The Bigfooty Official Week 12 thread (post new years hangover oh yeah why don't you come here and)

[YippeeYiYeo]

Secondly, he is asked to shoulder a large offensive burden because the Jazz do not boast many shot creators - he has carte blanche to shoot, because they desperately need him to.

rubbish.
Ingles is one of the best 3-pt shooters in the league. Gobert in the post is a beast. Favours and Rubio are no slouches either. Then off the bench Crowder can be decent. Exum is improving with every game, and we all know what Korvers shooting ability is like.

Truth is that Mitchell should be working hard as the pt guard to run plays and get these guys free looks, but instead hes turned into a ball hog this season trying to do it all himself. I reckon the fact he didnt win rookie of the year has got to him. Simmons didnt seem to care about it, yet Mitchell wore t-shirts and made comments in the media about how he was the real rookie. Now he's desperate to be the superstar of the team to prove a point and its hurting the Jazz. Getting just 3 assists in a game where 4 of his teammates score 14 points or more shows his selfishness.

 

[fidstar]

So yeah, he has been shooting poorly, and yeah he puts up some dubious shots. But the revisionism that he's nothing but a glorified chucker is poorly argued. It also seems to come from a lot of fans in Australia, which doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

I'm in the US and people here think he's a glorified chucker as well.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

rubbish.

O RLY?

Let's deconstruct these assertions of yours, shall we?

Ingles is one of the best 3-pt shooters in the league.

Cool. He's not really a shot creator though, is he? And how is Joe going to get those open 3 point looks that he's so good at? Through ball movement and people attacking the teeth of the defence.

Gobert in the post is a beast.

Clearly do you not only watch much Jazz basketball, but I'm beginning to doubt if you watch much basketball, period.

The number of 'post beasts' in the NBA has dwindled to a number so few that you could count them on one hand. And here's a tip for you: Gobert is not one of them.

A defensive behemoth, yes. A great screen setter and rim-runner, absolutely. But a beast in the post? Surely you jest. Gobert's next post move will be his first.

Favours and Rubio are no slouches either. Then off the bench Crowder can be decent. Exum is improving with every game, and we all know what Korvers shooting ability is like.

Rubio is good in transition, and good at getting a team into their offence. A consistent source of shot creation though? I think not.

Crowder and Korver are role players, just like Ingles. Exum is a back-up point guard, still finding his way. Decent players all, but they still need a straw to stir the drink.

Utah's problem is that they cannot find a decent balance between offence and defence. They often play with two big guys (Gobert & Favors), an increasingly rare thing in the league. Their point guard is a career sub 40% shooter. Their back up point guard is also a below average shooter. Their two best outside shooters - Korver and Ingles - probably cannot be played together much lest they be exploited defensively and on the boards. And they have only one guy who can consistently get his own shot off the dribble - Mitchell.

If you surround Mitchell with shooters, the team's offensive rating would surge but their defensive rating would plummet. What they really need is another scorer to take the burden off Mitchell. In the short term they probably could commit to playing smaller, with Crowder starting instead of Favors. It might help their spacing, and in turn Mitchell.

Truth is that Mitchell should be working hard as the pt guard to run plays and get these guys free looks, but instead hes turned into a ball hog this season trying to do it all himself.

'Uh, you realise Mitchell is not a point guard, right?

If you're going to come in off the long run-up spouting 'rubbish', you might want to check your facts first.

I reckon the fact he didnt win rookie of the year has got to him. Simmons didnt seem to care about it, yet Mitchell wore t-shirts and made comments in the media about how he was the real rookie. Now he's desperate to be the superstar of the team to prove a point and its hurting the Jazz. Getting just 3 assists in a game where 4 of his teammates score 14 points or more shows his selfishness.

Ugh, and this is exactly what I was talking about. This kind of s**t belongs in Women's Day, not on a basketball board.

Second year blues are a thing. Utah's unorthodox roster build is a thing. You might want to start there when attempting to analyse Mitchell's game, as opposed to creating your own narrative and running wild with it.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I'm in the US and people here think he's a glorified chucker as well.

I must have blinked and missed the 'glorified' part. So far he has won no awards, and plays in one of the smallest media markets in the country.

Like all young players, hype and deflation inevitably occur in cycle. Ben Simmons and Jayson Tatum are getting their share of criticism too. It usually levels out.

Is he the next Jordan? Nope. Is he even the next Wade? Probably not. But it's pretty unlikely he's the next Wiggins either.

 

[fidstar]

I must have blinked and missed the 'glorified' part. So far he has won no awards, and plays in one of the smallest media markets in the country.

Like all young players, hype and deflation inevitably occur in cycle. Ben Simmons and Jayson Tatum are getting their share of criticism too. It usually levels out.

Is he the next Jordan? Nope. Is he even the next Wade? Probably not. But it's pretty unlikely he's the next Wiggins either.

He was pretty "glorified" after last years playoffs. He's receiving s**t this year because his shooting numbers are terrible for a guy that is known to be a scorer.

I'm not sure about the small market thing any more either. It doesn't have the same impact as it used to.

Also, I wouldn't be shocked if he ended up being another Wiggins.

His shooting numbers over his first two seasons are worse than Wiggins.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Ummm, no they’re not.

Wiggins - rookie year .454 eFG%
Wiggins - Year 2 .481 eFG%
Career - .474 eFG%

Mitchell - rookie year .506 eFG%
Mitchell - Year 2 .460 eFG%
Career - .491 eFG%

To say that Mitchell’s shooting numbers are worse than Wiggins’ over his first two seasons is simply wrong.

 

[Dez!]

whats happened to D Mitchell of the Utah Jazz????? Seems to be s**t these days

He was actually always a chucker but nobody said anything because he was a rookie.

 

[fidstar]

Ummm, no they’re not.

Wiggins - rookie year .454 eFG%
Wiggins - Year 2 .481 eFG%
Career - .474 eFG%

Mitchell - rookie year .506 eFG%
Mitchell - Year 2 .460 eFG%
Career - .491 eFG%

To say that Mitchell’s shooting numbers are worse than Wiggins’ over his first two seasons is simply wrong.

Well, the original discussion was using TS%, so I continued in that vein...

Wiggens first two years - 53.1%
Mitchell to date - 52.8%

So, it's not "simply wrong".

 

[fidstar]

fwiw I think Mitchell will be better than Wiggins, but he's much more likely to be another Wiggins over Wade.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

If the continuum is between Wiggins and Wade, the likelihood is he'll be closer to Wade's end.

It's his 2nd year; he'll be fine. But nobody is worried about Favors or Rubio. Gobert is only useful as a roll threat. Ingles can create off hard close outs, but that's not his game. He's ok in the pick and roll.

Im looking at some lineup stats. A lot of the Jazz's best lineups involve Kyle Korver.

 

[fidstar]

If the continuum is between Wiggins and Wade, the likelihood is he'll be closer to Wade's end.

Don't see it myself. Wade's the 3rd (?) best shooting guard of all time. I put Mitchell at less than 5% of being Wade or better (probably around 2%). But I put him at 20% to be Wiggins or worse.

Definitely closer to the Wiggins end.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Don't see it myself. Wade's the 3rd (?) best shooting guard of all time. I put Mitchell at less than 5% of being Wade or better (probably around 2%). But I put him at 20% to be Wiggins or worse.

Definitely closer to the Wiggins end.

I agree with you about the Wade probability, but I see no chance he ends up like Wiggins. To be more specific, I think Mitchel will make 3-4 All star teams, and might top out with an All NBA 3rd team selection or 2.

Wiggins doesn't get near that.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Im just ******* around on basketball reference.

Through about 55 possessions (24 minutes of game time), the line up of Green, Klay, Steph, KD and McKinnie is outscoring teams by 64 points per 100 possessions.

Sub Iguoadala in for McKinnie and that line up (their 'death' lineup) is being outscored by about 15 points per 100 possessions.

It's because Iguodala sucks now, right?

No. He's part of the 2nd and 3rd best line up.

What's my point? I have none.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Well, the original discussion was using TS%, so I continued in that vein...

Wiggens first two years - 53.1%
Mitchell to date - 52.8%

So, it's not "simply wrong".

It is, because it factors in free throws. Mitchell is a better free throw shooter but gets there less often, so eFG% would is better metric for mine.

For the 2016-17 NBA season, Westbrook was 824-1941 (0.425) with 200-583 (.343) for three’s and 710-840 (.845) from the foul line. This resulted in an eFG% of 0.476. Since Westbrook’s FT% was higher than his eFG%, any extra free throw attempts would drive up Westbrook’s TS%.
In this case, Westbrook’s TS% should be 53.51%. However, since free throws are counted with that extra third term above and Westbrook has a higher FT% than eFG%, then Westbrook finishes with an extra 1.84%. This leads to Westbrook having a TS% of 55.35%.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

The Hornets just aren't very good. I thought they'd be top 4.

 

[fidstar]

It is, because it factors in free throws. Mitchell is a better free throw shooter but gets there less often, so eFG% would is better metric for mine.

For the 2016-17 NBA season, Westbrook was 824-1941 (0.425) with 200-583 (.343) for three’s and 710-840 (.845) from the foul line. This resulted in an eFG% of 0.476. Since Westbrook’s FT% was higher than his eFG%, any extra free throw attempts would drive up Westbrook’s TS%.
In this case, Westbrook’s TS% should be 53.51%. However, since free throws are counted with that extra third term above and Westbrook has a higher FT% than eFG%, then Westbrook finishes with an extra 1.84%. This leads to Westbrook having a TS% of 55.35%.

I was just using the metrics that the conversation was using.

It doesn't really matter. He's better on your metric and worse on mine. It;s fair to say they are pretty close.

 

[fidstar]

wow at Hornets result.

At home as well.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

wow at Hornets result.

At home as well.

It's been a souless game. We hit 10 3s in the first Q, and they haven't given a yelp.

 

[larrikin]

So, when's Simmons getting traded?

 

[fidstar]

It's been a souless game. We hit 10 3s in the first Q, and they haven't given a yelp.

You had more points in the first quarter than they had in the first half.

They had one more point in the second half than you had in the first quarter.

So bad....

 

[fidstar]

Also forgot how horribad the Mavs are on the road. Makes it even worse.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Good for Hayward.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

And does anyone know if KAT is not in peak shape? Has he ever been?

 

[fidstar]

Hayward goes 14-18 (4-7 on 3s) for 35 points and is still -7 for the game. The other 16 minutes of the game Boston is +20.

Work that out...

 

[Dez!]

Boylen is a moron.

He actually had Justin Holiday playing the 5 while Wendell sat on the bench.

Zion here we come.