downing is a pretty consistent winger, Carroll aerial ability, Johnson pace and ability to be direct, Kuyt's workrate.

But if they are all on the bench then our starting 11 hopefully has players like Hazard, A.Johnson, Hamsik, Lucas Moura, Falcao etc etc...
Did you just put Adam Johnson in the same category as Eden Hazard. Thats like me saying. "I hope West Ham bring in either Frazier Campbell or Wayne Rooney". Ridiculous comment.

Fact is without CL football no one in the world class category is going to join your team. You saw that with Juan Mata. You saw that with Phil Jones. You will be stuck to signing the calibre of players you currently are signing, especially when your unwilling to offer big wages (see Meireles).

You cant improve on your signings until you improve your table position and title credentials. ATM you dont look like doing this anytime soon. The longer you go without CL football, the poorer the quality of players available to you

I agree with most in saying that no CL football next year sees the back of Reina and Suarez. They wont stay around to float the sinking ship im afraid. You need instant success. The idea you can wait 4 years and build too it is laughable. This isnt the AFL. Players in soccer simply do not have that patience and loyalty

If you havnt learnt that by now you never will. Time to join us back in reality man. As much as it pains you to hear it. Downing is in your X1 for the next 3 years. Carroll will be sold for 8-10 mill or kept in the 11 for the long term future and Henderson is the future CM of the club. Unless FSG are Man City in disguise which is highly unlikely given they wouldnt pay Meireles a extra 40k a week on his pretty low wages. You say your no Man City but those players you mentioned are Man City calibre 30 mill + type signings. To get these players you would pretty much have to eclipse Man Citys spending which makes it even more unrealistic then it was to begin with really
 

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Coledinho

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Many of you might say that we werent expecting to win the league but wanted a return to the top 4 but it has never been harder than it is now to finish in the top 4. You have established clubs in Utd and Chelsea, moneybags City and despite Arsenals shortcomings, are still a force to be reckoned with. Then you have Spurs who have just gotten better and better and better.
Hypocritical BS this comment is btw. 6 weeks ago I was arguing with you that you were not title contenders. You said not only that you were but you had a stronger combined 11 then Man United. Massive backflip is massive
 

wrennyboy

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We have hit the woodwork 11 times this season the most out of any team, is this just bad luck or more a lack in a clinical finisher
 

Coledinho

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We have hit the woodwork 11 times this season the most out of any team, is this just bad luck or more a lack in a clinical finisher
West Ham hit the woodwork more then any other team last season. We also had the 4th most shots on goal. For us it was because we lacked a clinical finisher and for Liverpool I dont really think the definition should change. The players are the problem, not the situation
 

Coledinho

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Too much hysteria atm, it's only November and people are saying how the summer dealings will set us back 2 years?
Hysteria like Charlie Adam never playing for the club again? To be fair the hysteria IMO is pretty fair. The sooner you get back into the top 4 the better. The longer you wait the further you will fall. Thats just the way it is sadly enough
 

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Hysteria like Charlie Adam never playing for the club again?
Don't think anyone has said that, although with Embers search function you could find something vague. Big difference between people not wanting him to start atm and never playing for the club again.

People merely don't wanna see him in a midfield two with Lucas again, and certainly some of his defensive efforts leave a lot to be desired, if you're gonna do an Embers and extrapolate then go ahead
 

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Adam has a lot to offer, but not in a central midfield 2 IMO.

Leaves his partner with too much ground to cover, I don't think his attacking efforts are so good that you can justify the loss of defensive solidity that comes with it.

In the right team, and in a midfield 3 (either attacking or deep lying) I think he could be useful.
 

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Did you just put Adam Johnson in the same category as Eden Hazard. Thats like me saying. "I hope West Ham bring in either Frazier Campbell or Wayne Rooney". Ridiculous comment.

Fact is without CL football no one in the world class category is going to join your team. You saw that with Juan Mata. You saw that with Phil Jones. You will be stuck to signing the calibre of players you currently are signing, especially when your unwilling to offer big wages (see Meireles).

You cant improve on your signings until you improve your table position and title credentials. ATM you dont look like doing this anytime soon. The longer you go without CL football, the poorer the quality of players available to you

I agree with most in saying that no CL football next year sees the back of Reina and Suarez. They wont stay around to float the sinking ship im afraid. You need instant success. The idea you can wait 4 years and build too it is laughable. This isnt the AFL. Players in soccer simply do not have that patience and loyalty

If you havnt learnt that by now you never will. Time to join us back in reality man. As much as it pains you to hear it. Downing is in your X1 for the next 3 years. Carroll will be sold for 8-10 mill or kept in the 11 for the long term future and Henderson is the future CM of the club. Unless FSG are Man City in disguise which is highly unlikely given they wouldnt pay Meireles a extra 40k a week on his pretty low wages. You say your no Man City but those players you mentioned are Man City calibre 30 mill + type signings. To get these players you would pretty much have to eclipse Man Citys spending which makes it even more unrealistic then it was to begin with really
All I did was mention that Adam Johnson could be in our best 11 in the future if we bought him. I didnt say he was as good as Hazard or any such nonsense but again you just put words in my mouth.

I know you're just a West Chelsea supporter and all so you wouldnt understand this but even without CL football our club has quite a pull when it comes to luring top rated players. Yeah CL would certainly help but we are still Liverpool Football Club. I know you hate it when I say that, but it's the truth. Players want to play for our club.

What did we see with Mata and Jones anyways, the press reported we might be interested in both but I dont think we bid for either of them did we. Im happy with Coates anyway, I think he will be very good, Jones is a quality player though.

As for Suarez or Reina leaving, im not bothered, it was Torres before him, Owen, Fowler, players come and go, we will find others. I dont think either one of Suarez or Reina will leave in the near future though.

Of course signing all those players is unrealistic and I didnt say that we would sign them. It would cost way too much money to get them all, one or two would be nice though.
 

jod23

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Hypocritical BS this comment is btw. 6 weeks ago I was arguing with you that you were not title contenders. You said not only that you were but you had a stronger combined 11 then Man United. Massive backflip is massive
I still think our first 11 is just as good as United's. What United have that we dont is stone cold belief and a reverence built up over years of winning. Norwich, Swansea etc come to Anfield believing that just maybe they can get something. Literally half the division goes to OT thinking how much will we lose by.

That is built up over many, many years of dominance and kudo's to them for that. We used to have that in the 70's and 80's. But they are just far more consistent but on recent games between the two, we have outplayed them and been the better side.

Utd's central midfield is just horrible. The defence is leaky, fantastic attacking player though.
 

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Cooldude

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Thats your first problem right there.
That's a case of Hodgson syndrome

As soon as we stop demanding high standards, we'll fall so far down the pack it wouldn't be funny. Just look at what that expectation damping, bullshit talking owl did to us

Other clubs' supporters don't like it when we do it, but we don't really give a **** what they think.
 

moomba

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No problem with anyone demanding high standards. You need to be realistic about what can be achieved and when, and when it comes down to it there needs to be an understanding that even though you are Liverpool that gives you no more right to succeed than anyone else.
 

Coledinho

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I still think our first 11 is just as good as United's. What United have that we dont is stone cold belief and a reverence built up over years of winning. Norwich, Swansea etc come to Anfield believing that just maybe they can get something. Literally half the division goes to OT thinking how much will we lose by.

That is built up over many, many years of dominance and kudo's to them for that. We used to have that in the 70's and 80's. But they are just far more consistent but on recent games between the two, we have outplayed them and been the better side.

Utd's central midfield is just horrible. The defence is leaky, fantastic attacking player though.
Lucas and Adam is no CM wonder duo itself though. As much as you want to think it your first 11 is nowhere near as good as Uniteds. The difference between world class and very good is a big one.

I really do and have thought in the past Liverpool can sign CL quality players without CL football. Unfortunately with a tight wage structure now in place this isnt possible. You have to offer big wages to get the CL quality players to join a non-CL team. ATM your not doing this.

I just dont see Lucas Moura for example choosing Liverpool on 60k a week when Man City (last bidding rights on him) are offering a bigger fee to his club and offering the man 120k a week. If you matched the wages City are offering then he may choose Liverpool for more first team football but no man is going to half his wages to join Liverpool im afraid. Raul Meireles is living proof of that in the big picture. Could of easily stayed with Liverpool but chose to walk out the door for bigger money + CL football at the end
 

Cooldude

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No problem with anyone demanding high standards. You need to be realistic about what can be achieved and when, and when it comes down to it there needs to be an understanding that even though you are Liverpool that gives you no more right to succeed than anyone else.
That was exactly what Roy ****ing Hodgson said, so I think you've missed the point

Plus we're sorry that you think then, and yet again we don't care if you don't like it
 

apollo_creed

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All I did was mention that Adam Johnson could be in our best 11 in the future if we bought him. I didnt say he was as good as Hazard or any such nonsense but again you just put words in my mouth.

I know you're just a West Chelsea supporter and all so you wouldnt understand this but even without CL football our club has quite a pull when it comes to luring top rated players. Yeah CL would certainly help but we are still Liverpool Football Club. I know you hate it when I say that, but it's the truth. Players want to play for our club.

What did we see with Mata and Jones anyways, the press reported we might be interested in both but I dont think we bid for either of them did we. Im happy with Coates anyway, I think he will be very good, Jones is a quality player though.

As for Suarez or Reina leaving, im not bothered, it was Torres before him, Owen, Fowler, players come and go, we will find others. I dont think either one of Suarez or Reina will leave in the near future though.

Of course signing all those players is unrealistic and I didnt say that we would sign them. It would cost way too much money to get them all, one or two would be nice though.
do you really think Suarez will stay if you don't/continually don't make the CL?
not making it this season, and a big name CL club being interested will definitely test the waters. no denying that.
 

BlueBen

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To be honest, I'm surprised (but appreciative) that Reina hasn't already gone. He's one of the best keepers in the world, used to playing at the very top level for both club and country, yet he's stuck around through a Europa League campaign and a season of no European involvement at all. I hope he stays for the rest of his career, but I don't think anyone could begrudge him wanting to go if we missed out on the Champions League again...
 

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Think Reina's gone next season if we don't do CL this season. Suarez would stay for one more season if we're lucky if we don't qualify
 

moomba

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That was exactly what Roy ****ing Hodgson said, so I think you've missed the point

Plus we're sorry that you think then, and yet again we don't care if you don't like it
Not a matter of liking it or not liking it, I don't particularly care. I'm sure Hodgson doesn't care either, and while it was a bit naive to say what he said while he was in charge of the club he was absolutely 100% spot on.

IMO that mentality that all we have to do is go back to Liverpool values and you'll return to the top is a flawed one, that is holding the club back IMO.

You see the attitude in the press, on places like this where people expect Liverpool to do better than what they will do, simply because they are Liverpool. Half way through the season the penny drops, a bit of realism sets in and the flapping commences.
 

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Not a matter of liking it or not liking it, I don't particularly care. I'm sure Hodgson doesn't care either, and while it was a bit naive to say what he said while he was in charge of the club he was absolutely 100% spot on.

IMO that mentality that all we have to do is go back to Liverpool values and you'll return to the top is a flawed one, that is holding the club back IMO.

You see the attitude in the press, on places like this where people expect Liverpool to do better than what they will do, simply because they are Liverpool. Half way through the season the penny drops, a bit of realism sets in and the flapping commences.
Yes, because having a manager who was apparently "spot on" in your eyes had us out of contention for absolutely everything, and put us in the drop zone? Then I don't like the spot you're talking about

Then having Kenny who has the expectations that the fans want, and a season later we're 3 points from 4th and actually be in a position to talk about how to get back to the top. That's holding the club back big time
 

moomba

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Yes, because having a manager who was apparently "spot on" in your eyes had us out of contention for absolutely everything, and put us in the drop zone? Then I don't like the spot you're talking about
I would have thought it fairly obvious I was only talking about that particular issue, not his entire time at the club.

Then having Kenny who has the expectations that the fans want, and a season later we're 3 points from 4th and actually be in a position to talk about how to get back to the top. That's holding the club back big time
FWIW.

Hodgson - 31 matches, 13 wins, 9 draws, 9 losses
Dalglish - 37 matches, 19 wins, 9 draws, 9 losses

Considering Hodgson worked in the Hicks & Gillette era that most of you thought was holding the club back, and made a profit in the transfer market compared to Kenny who has worked under Henry and spent (at a guess) £50m nett in the transfer market those stats don't look too bad for Woy.

Kenny may have the expectations that the supporters want, but is he living up to them? A few of your lot seem to be having a few doubts about his ability to do so.
 

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So Kenny has 6 more wins? That's a lot in football terms, ya know. And anyone who's seen the football we've played under Kenny for the majority of his time here cannot possibly compare what he's done to the club to what the owl did, even before all the spending he did this summer. It's just statistical ***** gone mad

Besides, Hogdson's win loss stats are boosted why wins against no-marks in Europa group stages. This time last season he had us 19th. Any more comparisons and people's just gonna laugh at it

There will always be doubters unless you're winning the league, same people who've been laughing at Mancini for a season or two
 

moomba

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Anyone who thought that we should have been challenging for the league in the past two seasons is an idiot, I see Liverpool in a similar position that we were when Mancini took over and without the resources that we were lucky enough to have. A lot of the criticism Mancini got was based on ignorance, lack of football knowledge and a lack of understanding of exactly where City stood in terms of what we were capable of doing in the here and now, and what we were planning to do in the future.

For the same reasons I just don't understand anyone that thinks Liverpool should be mounting a challenge for the league title in the next few years. It's fanciful, and it's full of this notion that just because it's Liverpool they deserve to be challenging for top honours. At the moment, in order to achieve success Liverpool will have to do exactly what clubs like Spurs, Aston Villa, Everton etc are trying to do. Being Liverpool will count for absolutely nothing, and the longer Liverpool supporters cling onto this idea that success will come because "we are Liverpool" and we demand it, the longer you'll stay in the wilderness.

As for Hodgson v Dalglish, I'm not arguing that Dalglish isn't an improvement, he is in results and style of play. I'm not convinced it's all that big an improvement though, and I'm not sure he currently is meeting, or is capable of meeting the (unrealistic) expectations of a lot of Liverpool supporters. You only have to see the reactions of some supporters after recent results to know that questions are being asked when IMO, you're about where I would expect you to be.
 
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