The Blues have an opportunity to build a new game plan based on their 3 tall ruckman.

HARKER

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#26
Just for the sake of the argument.

If we're not going to play the three talls, how do we think it will work?
With Warnock being our number one tap ruck man, Kreuzer being Kreuzer, what was the value in signing Hampson on for three years?
If we were for whatever reason considering trading Warnock next year, why would have we not put him up now?

So, if we aren't going to play the three talls what is the plan and if Hampson wasn't going to be part of the action next year, what did we sell to him?
 

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Sublime

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#27
Just for the sake of the argument.

If we're not going to play the three talls, how do we think it will work?
With Warnock being our number one tap ruck man, Kreuzer being Kreuzer, what was the value in signing Hampson on for three years?
If we were for whatever reason considering trading Warnock next year, why would have we not put him up now?

So, if we aren't going to play the three talls what is the plan and if Hampson wasn't going to be part of the action next year, what did we sell to him?
Maybe the club plan on him being a permanent FF next year, and do indeed plan to try the 3 talls thing. I think its a mistake having (for example Kruz & Hammer) 2 'rucks' in our forward line at the same time. The hard part would be the rotations.

If you can minimise the amount of time all 3 are on the park at the same time, i think you can maximise the potential of this working. Working the 3 talls in would be a very delicate measure i think. How it would ultimately work, i honestly have no idea, but that's why we pay the coaches big bucks to do this.

The idea of having 3 x 200cm + players running around is exciting to me, and to be honest i hope we can work out how to use them all.

Maybe Hammer is just comfortable at the Blues and is happy with his role. Perhaps he was on the end of a big promise from Ratts for the upcoming season. All stuff that we probably won't know till preseason cup / Round 1 next year. But it sure is fun to guess.
 

HARKER

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#28
That's the thing, isn't it?
No one really knows what the intentions are.
Again, I hope that there aren't any serious and long term issues with Kreuzer's foot.
 

Sublime

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#29
To be honest, if i had to choose between being too tall or too short, i'd probably err on the shorter side with the speed the game is played at today. Especially with the midfield being our strength. But again... that extra tall can break the game open...
 

40yearBLUE

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#30
Just for the sake of the argument.

If we're not going to play the three talls, how do we think it will work?
With Warnock being our number one tap ruck man, Kreuzer being Kreuzer, what was the value in signing Hampson on for three years?
If we were for whatever reason considering trading Warnock next year, why would have we not put him up now?

So, if we aren't going to play the three talls what is the plan and if Hampson wasn't going to be part of the action next year, what did we sell to him?
Shirley you cant be serious?

All 3 would be sold on the idea that if they work hard they are part of our best 22 and that would be true.

What would also be true is that whilst you never say never, there isnt really much chance any team will go in with a 3 ruck plan. One is going to miss out.

And just to round out the trilogy, no club would ever be satisfied to have 2 good rucks and no back ups. In fact you probably need at least 2 back ups because rucks have a nasty habit of copping injuries.

But hey its a great yarn so keep going at it fellas. :rolleyes:
 

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#31
Unless one can be an elite fwd and the second a solid fwd we will only play one or max two.

Thought we played our best footy with just 206 in the side.
All three need to step up a cog, I feel. .. or at least two of them. ..

Kreuzer with a full pre-season is our best hope for improvement

Warnock bulking up a little and improving his marking is what I am hoping

Hammer is really the X factor here. .. if he starts consistently taking grabs and can increase his kicking accuracy then it really puts pressure on Warnock to improve, especially if Kreuzer gets fully fit and confident again. ..
 

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#32
Shirley you cant be serious?

All 3 would be sold on the idea that if they work hard they are part of our best 22 and that would be true.

What would also be true is that whilst you never say never, there isnt really much chance any team will go in with a 3 ruck plan. One is going to miss out.

And just to round out the trilogy, no club would ever be satisfied to have 2 good rucks and no back ups. In fact you probably need at least 2 back ups because rucks have a nasty habit of copping injuries.

But hey its a great yarn so keep going at it fellas. :rolleyes:

When a player believes he is good enough to be a regular first 22 player, they want to be part of that action. Easy enough to understand.

Hampson has every reason to believe himself as a first 22 player and there must have been something more on the table than just a three year deal.
There would have been dialogue in respect to his future and discussion about his role going forward. Again easy enough to understand.
I don't think there would have been a contract dropped with just a "Let's see how things go, mate" comment, whilst the pen was being handed over.

If Hampson is indeed being groomed as our forward target, why can't the three co-exist?
If we were talking Tippett instead of Hampson there would be no discussion.

As I said, just for the sake of the argument.
 

40yearBLUE

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#33
Playing Hamster as a forward is not what we are discussing. It is playing a 3 ruck rotation in games. Aint gonna happen.

Hammer or Kruze may well play a forward role next year and we still take 2 "other" rucks into the same game. And that forward may also contest a boundary throw in here and there.

Not that it has any direct relevance given the game has changed so much but I vaguely recall Salmon playing FF while Madden and Somerville played ruck at Ess, in fact Harry joined us because he felt 4th in line iirc.

Not the same as playing 3 rucks though is it. Its was a dumb bombers experiment started by Knights and continued by Hird that failed miserably. I doubt we will see it ever raise its ugly spectre again anywhere.
 

HARKER

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#34
Playing Hamster as a forward is not what we are discussing. It is playing a 3 ruck rotation in games. Aint gonna happen.
I see.
Hampson was touted as being developed as a forward, from next year on.
Has had laser eye surgery and is being fitted with a glue-glove as we speak. :)

3 ruckmen? Of course not. Two stand alone ruckmen is topping it out at the moment.
 

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#35
I see.
Hampson was touted as being developed as a forward, from next year on.
Has had laser eye surgery and is being fitted with a glue-glove as we speak. :)

3 ruckmen? Of course not. Two stand alone ruckmen is topping it out at the moment.
Kruze to get more time on the ball for mine, with Robbie and Hammer our rucks. Turn Kruze into the biggest midfileder the game has seen.
 

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#36
sub option is there, and with 3 it would avoid doing a sydney-seaby. but if you've got to sub someone out who isn't a ruckmen you're up shit creek.
 

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#37
There is a little country team down the highway who seem to have worked out how to use their big men

Look outside the box, you say?

OK then...how about Hampson to CHB?
That should have been tried with Carlos years ago

All three in the one team? :confused:
With the 3 man bench we struggle to rotate 2 rucks, let alone 3.

None of
Hampson, Kreuzer or Warnock have shown any nous to play anywhere but ruck with stints as a tall forward target.
This is pretty much true. It would be very nice if one developed further as a forward. (They are all AFL average or better as resting ruckmen down forward)

Just for the sake of the argument.

If we're not going to play the three talls, how do we think it will work?
With Warnock being our number one tap ruck man, Kreuzer being Kreuzer, what was the value in signing Hampson on for three years?
If we were for whatever reason considering trading Warnock next year, why would have we not put him up now?

So, if we aren't going to play the three talls what is the plan and if Hampson wasn't going to be part of the action next year, what did we sell to him?
We probably sold him bs, as 40yo said, every team needs 3 ruckmen as you must have 2 and the 3rd is insurance against injury. You also have to have a 4th in the pipeline (be developing or have a draft prospect) for if all 3 are any good and stay fit for a whole season one is going to want to move on.
 

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#39
If there's going to be 3 ruckmen means one is going to be a forward as you can't use the bench with the sub rule. Pity Hampson isn't a forward's backside. We seen him flop so many times there. He's a 1st ruck, a good one, but certainly no forward. Even Kreuzer is no KP forward. Way more dangerous when resting forward though than Hampson as he can take a mark, and requires a player to mark him. KP forward is a skill on it own and not easily trained. We all have our skills in different areas. Hampson's is rucking, not playing forward. Thornton's a way better prospect playing KP forward than Hampson. Can do everything there Hampson can't playing there. EF showed that and he was noi slouch playing there during the season.

Warnock rucks, Kreuzer 2nd ruck, resting forward with Waite and Thornton in the KP. Thornton may even be lucky enough to cop the 3rd defender in that grouping.

Walker/Gibbs Thornton Garlett
Kreuzer Waite Betts

Hampson will find himself 3rd in line of our ruckmen and spend Bullants time unfortunately. Would be a very good first ruck at some other clubs.
 

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#42
Shirley you cant be serious?

All 3 would be sold on the idea that if they work hard they are part of our best 22 and that would be true.

What would also be true is that whilst you never say never, there isnt really much chance any team will go in with a 3 ruck plan. One is going to miss out.

And just to round out the trilogy, no club would ever be satisfied to have 2 good rucks and no back ups. In fact you probably need at least 2 back ups because rucks have a nasty habit of copping injuries.

But hey its a great yarn so keep going at it fellas. :rolleyes:
Any reason you need to respond in such a patronising, know it all tone continually? We're just throwing up different situations.
 

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#46
Guys lets just wake up.

Unless one of these 3 rucks can turn into a high quality forward ie., atleast 45 goals per season then their is zero chance we will play 3 of them.

Furthermore if one of them can't atleast become a 30 goal fwd then I would prefer we play one and a mobile pinch hitter as the second.

Every chance that unless Kruz improves on 2011 he may not be in our best 22, my strong preference is the one prime ruckman plus a pinch hitter.

Nothing worse than an ineffective 2nd ruckman clogging up the fwd line and not chasing.
 
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#48
I don't know....I have a bad feeling about Kreuze's 'mystery foot injury'.

I am just predicting it will hamper him further and it will be Hampson and Warnock that are left to fight it out for a while.
 

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Moderator #49
Guys lets just wake up.

Unless one of these 3 rucks can turn into a high quality forward ie., atleast 45 goals per season then their is zero chance we will play 3 of them.

Furthermore if one of them can't atleast become a 30 goal fwd then I would prefer we play one and a mobile pinch hitter as the second.

Every chance that unless Kruz improves on 2011 he may not be in our best 22, my strong preference is the one prime ruckman plus a pinch hitter.

Nothing worse than an ineffective 2nd ruckman clogging up the fwd line and not chasing.
Ok lets play stats here.

Jarad Waite Goals in 2011: 16
Matthew Kreuzer Goals in 2011: 7
Brett Thornton Goals in 2011: 13
Setanta Ohailpan Goals in 2011: 11

Total: 47 goals in 2011

Andrew Walker: 56
Eddie Betts: 50
Jeffrey Garlett: 48



I dispute your notion that at least one of the rucks has to be a 45 goal a year forward, when we have THREE. COUNT THEM PEOPLE - THREE small - medium forwards already delivering that capability. A feat never before done in the AFL. yeah I think we can handle hammer running around up forward.
 

Claypigeon

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#50
To top heavy... imagine Swanny and Pendalbury running rampant on kruz.
Could play a wing and not have that issue. .. Plus imagine Kreuzer going third man up in a marking or ruck contest. .. Its not totally ridiculous. ..



What some are not possibly thinking about is. .. What if Warnock doesn't continue to develop? We needed to keep Hampson on the list and if that involves trying him as a Forward then why not, he'll develop in the VFL and perhaps get an AFL game but if it works, great. .. If not, we still have a great No. 1 ruck prospect in Hammer pushing Warnock to continue to improve while Kreuzer continues to develop. ..

For that reason alone I wouldn't be against seeing Ratts experiment, early season with all three in the side, it wont be long term though. ..
 
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