The BigFooty Liverpool Army - Part 22

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Cooldude

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Insert Kenny instead of Mancini and there you have it

We'll just be looking to get into the CL again this season, not talking about anything beyond that. If you can't see us challenging for the title and not happy about it, then I'm sorry to upset you, then again, to try predicting what happens in football a couple of years down the track is a pretty silly thing to do

He's having us challenging the top 4 again, I would say from where we were last season with the former owners and the way the squad was dismantled by Purslow and made shit by the owl, he has done a remarkable job. People asking a few questions about his approach and setup of the team doesn't mean people want him out, or people think he's shit. Fergie gets tactics wrong all the time, their fans aren't happy about it as well, so I don't see where your point is
 

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moomba

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king to get into the CL again this season, not talking about anything beyond that. If you can't see us challenging for the title and not happy about it, then I'm sorry to upset you, then again, to try predicting what happens in football a couple of years down the track is a pretty silly thing to do
I'm just posting in a thread, I'm neither happy or unhappy about the state of affairs about Liverpool. I'm definitely not upset about anything going on in Liverpool, so you can put your mind at ease about that.

Predicting what can happen in a couple of years is not 100% reliable, but think that's what things like message boards are all about. Might even start a thread on it on the main board.
 

jod23

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Lucas and Adam is no CM wonder duo itself though. As much as you want to think it your first 11 is nowhere near as good as Uniteds. The difference between world class and very good is a big one.

I really do and have thought in the past Liverpool can sign CL quality players without CL football. Unfortunately with a tight wage structure now in place this isnt possible. You have to offer big wages to get the CL quality players to join a non-CL team. ATM your not doing this.

I just dont see Lucas Moura for example choosing Liverpool on 60k a week when Man City (last bidding rights on him) are offering a bigger fee to his club and offering the man 120k a week. If you matched the wages City are offering then he may choose Liverpool for more first team football but no man is going to half his wages to join Liverpool im afraid. Raul Meireles is living proof of that in the big picture. Could of easily stayed with Liverpool but chose to walk out the door for bigger money + CL football at the end
I did make that statement before Raul's departure though which did hit our CM stocks. I still think our CM players in Lucas, Adam, Gerrard, Henderson, Spearing and Shelvey is better that United's. I think our defence is better than Utd's and in goal. They destroy us in wide areas and up forward. But we have had the wood on them in recent times. As I said, they just have far more confidence and an air of invincibility that gets them 3 points in games before they have even started. Just my opinion though.

We do have to offer big wages to get players and although I dont know the players wages id say we only have one player on 100k+ wages at the club, that being Steven Gerrard. City's first 11 and half there reserve side is probably on 100k+ a week. It's going to be tough to match City and the other big sides going forward but I still believe were on the right track. From 18 months ago to now, we have taken huge strides forward. Long road though...
 

jod23

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do you really think Suarez will stay if you don't/continually don't make the CL?
not making it this season, and a big name CL club being interested will definitely test the waters. no denying that.
Why wouldnt he? I think people in forums and chat rooms and all that crap put waaaay too much importance on CL football. Players move to clubs for money, simple as that. Football is run with $$$ and they chase it. Man City signed a lot of great players before they were in the CL. We signed Suarez without offering CL football.

Obviously it's a deciding factor if say Utd, City and us are in for a player and were all offering similar wages then CL football could be a deciding factor. But their are a myriad of reasons why some players get signed by some clubs, look at VDV with Spurs, no CL football either, he went there. So just not being able to offer CL football isnt the be all and end all of the world. Obviously no European action is a disaster and this season we must at the very, very least, secure EL football. The aim is CL and of course it helps bringing players in but to suggest its all players care about is just naive.

Say for instance Spurs finish 4th this season and go after a player, were in for the same player. Spurs can offer 60k a week, we can offer 90k a week. Do you think the player takes a 30k a week pay cut to play CL. Nope... not in a million years.

The only way a player would play for less money at another club is if they have an affinity with the club. Like me and LFC. If i were a pro footballer and all the big clubs were knocking on my door. Id knock back 150k a week from Real Madrid or Man City to play on 80k a week at Liverpool.

Anyways, im rambling. Is it possible Suarez could leave, sure. Is it possible he stays, absolutely. Is that possible with almost any player at the club outside of Carragher and Gerrard. Absolutely. Is it the end of the world is Suarez leaves. No.

As ive said a million times before. I was gutted Fowler was pushed out the door. Owen rose to prominence. I was gutted Owen left for 8 million, couple of years later, Torres arrived. And I was distraught when Torres buggered off but in came Suarez.

Suarez is a fantastic little player and certainly a key player for us going forward and being successful, but is he the be all and end of LFC. No.
 

simba_

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No problem with anyone demanding high standards. You need to be realistic about what can be achieved and when, and when it comes down to it there needs to be an understanding that even though you are Liverpool that gives you no more right to succeed than anyone else.
you're a man city fan you wouldn't know the first thing about how a winning club s supporters think sorry that is so blunt but you're spreading bullshit all over the thread.
 

Coledinho

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When its all said and done I think Neymar will end up at Anzhi (unless he wants to turn down 300k a week and a chance to play alongside Eto and Hulk in a front 3) and Real Madrid will be made to look elsewhere for a striker. If you dont make CL football then id say Suarez would become the number 1 option. Real Madrid will have the money and lifestyle to lure Suarez over.

Im not saying Suarez is going to move from Liverpool to Arsenal or Chelsea. That idea is absurd. Im saying he is going to move to arguably the biggest club in world football.
 

moomba

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you're a man city fan you wouldn't know the first thing about how a winning club s supporters think sorry that is so blunt but you're spreading bullshit all over the thread.

You'd think Liverpool had won a dozen premier league titles they way some (repeat some) supporters go on. But what you're saying is that Liverpool supporters have no right to have an opinion on someone like Chelsea, Man United or Barcelona who have actually won titles in the last 20 years. Maybe we might even join that list of clubs that you're just not qualified to comment on.

If you don't like my opinion, thats fine, but it's got nothing to do with Man City and if you try not to be so defensive you might even see that there is some merit in what I have to say (even if you don't totally agree with it). And I'll always welcome adult discussion from someone that disagrees with my point of view.
 

kane249

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Sidestepping yet another shitfight and actually talking something club related, rumours are we are looking at getting in David Villa in January as he's apparantly had a falling out with Messi at Barca
 

moomba

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Why wouldnt he? I think people in forums and chat rooms and all that crap put waaaay too much importance on CL football. Players move to clubs for money, simple as that. Football is run with $$$ and they chase it. Man City signed a lot of great players before they were in the CL. We signed Suarez without offering CL football.
While money is obviously a factor, most players are looking to play for a club in the champions league. We got some players but that was because we were able to sell a realistic vision of being in the champions league in the very near future. Others didn't come because we weren't there already.

As far as Suarez goes, I think he'd probably stay another year without Champions League. Liverpool can legitimately sell their chances of getting back into the comp, but I think if they miss top 4 this season they'll be on their last chance with someone like Suarez. Reina, I could see leaving as he's been out of the comp for a couple of years now. But he seems pretty settled at the club so might be happy to see out the next couple of years just in domestic competition.
 

BlueBen

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Thread starter #1,861
Sidestepping yet another shitfight and actually talking something club related, rumours are we are looking at getting in David Villa in January as he's apparantly had a falling out with Messi at Barca
We're more chance of buying Aston Villa than David Villa.

I just don't get it. While I'd love to have him, I don't see why, in our current position, he would come to us...
 

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Zidane98

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Villa not really fitting the profile of a younger player with resale value.

Can't see it.
Totally agree. Could only imagine Henry sanctioning a Villa deal if we picked him up for a reasonably low transfer fee. Barcelona are probably looking to cash in on Villa before his value drops with age, perhaps Chelsea could be a possible destination with Atletico rumored to be bidding for Torres in January? I'm sure Roman would pay 25 million plus for Villa; Henry won't spend more then 10 million max on any player 30 or over no matter how good they are.
 

Zidane98

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As for Hodgson v Dalglish, I'm not arguing that Dalglish isn't an improvement, he is in results and style of play. I'm not convinced it's all that big an improvement though, and I'm not sure he currently is meeting, or is capable of meeting the (unrealistic) expectations of a lot of Liverpool supporters. You only have to see the reactions of some supporters after recent results to know that questions are being asked when IMO, you're about where I would expect you to be.

Perhaps you are right, we have a lot of new players in our team who are going to take more then one season to get it right. Having said that I feel that we have underperformed so far and we will improve markedly over the season. There's only been one game where we have been outplayed and that was Spurs, where we copped 2 red cards and were always going to be up against it. If our strikers had there finishing boots on we would be in the position that our squad deserves.
 

wrennyboy

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Kenny is threatening to play the youth team vs Chelsea in the league cup, as he is not happy with the time between the city game and the carling cup tie. Think its around 48 hours between games. I think we can manage,

VS City (PL)
Reina
Johnson Agger Skrtel Enrique
Kuyt Lucas Adam Downing
Carroll Suarez

VS Chelsea (CC)

Reina/Doni
Flanagan Kelly Coates Robinson
Maxi Spearing Henderson Aurelio
Kuyt Bellamy
 

simba_

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You'd think Liverpool had won a dozen premier league titles they way some (repeat some) supporters go on. But what you're saying is that Liverpool supporters have no right to have an opinion on someone like Chelsea, Man United or Barcelona who have actually won titles in the last 20 years. Maybe we might even join that list of clubs that you're just not qualified to comment on.

If you don't like my opinion, thats fine, but it's got nothing to do with Man City and if you try not to be so defensive you might even see that there is some merit in what I have to say (even if you don't totally agree with it). And I'll always welcome adult discussion from someone that disagrees with my point of view.
i don't know what you're trying to say, football is older than 20 years old. i never said anything about being qualified to talk about those clubs or anything like that. i think you're pretending that those clubs mean more because of what they've done in the past 20 years? lol

well you spoke about the "right to succeed" and how we "need to realistic about what we can achieve". what does that even mean? sit back as a collective and say "hey, guys. look. don't u think we might be newcastle mk II? maybe we should sing a bit less and be OK with a top ten spot? we aren't dominating anymore do you think we should maybe be OK with this and cheer on city and chelsea to top spots?"

i know what you are trying to say but the mentality of supporters isn't going to change because some guy thinks he is being level headed.. at man city u may be well used to "waiting your turn" at the big time but you're never gonna stop liverpool supporters believing they always have been the big time, that is what makes it liverpool fc. you talk like city is a big club and liverpool supporters aren't thinking correctly and need to learn their place. it's a joke imo!

as for villa, another joke, i hate transfer talk in november :\
 

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Just watched the England U/21 game against Iceland (Eng 5-0) and Kelly and Henderson starred!!

Great intercept and goal by Kelly, and Hendo set up another 2! They were probably best on field with arsenal's AOC.

Hopefully will be good for Henderson's confidence coming back to LFC.
 

Cooldude

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If you don't like my opinion, thats fine, but it's got nothing to do with Man City and if you try not to be so defensive you might even see that there is some merit in what I have to say (even if you don't totally agree with it). And I'll always welcome adult discussion from someone that disagrees with my point of view.
Lol, whatever "merit" you're trying to claim was all lost when you compared Roy ****ing Hodgson with Kenny. As much as you pump yourself up about your opinion, you've been making some shocking calls over the years as well
 

moomba

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i don't know what you're trying to say, football is older than 20 years old. i never said anything about being qualified to talk about those clubs or anything like that. i think you're pretending that those clubs mean more because of what they've done in the past 20 years? lol
Not sure what you're on about to be honest.

well you spoke about the "right to succeed" and how we "need to realistic about what we can achieve". what does that even mean? sit back as a collective and say "hey, guys. look. don't u think we might be newcastle mk II? maybe we should sing a bit less and be OK with a top ten spot? we aren't dominating anymore do you think we should maybe be OK with this and cheer on city and chelsea to top spots?"
When you beleive as a set of supporters that your club has a right to be successful (which a lot of Liverpool supporters undoubtedly do) you tend to get unrealistic expectations of what people are capable of achieving. It's why in pre-season many of you are talking about a title challenge, and a few months later many are questioning players, manager, and the club because that challenge hasn't eventuated. People need to realise that Liverpool getting to the top will be a slow process.

i know what you are trying to say but the mentality of supporters isn't going to change because some guy thinks he is being level headed.. at man city u may be well used to "waiting your turn" at the big time but you're never gonna stop liverpool supporters believing they always have been the big time, that is what makes it liverpool fc. you talk like city is a big club and liverpool supporters aren't thinking correctly and need to learn their place. it's a joke imo!
The only person talking about Man City here is you saying that a Man City supporter has no right to talk about winning teams. It has, and never has had anything to do with Man City.
 

moomba

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Lol, whatever "merit" you're trying to claim was all lost when you compared Roy ****ing Hodgson with Kenny. As much as you pump yourself up about your opinion, you've been making some shocking calls over the years as well
I know you've got a bit of a hard on for Roy and blaming him for all the problems in the world every couple of days. Not sure whats wrong with comparing a manager to his predecessor, thought that sort of thing would go on at every club (certainly does at mine). And while I've said on here that Dalglish is an improvement, the records show that it's not all that much of an improvement particularly given the circumstances that each worked under.

As for my "calls" on Liverpool, generally I've been spot on in the past.
 

Cooldude

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I know you've got a bit of a hard on for Roy and blaming him for all the problems in the world every couple of days. Not sure whats wrong with comparing a manager to his predecessor, thought that sort of thing would go on at every club (certainly does at mine). And while I've said on here that Dalglish is an improvement, the records show that it's not all that much of an improvement particularly given the circumstances that each worked under.

As for my "calls" on Liverpool, generally I've been spot on in the past.
You were trying to say that Kenny was not much better than Roy, that alone is a very very dumb thing to say. Anyone who just look at the records and make an opinion is just a statistical ****, even though he's entitled to such an opinion
 

moomba

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You were trying to say that Kenny was not much better than Roy, that alone is a very very dumb thing to say. Anyone who just look at the records and make an opinion is just a statistical ****, even though he's entitled to such an opinion
I was trying to say that his record was not that much better than Roy's, I was quite surprised when I saw the stats myself.


I've said that things have improved under Kenny, and I've said that Liverpool are doing about what I expected them to do. If you want to imagine anything beyond that, then thats up to you.
 

Kaan

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All comps.

In league it goes (just added it up from results so could be wrong).

Roy - played 20, 7 wins, 9 losses, 4 draws
Kenny - played 29, 15 wins, 7 losses, 7 draws
Just added it up myself and got the exact same stats as you.

If we played 9 more games under Roy I'd say we would've won 3, drawn 2 and lost 4, I think that's pretty realistic.

From 29 games:
Roy - 36 points
Kenny - 52 points

That's a 16 point difference... that's a huge improvement.
 
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