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jod23

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Ok so trying to stay positive.

First the money. The money only bothers me if say we had a 40 million budget and we just spunked 35 on Mane leaving us with **** all to buy anyone else. But considering we have grown hugely on the commercial side of things since FSG came in and the new TV deal is here, I dont think a club of our size is really gonna struggle for money.

Plus it's not my money. So the $$$ really doesnt matter in this case.

So let's talk about the player. Firstly from what I have read, Klopp has had his eye on Mane for years and there was some talk he had wanted him whilst back at Dortmund. So I definitely think he is Klopp's man and I'm inclined to trust the world class manager we have managing the club.

His stats are pretty good. In comparison to our other three main attacking midfielders they are pretty favourable. Here are the goals and assists numbers for each in all comps last season.

Mane - 15 & 6
Coutinho - 12 & 7
Firmino - 11 & 9
Lallana - 7 & 7

So people can whinge and say well he's not much of an upgrade. But he really is, particularly as we are upgrading on our weakest link which is Lallana.

Buying a player to take the place of Firmino or Coutinho would be very difficult as they are absolute top class. It's Lallana who he is coming in to replace and he scored more than DOUBLE the goals that Lallana managed last season.

It's more than goals and assists though, it's about the style of player Klopp wants. Klopp wants to press, win the ball high and attack. Mane presses, so does Lallana. But if the same two players press and win the ball high. Whilst Lallana is turning towards goal, I've read the newspaper, made a cuppa and the entire backline of the opposition team has gotten back.

If Mane presses high and wins the ball, i've blinked and Mane is bearing down on the opposition GK. He's absolutely rapid. Coming in he'd now easily be our quickest player.

We sorely lacked pace last season. Klopp knew this. Benteke, Coutinho, Firm, Lallana all lack top line pace. Sturridge used to have it but upon return has lost a step. It's a major reason why I think Klopp turned to Origi, because of his raw pace and we played so well with him stretching defenses and allowing the talented more technical players like Lallana, Phil and Bob to run into the spaces left behind and operate.

He's also quite technical and good on the ball. He ticks a lot of boxes for Klopp. Works hard, presses, has pace, has technical ability, can score goals. He's everything you want in an AM in a Klopp system.

We also have to remember that 1 in 3 is actually great for an AM. We're not buying a striker. We already have Sturridge, Ings, Origi, Tekkers if he stays and Firm can play up top too. We bought Mane to play as an AM not a striker so we surely cant moan about his 1 in 3 ratio.

If we lineup next season with Firmino, Coutinho and Mane in behind Sturridge. We'll score goals.

Also, I know Southampton finished above us last season but the gap was just three points and they won 5 of their last 6 to get over the line whilst we had all our eggs in the EL. Mane's raw numbers were better than any of our AM's and he was playing with blokes like Pelle, Long, Tadic, Davis... decent players sure, but I'd back him to get an ever better return playing with blokes like Phil and Bob and Sturridge etc.

It's not all positive of course, he does have consistency issues but you'd back Klopp in as the right man to sort those out. He's a world class coach, first, manager second. I'll back him to get Mane firing more regularly.

The other negative which even I've fallen victim of is Southampton fatigue. There are many issues here. Overpaying to Southampton is one, buying within the PL and England is another which immediately makes the transfer feel negative. Another reason is that all our dealing with Southampton havent been great.

Lambert was a huge fail even if it was a small deal and he was just bought as backup. Lovren was a disaster firstly and is only now changing minds. Lallana is a hugely polarising figure amongst supporters. Clyne is the only one that is a home run.

So I think that affects the reaction. If all the players we had bought from Southampton had been a raging success we'd be really happy to go back to the well. Plus in all honesty if Saido Mane put up those numbers and I saw the same highlights of him on YouTube but I was watching him playing at Schalke or Lyon or Valencia or Fiorentina or something, we'd honestly be rejoicing.

Ive fallen victim of this trap too. Ugh overpaying for more Southampton players. But taking a step back, this could actually be good.

End rant.
 
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wrennyboy

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With all the incoming players so far, I think we will break even thinning the squad to get our net spend to nearly 0.

Still quietly confident in getting 2 more Good signings once we have thinned the squad
 

ADL9798

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http://anfieldindex.com/23245/sadio-mane-man-balance-liverpool-attack.html

Sadio Mane has been the topic of much debate amongst Liverpool fans since news that the Reds were yet again set to raid Southampton became public knowledge. For all the positives surrounding the player and what he’d offer to the side fans, myself included, couldn’t overlook two things; he’s a Southampton player and the reported fee is £30 million.

To some those two reasons there are enough to completely shelve the idea. Their mind is made up and unless he turns into Lionel Messi there’s not much he can do to change their feelings towards him.

However, this time it’s not as black and white. You can’t escape the fact he’s a Southampton player but the fee isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. The new TV deal has created a monster. There’s no base for transfer fees anymore, it’s just chaotic and makes it hard for supporters to moan about fees when they literally have no idea if it’s good value for money or not. The new TV deal ruined moaning for us. To add some context here a £30 million player this Summer was £18 million back in 2013.

Would fans still be dead against signing Mane if he was costing £18 million? You don’t find many players going for that in the Premier League with the record he has – 21 league goals in open play and 9 assists in the last two seasons.

He’s by no means the perfect player, there’s plenty he can improve on, but he definitely ticks the boxes to be one of Klopp’s attacking midfielders if we’re to go off what he liked when he was managing Dortmund; he’s young enough to be moulded by him, he’s got an abundance of pace, he’s a goal threat, he’s clever both on and off the ball and, something Klopp seemingly values in a player, he puts in a shift defensively.

As many have highlighted Mane is Inconsistent. However, it’s the fact that he’s inconsistent which makes him attainable to Liverpool. Although his goal involvement seems impressive he does go months without a goal or an assist. If he reversed his form and managed to influence 20 odd games instead of the 10 he currently does then he’d be playing at your Bayern Munich’s. The fact he has the potential to be that sort of player should be enough for Liverpool fans to be intrigued and excited with the signing.

Those in favour of Mane highlight his goal involvement as a reason to sign him. The problem with this argument is that goals aren’t transferable. Just because a player has an impressive record at one club doesn’t mean they’ll be able to replicate it at another club (see Christian Benteke). You also have to consider that Mane played centrally for Southampton, will he be afforded such a luxury at Liverpool? If not then it’s naive to expect a similar goal return, that’s why a history of goals shouldn’t be given much credence. What’s vital is for the player’s strengths to align with the clubs style of player.

Going off Klopp’s Dortmund and Liverpool sides it’s clear to see he likes his attacking players to press and harass opponents with the intention of winning the ball back higher up the pitch and springing the counter attack while the opposition aren’t set up for it. They’re still in transition from defence to attack. Mane does just that. He played under Roger Schmidt at Red Bull Salzburg and if you’ve managed to watch his Leverkusen side now you’ll see they blitz teams. He brought that style with him from Salzburg and Mane is used to playing such a high pressing team. His final season in Austria saw Mane average 2.7 tackles per 90, almost unheard of for an attacking player.

It’s not an ideal way to look at attackers defensive work but more often than not looking at tackles won and interceptions often helps paint a picture of an attacker. Anything over 2 usually implies they’re hard working attackers. For Southampton Mane averaged 2.4 tackles and Interceptions per 90, so he does fit the style.

Although goal records aren’t transferable what it does highlight is if you play to his style he is a goal threat. He’s scored 72 goals in 185 appearances throughout his career. He definitely knows where the goal is and as Liverpool fans witnessed firsthand last season he can score a goal out of nothing. There’s a bit of a killer instinct in him and if Klopp can harness that then he could be onto a winner.

Balancing the attack
A criticism of the Liverpool attack last season was that it struggled against deep sitting teams. There was no dynamism there to unlock it and the game was played in front of the oppositions defence, much to their delight. Unless Divock Origi was playing there wasn’t any explosive pace in the attack or a player willing to get in behind the defence. It’s a stark contract to 13/14 when both Raheem Sterling and Daniel Sturridge offered such a threat.

Since returning from injury Sturridge has looked less likely to get in behind and more likely to drop deeper and link the play. Without his pace in behind Liverpool often look pedestrian in attack and desperately need pace. Mane offers than in abundance.

Alongside Sturridge, Roberto Firmino and Philippe Coutinho Liverpool would have an impressive, all rounded attacking quartet.



Mane’s starting position would be on the right of the three behind Sturridge. Even though he’s right footed he’s going to look to drift inside and he’s not really the sort of player to get chalk on his boots and rightly so, it would detract away from his game. He’s going to drift centrally to impact the game and get into goal scoring positions.

More often than not Mane would position himself inside the left-back but on the back of the left centre-back. That clever position coupled with his pace means he’d not look dangerous but a second later he’s baring down on the goalkeeper.



Liverpool have a versatile and interchangeable front four and it would be negligent not to make the most of that. Daniel Sturridge showed last season, like he has in the Euro’s for England, that he’s capable of being a creator. He has much more to his game than just being a finisher. Liverpool utilised that in 13/14 when he was dragging defenders into the channels and had Sterling and Luis Suarez exploiting it. Roberto Firmino and Adam Lallana tried it last season but without that pace it’s all a bit blunt at times.

If Sturridge dropped deep or drifted wide then both Firmino and Mane would look to fill that space and it’s a terrifying combination. Mane’s pace would pin defenders whereas Firmino’s clever movement would create space in and around the area. While these two have defenders engaged it gives Sturridge and Coutinho the opportunity to work their magic.

The width would come from the full-backs and it gives Liverpool the ability to overload either side with so many fluid players. Compact teams like structure, if their centre-backs don’t know who to follow it’s going to lead to spaces and they’ll end up making mistakes. That extra bit of pace adds another level to this Liverpool side.

It’s a tactic Klopp has used before. A quick player out wide who looks to drift in and become almost another striker at times when the actual striker drifts. It happened at Dortmund with Pierre Emerick Aubameyang. Many may read that quizzically but when he signed for BVB in 13/14 the Germans still had Robert Lewandowski. Aubameyang was seen more as a goal scoring threat from wide than he was a natural finisher at the time. Many of his goals during that season arrived after Lewandowski had dropped deep and he’d ran into the empty space behind. That season saw Lewandowski finish with 28 goals, Aubameyang with 16, Mkhitaryan with 13 and Marco Reus with 23. With the right players it works.

Could Klopp be looking to replicate that style with Daniel Sturridge, Philippe Coutinho, Roberto Firmino and Sadio Mane? Mane could be the signing that finally ignites the attack. Liverpool fans should be excited.
 

Cooldude

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I don't wanna suddenly call it a good signing, I'll reserve judgement until he played a few games (the ol' FM line)

Henderson's fitness can't be relied on though, if you sell Benteke Allen Skrt and the likes to fund both Mane and Zielinski, then I hope whatever was the transfer budget this summer goes to Dahoud if that's the one we really want and also a LB, then I think the business is done, unless Sakho's banned then buy or loan a CB
 

Venkman

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Still melting. 38 by some reports. That's ridiculous - should get two Mane's for that much. As good as he could be we've just paid massive overs - look at United getting Mkhitaryan for what high 20's ( I know contract running out etc.) Seems to be the cost of doing business as Liverpool at the moment.

But, oh well, that front half does look to have goals in it now and hopefully playing together after a full Klopp preseason they'll be pretty slick. I remember Carra saying when he was first analysing Klopp's style that opposition teams will not enjoy playing against Liverpool as they'll face pretty manic pressure coming out of the back half so hopefully that's what we'll see on a game by game basis now. Will be a fascinating year - think of the top teams Mou at Utd, Pep at City, Arsenal, Spuds - you'd take most (probs all) of their squads but we'll be bringing a different style to the comp.
 

Venkman

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I don't wanna suddenly call it a good signing, I'll reserve judgement until he played a few games (the ol' FM line)

Henderson's fitness can't be relied on though, if you sell Benteke Allen Skrt and the likes to fund both Mane and Zielinski, then I hope whatever was the transfer budget this summer goes to Dahoud if that's the one we really want and also a LB, then I think the business is done, unless Sakho's banned then buy or loan a CB
I think we'll be going cheap on the LB and that the play will be to throw everything at Dahoud (who is the profile of the players we should be after - high ceiling types, younger, not yet on the big clubs' radar) I wonder if we need a striker though - Sturridge goes down and its Origi. Ings is coming back from serious injury. If we can sell Tek and Ballo, Allen (who has some value now) I wonder if we can have a play at, say, Lacazette.
 

ADL9798

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I think we'll be going cheap on the LB and that the play will be to throw everything at Dahoud (who is the profile of the players we should be after - high ceiling types, younger, not yet on the big clubs' radar) I wonder if we need a striker though - Sturridge goes down and its Origi. Ings is coming back from serious injury. If we can sell Tek and Ballo, Allen (who has some value now) I wonder if we can have a play at, say, Lacazette.
Sturridge, Origi, Firmino, Ings, Mane all capable of scoring consistently while playing as strikers. I think we're pretty set in that department, arguably more so than any club in the league.
 

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LFC2010

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Looks like Batshauyi off to Crystal Palace for about 30mil pnd (38mil Euro),
Dat Premier League money sheeit. When Palace is willing to throw around just a smidge under Andy Carroll money for someone you know inflation has gotten ridiculous.
 

simba_

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maybe we're finally in a world where we'll get over what we paid for Joe Allen...

if mane does well for us i don't think we've done bad with southampton. how many clubs right now have more expensive and less superior centre halves to lovren? yes he was bad under BR but that's because he was under BR. every defender looked bad under him. lallana and clyne are great. sometimes i think about how the mancs paid 90 mil for di maria and luke shaw and we seem like a very sensible football club in comparison.
 
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FreoRicci

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Anyone been watching De Sciglio? Was impressive on the ball down the left wing last night for Italy against Spain. Played as a Left Wing back and definitely would be starting over Moreno.
 
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