Solved The Bodies in the Barrels...

[Burton89onegoal]

I wonder if the judges would consider making a ruling such as "you can apply for parole in the year 2099" or something like that.

Give him what he wants, but at same time, makes no practical difference.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Well he was given 10 life sentences, so perhaps after serving 3 would be an appropriate time.

Its certainly no laughing matter, but you have to see the irony in a bloke who wants to seek release to spend time with his Son, he wasn't thinking about a Fathers time with their Son when he was squeezing the life out of their Sons.

 

[FR0GGY]

Who cares what he wants, he gave up that right a long time ago.

 

[Burton89onegoal]

Like everyone, he has a right of appeal (or at least to apply), but lets just hope the appellate judge(s) use their common sense.

 

[GreyCrow]

He asks for a date so it gives him something to look forward to, yet his actions (and those of his co-accused) means he will never be released. Giving a NPP is a waste of taxpayers and court time

 

[Macca_1870]

Would be staggered if the courts even pondered the thought of imposing a parole date for Wagner, let alone actually going ahead with it. One of the few characters where literally locking him up and throwing away the key is most appropriate.

Common sense has prevailed. Wagner's appeal for an eventual non-parole period has been refused, in a judgement that took just 10 seconds to deliver.

 

[Kurve]

British podcast Redhanded Snowtown Ep. 55 has picked this up. In the intro they explain their research so there's no complaints, it's quite good. Some in there I had no idea about, like one of their first victims lay in the morgue unidentified for a year. Also explains the background in some detail, how the group evolved and Wagner's relationship history which was quite interesting.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Also on the latest Australian True Crime podcast. Episode 100.

 

[johnymac1]

the movie Snowtown is on tv this friday 8.30pm.
never seen it before

 

[PenfoldsFan]

the movie Snowtown is on tv this friday 8.30pm.
never seen it before

Certainly worth a look if you can handle the violence portrayed, it is shocking to say the least.
The kid playing the skill tester in the opening scenes played junior footy with my eldest Son and i did a course with the girl in the kitchen scene holding the baby.

 

[Gough]

I played some footy with Justin Kurzel's younger brother.

 

[johnymac1]

during the lengthy trial, the defendants did try to stare down members of the jury. I guess in an attempt to intimidate them.

 

[SquiffyRae]

After quite a while of putting it off, I finally bit the bullet and gave the movie a try. All I can say is wow. It is hands down the single darkest, most bleak movie I have ever watched yet incredibly compelling. It's so uncomfortable yet at the same time you can't stop watching.

I'm not a huge horror fan but Snowtown made every horror movie I've seen with friends look like child's play in comparison. It's so incredibly immersive at times it feels like they just followed a bunch of Salisbury residents around not like a scripted movie. Maybe it's just because I've lived in similar suburbs in Perth most of my life but at times it hits very close to home. Elizabeth's screaming match at the neighbour, the housing, the clothing, the accents and the vocabulary. I could drive a few minutes in just about any direction and see similar sights. Not as dreary but similar. Most horror movies are set in a place that's scary by design, almost so cartoonishly unrealistic that they feel comfortably fake. There's something incredibly unnerving about seeing a portrait of everyday life on the screen in front of you while unspeakable horrors take place in the background. It's not some spooky castle or abandoned sawmill, it's neighbourhoods that exist very close to me. Had Bunting made it to Perth like he originally planned those could've been my streets.

It's also really jumpy in an uncomfortable way. To use every English teacher's favourite word, the juxtaposition in this film is off the scale. The near constant chopping and changing is uncomfortable enough but it's very deliberate. One minute it's showing John the caring family man doing every day mundane things, even being somewhat likeable. The next, it cuts to John being the tough guy and the sadistic killer. It's funny how in the grand scheme of things, the first half of the movie flies by with virtually nothing happening in comparison to the second half yet your head really feels messed with cause of the constant back and forth in moods every few minutes.

I think the major downside to the film (apart from those scenes that would make your friends and relatives question what the hell you watch in your spare time) is the story development. I've seen some reviews complain that they didn't know the back story beforehand and were left feeling confused and I can understand how that happens. I knew the story pretty much inside out going in and even I struggled to keep up at times. The constant chopping sets up the mood but it kind of prevents a coherent story arc from developing. It jumps back and forth a bit in the timeline without it being obvious. Like it shows Robert hanging around Barry but doesn't really explain that Barry had groomed Robert. Then it jumps to Barry and Thomas being together and then Barry's "moved to Queensland." It then jumps back to 1995/96 with the Ray Davies story arc and briefly introduces Suzanne but doesn't develop it to explain John eventually finding her annoying and killing her cause she wouldn't leave him alone. I think it's got all the pieces there but it really needs the viewer to know the back story to understand what's going on.

I will say though the cinematography is amazing. Given the subject matter it would've been very easy for the film to descend into the Troy scene over and over and over again. So I will say it was impressively handled that they manage to allude to so many people dying with relatively little on screen carnage. Some of the scenes at the end are absolutely amazing.

The scene in Gary O'Dwyer's house where, thinking he made some friends, he excitedly shows them his pets. He shows Jamie one of his snakes as he feeds it. The camera's hanging on the snake for the longest time as the snake sizes up its prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike and then out of nowhere it does. It's then immediately followed up with an unsuspecting Gary excitedly showing John more of his snakes. Jamie watches as the same macabre scene plays out in front of him. Robert is standing in the background silently, waiting. Then you get a glimpse of him getting up and moving before boom scene change.

For a relatively tame scene, the table discussion where Mark confesses he told his wife about the killings is one I found weirdly uncomfortable. There's something very unsettling about hearing stereotypical "fat wife" jokes used in that context where John joins in and quite clearly hates her perhaps more than Mark does. It becomes more uncomfortable hearing jokes you've heard other people make in real life bookending a conversation where Mark signs his own wife's death warrant and despite clearly being frustrated with her is in his own weird way almost pleading with John to spare her. You can really feel an almost hopeless inevitability as if you're Jamie watching passively on only to have it confirmed when John proudly makes Jamie listen to his latest recording on the computer.

But I've gotta say the single greatest scene in the movie is the finale. The combination of the shots and the soundtrack make it almost unbearably tense. The whole film is shot from Jamie's POV but this is the moment you genuinely feel like Jamie. Because, like Jamie, you know what's going to happen. The casual conversation that completely belies what is about to happen. The music gets more intense. They stop for Jamie to have a leak. He looks back at David. He's dragging it out, trying to make any excuse he can to avoid the situation that awaits them at the end of the journey. He gets back in the car. The music gets more intense. Cue the amazing shots of Snowtown at dusk. You don't even see them travelling anymore but that does nothing to ease the tension. The music keeps going. That relentless drumbeat like Jamie's heart racing. The fading light with every shot reminding you that their journey is getting close to the end. It's almost been going on too long now. They get stuck by a train outside Snowtown. Now it's almost unbearable. Like Jamie wanting the car ride to just be over, so too do you just want the scene to end. Finally they reach the bank and Jamie takes David inside. Suddenly the intensity of the music drops. Without all that busy background, suddenly the sole drum beat creates an almost uncomfortable silence. At the same time, there's another uncomfortable silence as David is trying to process why John and Robert are there. Something is very wrong but he can't quite put his finger on it. Then you get the final shot as the fluoro tubes start flickering and you see Jamie slowly, silently, close the door to the bank. Honestly, one of the best shot sequences of any movie I've ever seen and hardly a word is spoken. If nothing else, I would recommend everyone watch the final 5 minutes as that alone cements this film as a classic.

Sorry that got a bit long but as I'm sure most who have watched this will know, it's a film that really gets your thoughts racing for a variety of reasons.

 

[DropBearess]

An excellent synopsis of this film. It has won multiple unheard of awards and is very under-rated. Among the best movies l've ever seen. Turn your head if you don't want the blood and guts. This film stands alone without it. Exceptional acting by real people.
I recommend watching this at least three times, even if you already know the entire story, as l did. New perceptions appear each time.
This film is an incredibly raw and real social commentary of life in disadvantaged suburbs.

 

[radiojake]

Don't have it in me to watch - some details i just don't need to know

 

[Kurve]

An excellent synopsis of this film. It has won multiple unheard of awards and is very under-rated. Among the best movies l've ever seen. Turn your head if you don't want the blood and guts. This film stands alone without it. Exceptional acting by real people.
I recommend watching this at least three times, even if you already know the entire story, as l did. New perceptions appear each time.
This film is an incredibly raw and real social commentary of life in disadvantaged suburbs.

It was too good and I know it was because I still haven't been able to sit through it. My filters are usually great and can steel myself against an overreaction - it's just a movie - but it still gets me, every time and I have to turn it off. I've tried everything I can think of to watch it through but it has me beaten.

When the Snowtown director is done making the movie on Martin Bryant and the Port Arthur massacre, I will try and watch that as well but animal cruelty features in Bryant's childhood and am already reconciled that I might not get through that either.

 

[SquiffyRae]

An excellent synopsis of this film. It has won multiple unheard of awards and is very under-rated. Among the best movies l've ever seen. Turn your head if you don't want the blood and guts. This film stands alone without it. Exceptional acting by real people.
I recommend watching this at least three times, even if you already know the entire story, as l did. New perceptions appear each time.
This film is an incredibly raw and real social commentary of life in disadvantaged suburbs.

I'll have to give it a rewatch once my mind's fully recovered from the first time. It definitely seems like the sort of film where there's layer upon layer of things to notice as you rewatch it. Just off the top of my head there were some other interesting details that stood out:

John and Barry's relationship. Pretty much every on-screen interaction they have is John flexing power over him. The big one's when Barry is giving John the names of local paedophiles and he rattles them off so fast John can't keep up so he stops him. Barry gives him a few seconds, starts again. John makes him stop. Very much "I'm in charge here."

David Johnson whenever he appears there's always an emphasis on how good he has it. Starting a new apprenticeship, buying new shoes with his first pay, having a girlfriend smart enough to gasp go to university. It's a great example of the crab in a bucket mentality of low income communities that anyone trying to better themselves is seen as being too good for them and trying to get out. Throughout the whole thing David's only "crime" is not wanting to be permanently stuck in Salisbury North.

Another chilling scene was when Jamie confronts Elizabeth after Ray's murder. She lies and says she's crying cause she had a fight with John and Jamie's response is "don't f--k this up mum." That's another one of those too real moments where Jamie's more scared of losing the only positive male influence in his life than his mother's happiness.

And just a personal preference for me, I liked how they made Gavin Porter a bit of light relief. Some of the few not bleak moments in the film come when Gavin's around cracking a few silly jokes. It actually makes the scene where they recreate how John initiated Jamie into their group a lot harder to swallow cause you couldn't help but like him. That was Lucas Pittaway's best moment of the movie imo. I don't know much about his background but there was such a genuine sense of betrayal every time he cried "but he was my friend."

 

[BomberManU]

Totally agree with your thoughts, SquiffyRae. A very disturbing, but mesmerising, journey. It wasn't even the on-screen violence that got under my skin - I was actually expecting it to be worse. It was the tone, the 'vibe', that made me constantly shift in my seat.
And yeah, that final sequence is amazing - reminded me of the end of another Aus 'based on a real crime' film - 'The Boys'.

 

[Kurve]

Mark Haydon has applied for bail, his wife Elizabeth was one of the victims.


Mark Ray Haydon, 62, was not convicted of murdering anyone, but was convicted of seven counts of assisting the other three men to dispose of the bodies.

He received a 25-year sentence, with his prison term due to finish in May 2024.

Snowtown murders accomplice applies for parole after 2017 knockback

A key figure involved in the infamous Snowtown murders applies to be released from jail early for a second time — but families of the victims believe he should serve his full sentence.

www.abc.net.au

 

[GreyCrow]

I think the SA government must make application with more than 12 months left on his head sentence to have him deemed dangerous.

I am unsure as to his full culpability and degree of 'followers mentality' but I do worry over his wife's murder and why he didn't make more of it

 

[SquiffyRae]

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if Haydon was released without much of an issue once his time was up (at least on the admin end, community opinion might be a bit more tricky).

Haydon just seems too...well dopey to be dangerous. I remember reading he was bragging about "putting a man in the ground" after Tresize's murder and used it in a threat to someone around the same time but they never took it seriously. And in terms of the murders, the most active role he ever played was beating Troy Youde. Overall he didn't seem to take any great pleasure in the killings by all accounts, at least not in the way Bunting and Wagner did.

I am unsure as to his full culpability and degree of 'followers mentality' but I do worry over his wife's murder and why he didn't make more of it

Jamie's confession covered this a little as well. Haydon told Bunting his wife knew about Tresize's murder already knowing Bunting hated his wife. He was seemingly stupid enough or passive enough to spend an afternoon out with his wife's sister at Bunting's insistence. If the possibility of her becoming a victim didn't cross his mind he's exceptionally stupid.

Now at the time he didn't challenge it but in April 1999, when the 4 of them went to the bank with cement bags, Bunting apparently took great pleasure at seeing Elizabeth Haydon in the barrel and how she had decomposed more rapidly than others. Shortly after this, Vlassakis said he and Haydon were outside the vault and he came up to Vlassakis and said how he couldn't stomach it. Jamie also reckoned Haydon was a bit more distressed after his wife's murder but would play along when Bunting talked about it to keep up appearances.

Overall I'd put both Haydon and Vlassakis in the same category. Both were to some degree influenced by Bunting and in a way became trapped once they became aware of what he was doing. In the end, they had very little options that ended well for them personally. Either they went to the police and got arrested themselves or stood up to Bunting which likely ends with them in a barrel if he thinks they're gonna be a liability. But at the same time, unlike Wagner, they didn't take any real pleasure in the killings. Cause of that they're still bad people but probably not lock them up and throw away the key bad

 

[maskmcgee]

He's probably the most interesting case in prison right now. I doubt Vlassakis will ever be considered for parole, same as people like Lindsay Beckett. If Haydon had a life sentence he'd never get out, but him having a maximum sentence will make things interesting. Wouldn't be surprised to see more charges suddenly brought against him, for things like Fraud to try to keep him in jail.

 

[Kurve]

Haydon was released a couple of weeks ago as a parolee but the state government has applied for an extended supervision order

Snowtown 'bodies-in-the-barrels' accomplice Mark Haydon released from prison

The head of South Australia's parole board says Snowtown accomplice Mark Haydon has been released after serving a 25-year jail sentence. The South Australian government says he will reside at the Adelaide Pre-Release Centre as a condition of his parole.

www.abc.net.au