Strategy The Board of Directors: Operation Ruthless

[The Warlord]

IMO this would be about the perfect set up.

Mitchell is the next Adam Simpson of the coaching world.
McCartney is a North man with excellent credentials.
Shaw is taking the big chair and will be able to hold the role of senior assistant from there.

I'd just about clear the deck of most others.

Our phase of building right now is critical for the medium to long term of the club.

We have to get this right.

Completely agree.

I have a feeling that this Friday night will give us a very good indication of what we face.

If we're flat and down and get belted, OK, we're going to need a pretty serious rethink.

But, if as I suspect, we can come out breathing fire, and even if we don't win, run it very close, then boom, things are looking right up.

I genuinely believe that we've had the "big draft" that any club rebuilding/resetting needs to have - Thomas, Scott and Taylor.

Three blokes who will all end up top 20 in a few years when they post the "Redo the 2018 draft thread".

 

[Sideburns Ahern]

I honestly reckon the big appointment is not the next coach but the next GM of football.

Jason McCartney and Sam Mitchell would be ideal for me. Keep Rhys Shaw as a senior assistant.

Yeah this. Get the GM right is critical. Brad Scott may have even become a premiership coach if he had the best GM overseeing him.

 

[Only Forwards]

Completely agree.

I have a feeling that this Friday night will give us a very good indication of what we face.

If we're flat and down and get belted, OK, we're going to need a pretty serious rethink.

But, if as I suspect, we can come out breathing fire, and even if we don't win, run it very close, then boom, things are looking right up.

I genuinely believe that we've had the "big draft" that any club rebuilding/resetting needs to have - Thomas, Scott and Taylor.

Three blokes who will all end up top 20 in a few years when they post the "Redo the 2018 draft thread".

Listening to media and even the reading some stuff on here would have you thinking we're devoid of talent.

We are not.

Infact we've been fielding one of the oldest sides week in week out. We don't even know what we have nor what they are capable of.

Roll on the end of this year we're about to learn a whole lot about the club from Buckley to the boot studder.

 

[Quintero]

you're basing this all off the assumption of a 4-5 year rebuild works when it doesn't.

Hawthorn had one VERY good draft well over a decade ago, since then they've had a balance of older players and youth. WCE also have always had a mix. Collingwood is a terrible example for your argument, they haven't been bottom 4 since their last flag and have been topping up with older players for years.

i'm looking at melbourne, carlton, GCS and saints because they're example of the rebuild theory you're putting forward, a full blown, bottom-out and trade out anyone over 25 rebuild. it simply doesn't work.

you're also basing this off the assumption our list is not good enough. it's not a list issue, it's been a coaching and/or administration issue. you only have to look at the last 3 teams who've won flags - they were each an absolute shambles the year before (and early during the year) they won flags.

Remind me, where did I say trade everyone over 25? Where did I say it guarantees success? Don't be disengenuous. It's a strategy that differs from the same old stupidity we've always be known to favour. Let senior blokes rot until they have no value and then replace them with pick 100. That doesn't work, absolutely guaranteed. And the only thing that is actually guaranteed.

I said Hawthorn benefitted from taking their medicine, as did Collingwood in 2005 whose success was built from attaining Pendles and Thomas in one draft as did West Coast when they got access to Gaff and Nic Nat despite never being a terrible team. Winning meaningless games that get you to 10th is not going to help us in the long run.

I suggested that Brown has value and is not that good that we could turn down two x top 10 picks if that offer were to come.

Just to reiterate; Goldstein, Dumont, Macmillan, Tyson and Turner would be the ones I'd trade, and I doubt we'd be much worse if that eventuates.

We need to be bold, we need to be different. And I hope we try. You and I both know our list is in much better shape than both St.Kilda and Carlton so not sure why you continue to compare their result to the result that we could have.

If we don't end up with Anderson or Rowell, all this heartache will have been for nothing.

Ask yourself what would a successful ruthless club do? What would Clarkson do if he accepted our offer?

 

[tazaa]

I honestly reckon the big appointment is not the next coach but the next GM of football.

Jason McCartney and Sam Mitchell would be ideal for me. Keep Rhys Shaw as a senior assistant.

Which gets announced first though?
There is a vacancy with Brad leaving. Is it possible Joyce’s will be moved on before a coach is selected?

You raise a good point that whoever we appont next as coach will want to know who the GM of football is and also whether they can work well/soundly and coexist together.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Just to reiterate; Goldstein, Dumont, Macmillan, Tyson and Turner would be the ones I'd trade, and I doubt we'd be much worse if that eventuates.

Dumont is the only one of those that would net us anything, and even he would be an early to mid second at best.

 

[The Warlord]

Remind me, where did I say trade everyone over 25? Where did I say it guarantees success? Don't be disengenuous. It's a strategy that differs from the same old stupidity we've always be known to favour. Let senior blokes rot until they have no value and then replace them with pick 100. That doesn't work, absolutely guaranteed. And the only thing that is actually guaranteed.

I said Hawthorn benefitted from taking their medicine, as did Collingwood in 2005 whose success was built from attaining Pendles and Thomas in one draft as did West Coast when they got access to Gaff and Nic Nat despite never being a terrible team. Winning meaningless games that get you to 10th is not going to help us in the long run.

I suggested that Brown has value and is not that good that we could turn down two x top 10 picks if that offer were to come.

Just to reiterate; Goldstein, Dumont, Macmillan, Tyson and Turner would be the ones I'd trade, and I doubt we'd be much worse if that eventuates.

We need to be bold, we need to be different. And I hope we try. You and I both know our list is in much better shape than both St.Kilda and Carlton so not sure why you continue to compare their result to the result that we could have.

If we don't end up with Anderson or Rowell, all this heartache will have been for nothing.

Ask yourself what would a successful ruthless club do? What would Clarkson do if he accepted our offer?

What Tarryn Thomas is better than either Anderson or Rowell?

 

[Only Forwards]

Which gets announced first though?
There is a vacancy with Brad leaving?
Is it possible Joyce’s will be moved on before a coach is selected?

You raise a good point that whoever we appont next as coach will want to know who the GM of football is and also whether they can work well/soundly and coexist together.

Then enough half measures, move on Joyce now too.

 

[tazaa]

Then enough half measures, move on Joyce now too.

The more you think about it the more it needs to be done.
Which is why we are a while away from finding a coach as this review is being conducted. Only then will Joyce’s go.
Not only him but also the deadwood in Crocker, Tudor and Moore.
If we are going to get the best than naturally they’ll want to bring their own men. I can’t see how any will be retained.

 

[Devington]

I honestly reckon the big appointment is not the next coach but the next GM of football.

I maintain one of the reasons the internal workings of the club have been so perverted is that the power balance was horribly out of whack for several years. Brad simply had too much power. The GM of football needs to be someone experienced and firm. They don't just need to be able to guide/counter the coach, but probably rewire half the staff members we keep on.

 

[Billy Not Really]

There's no way I can see Brad going elsewhere without Joyce following suit, its only a matter of time.

 

[Only Forwards]

There's no way I can see Brad going elsewhere without Joyce following suit, its only a matter of time.

He can take Macmillan with him for a second rounder.

 

[The Butcher]

Can someone inform me why the spruiking of J McCartney? Seemed to me to be the epitome of effort over nous, with expetion of very specific afl quality big defender smarts. If i recal reading his book correctly, at the time of writing he would have agreed.

 

[Quintero]

What Tarryn Thomas is better than either Anderson or Rowell?

I know... I wouldn't swap Thomas for Rozee.

Dumont is the only one of those that would net us anything, and even he would be an early to mid second at best.

Goldy could net us a second for being Free Agent being paid 3*$650k+ Which would be early 20's if we tank hard.
Ditto Macmillan who might wish to follow Brad, Brad will no doubt leave nothing to chance and we could get another 2nd. Tyson and Turner just 4th/5th picks, but not having them on the list available for selection would be good enough for me.

Then it's about packaging and seeing what low hanging fruit falls out of the tree, surely there are teams requiring points ala us last year re: academies.

 

[The Warlord]

I maintain one of the reasons the internal workings of the club have been so perverted is that the power balance was horribly out of whack for several years. Brad simply had too much power. The GM of football needs to be someone experienced and firm. They don't just need to be able to guide/counter the coach, but probably rewire half the staff members we keep on.

Completely agree. GM of footy signs off on coaches calls, or not.

Coach is not be all and end all.

 

[DesertRoo]

Completely agree.

I have a feeling that this Friday night will give us a very good indication of what we face.

If we're flat and down and get belted, OK, we're going to need a pretty serious rethink.

But, if as I suspect, we can come out breathing fire, and even if we don't win, run it very close, then boom, things are looking right up.

I genuinely believe that we've had the "big draft" that any club rebuilding/resetting needs to have - Thomas, Scott and Taylor.

Three blokes who will all end up top 20 in a few years when they post the "Redo the 2018 draft thread".

Add to that LDU, Larkey, BMac, Zurhaar and Ive got faith in Xerri making it as a forward.
Last couple of drafts have been pretty good.

 

[Mcarcherey]

Remind me, where did I say trade everyone over 25? Where did I say it guarantees success? Don't be disengenuous. It's a strategy that differs from the same old stupidity we've always be known to favour. Let senior blokes rot until they have no value and then replace them with pick 100. That doesn't work, absolutely guaranteed. And the only thing that is actually guaranteed.

I said Hawthorn benefitted from taking their medicine, as did Collingwood in 2005 whose success was built from attaining Pendles and Thomas in one draft as did West Coast when they got access to Gaff and Nic Nat despite never being a terrible team. Winning meaningless games that get you to 10th is not going to help us in the long run.

I suggested that Brown has value and is not that good that we could turn down two x top 10 picks if that offer were to come.

Just to reiterate; Goldstein, Dumont, Macmillan, Tyson and Turner would be the ones I'd trade, and I doubt we'd be much worse if that eventuates.

We need to be bold, we need to be different. And I hope we try. You and I both know our list is in much better shape than both St.Kilda and Carlton so not sure why you continue to compare their result to the result that we could have.

If we don't end up with Anderson or Rowell, all this heartache will have been for nothing.

Ask yourself what would a successful ruthless club do? What would Clarkson do if he accepted our offer?

I'm not saying you said "trade anyone over 25" HOWEVER you said to trade brown because in 4-5 years he'll be no good - therefore one can only assume you're heavily on the side of trading anyone who won't be of value in 4-5 years time, that's most 25+ years olds in the team....

how is trading out talent the current team is built around the same as what hawthorn, collingwood and WCE have done? your statement about hawthorn, collingwood and WCE hasn't proven the point your point. Gaff and Nic Nat were from WCE bottoming out for 2 years, 2 years later they were back in finals....that's not 4-5 years. you also seem to forgot north have enough salary cap to get 1-2 players of this ilk anyway, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by trading out our best players for picks that aren't even guaranteed top 5 - we won't even reach the minimum required spend of the salary cap if that happens lol.

trade brown for two top 10 picks - we'll only pick up 2 KPP with that, one of which you'd hope could be half as good as brown and the other to replace maybe taz or backup KPF. chances are though, they'll be worse than brown and taz and only puts the team in a worse position. best case they take 5 years to develop to which i direct you to the above scenario of trading out anyone over 25...

"Just to reiterate; Goldstein, Dumont, Macmillan, Tyson and Turner would be the ones I'd trade, and I doubt we'd be much worse if that eventuates."
Goldstein - pick in the 70's if that
dumont - second/third rounder (for the record i love him but he's not rated externally)
macmillan - third/fourth rounder
tyson - thrid/fourth rounder
turner - third/fourth rounder
....all you're achieving by doing this is trading out average players that are AFL standard and proven professionals with untried kids that will most likely not last more than 4 years.

i know you think this is "bold and different" but it's the same old typical rebuild and it's pointless. like i said, this is a style adopted by teams with no proven success - hawthorn, collingwood or WCE DIDN'T DO THIS.

i'm comparing carlton and st kilda (i also put in melbourne, GCS and you can throw essendon in there too) because they're the closest example of teams going through rebuilds you've suggested - once you're vision of trading players like brown is acted upon our list will be in WORSE shape than st kilda and carlton.

are anderson and rowell the currently regard top draft picks? yea, heaven forbid we miss out on these guys - a few years ago at this point in the year i remember Durdin being talked up as a top 3 pick, it changes all the time....

i don't ask myself what a successful club does, i've looked at it in depth. you're suggesting a run of the mill, AFL shock-jock radio host suggestion of a rebuild. all it does is destroy players morale being smashed week-in-week-out, lets opposition get easy wins and lets the media further s**t on north.

we have a decent list and plenty of salary cap. the club and everyone here knows it's all been a strategy/coaching issue this year, not personnel issues. we're replacing the coach and along with it a significant portion of the rest of the footy department.

being bold and different doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater - the club is addressing the issue that's not working, that's within the footy department, not the players.

 

[Sticks Mckonky]

thread has turned into a trading thread???
Breathe, let the season unfold and see where we are at, The review will tip out a few more and the skies will clear. Changes required everywhere and they are happening. B.Buckley can do this.

 

[Chadwiko]

Disagree that the club needs a "cultural shift".

New football game plan and football leadership? Sure. Absolutely.

But off-field the club is in the best shape it has ever been by any measurable figure, and that isn't an accident; it's the result of hard work and the right approach to running a modern organisation.

 

[the flying ham]

Disagree that the club needs a "cultural shift".

New football game plan and football leadership? Sure. Absolutely.

But off-field the club is in the best shape it has ever been by any measurable figure, and that isn't an accident; it's the result of hard work and the right approach to running a modern organisation.

This. Well said.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Only Forwards]

Disagree that the club needs a "cultural shift".

New football game plan and football leadership? Sure. Absolutely.

But off-field the club is in the best shape it has ever been by any measurable figure, and that isn't an accident; it's the result of hard work and the right approach to running a modern organisation.

There are more aspects than just footy that need to be reviewed.

I don't think we need a cultural shift either.

I think we need a thorough review board down.

There were issues coming from the membership dept through the preseason.

We've still missed significantly in giving members avenues to celebrate or memorabilia for our 150th.

These are not onfield related but 100% should be part of a review on how we run the club.

Honestly who the f*** wants a monopoly game?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Chads under the impression that there's two North Melbourne Football Clubs.

He supports the political version.

 

[muttley45]

Completely agree.

I have a feeling that this Friday night will give us a very good indication of what we face.

If we're flat and down and get belted, OK, we're going to need a pretty serious rethink.

But, if as I suspect, we can come out breathing fire, and even if we don't win, run it very close, then boom, things are looking right up.

I genuinely believe that we've had the "big draft" that any club rebuilding/resetting needs to have - Thomas, Scott and Taylor.

Three blokes who will all end up top 20 in a few years when they post the "Redo the 2018 draft thread".

Don't leave young Crocker out of the equation, as far as "in a few years" prognostications go too.

 

[Devington]

Disagree that the club needs a "cultural shift".

New football game plan and football leadership? Sure. Absolutely.

But off-field the club is in the best shape it has ever been by any measurable figure, and that isn't an accident; it's the result of hard work and the right approach to running a modern organisation.

Have to disagree. Our Financial and PR game is seemingly on point, but we do have a lot of off field issues that need addressing. Member and coterie engagement have suffered significantly over the last few years according to many, we seem to somewhat shun the players of the 90's, there is the everpresent issue of how the board communicates with the members and some of the changes to the constitution that they have put in place.

 

[kaboom kid]

I'm not saying you said "trade anyone over 25" HOWEVER you said to trade brown because in 4-5 years he'll be no good - therefore one can only assume you're heavily on the side of trading anyone who won't be of value in 4-5 years time, that's most 25+ years olds in the team....

how is trading out talent the current team is built around the same as what hawthorn, collingwood and WCE have done? your statement about hawthorn, collingwood and WCE hasn't proven the point your point. Gaff and Nic Nat were from WCE bottoming out for 2 years, 2 years later they were back in finals....that's not 4-5 years. you also seem to forgot north have enough salary cap to get 1-2 players of this ilk anyway, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by trading out our best players for picks that aren't even guaranteed top 5 - we won't even reach the minimum required spend of the salary cap if that happens lol.

trade brown for two top 10 picks - we'll only pick up 2 KPP with that, one of which you'd hope could be half as good as brown and the other to replace maybe taz or backup KPF. chances are though, they'll be worse than brown and taz and only puts the team in a worse position. best case they take 5 years to develop to which i direct you to the above scenario of trading out anyone over 25...

"Just to reiterate; Goldstein, Dumont, Macmillan, Tyson and Turner would be the ones I'd trade, and I doubt we'd be much worse if that eventuates."
Goldstein - pick in the 70's if that
dumont - second/third rounder (for the record i love him but he's not rated externally)
macmillan - third/fourth rounder
tyson - thrid/fourth rounder
turner - third/fourth rounder
....all you're achieving by doing this is trading out average players that are AFL standard and proven professionals with untried kids that will most likely not last more than 4 years.

i know you think this is "bold and different" but it's the same old typical rebuild and it's pointless. like i said, this is a style adopted by teams with no proven success - hawthorn, collingwood or WCE DIDN'T DO THIS.

i'm comparing carlton and st kilda (i also put in melbourne, GCS and you can throw essendon in there too) because they're the closest example of teams going through rebuilds you've suggested - once you're vision of trading players like brown is acted upon our list will be in WORSE shape than st kilda and carlton.

are anderson and rowell the currently regard top draft picks? yea, heaven forbid we miss out on these guys - a few years ago at this point in the year i remember Durdin being talked up as a top 3 pick, it changes all the time....

i don't ask myself what a successful club does, i've looked at it in depth. you're suggesting a run of the mill, AFL shock-jock radio host suggestion of a rebuild. all it does is destroy players morale being smashed week-in-week-out, lets opposition get easy wins and lets the media further **** on north.

we have a decent list and plenty of salary cap. the club and everyone here knows it's all been a strategy/coaching issue this year, not personnel issues. we're replacing the coach and along with it a significant portion of the rest of the footy department.

being bold and different doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater - the club is addressing the issue that's not working, that's within the footy department, not the players.

100% this.....it beggars belief that arseclowns in the media still peddle this myth that trading your best players is the formula for success.... none of the successful clubs do it. Yet the likes of Carlton and Melbourne are revered for their responsible approach to winning the next flag....