Mega Thread The book thread.

[medusala]

I enjoyed this book. One of those that could be delved into as the mood took. Each chapter more written as an essay on the specific "kingdom". For a bit of less than a dry read it more than hits the spot as entertainment. Some would not be happy with the book title, hardly kingdoms at times, Eire is a prime example but that should not in general detract from the book. Some may not like the songs and poems interspersed throughout but again it is more a book aimed at entertaining and readable lay history. I do like the writing style of Davies. As much as I enjoy dry academic tomes generally there is nothing wrong with writing for the layman. A nice read and I will delve further into the authors work one day.

I have bought this but not read it yet. The author certainly seems to offend plenty of people for some reason. An earlier book of his got panned by a number of other historians. Maybe though as per Orlando Figes that was as much about personalities rather than anything else.

Re Afghanistan, have you read the below? I thought it was excellent. Most enjoyable reading.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Great-Game-Secret-Service/dp/0719564476

 

[John]

Chief, he of unmatched wisdom is too busy with his looking under his beds for racists.

I have not read it. Hagiography in your opinion?

 

[medusala]

I have not read it. Hagiography in your opinion?

I have read a few books on Churchill (and the entire History of the English Speaking Peoples by him as well as a short collection re his time in Afghanistan, South Africa etc). There is a fair bit of hagiography and few of the authors write as well as he does. Churchill had plenty of faults and plenty of stuff ups. They tend to get glanced over. Cant see myself buying it other than to see how well Boris can write.

This caught my eye the other day in a bookshop. Looks interesting.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Christendom...3802447&sr=1-1&keywords=christendom+destroyed

 

[John]

I have bought this but not read it yet. The author certainly seems to offend plenty of people for some reason. An earlier book of his got panned by a number of other historians. Maybe though as per Orlando Figes that was as much about personalities rather than anything else.

Re Afghanistan, have you read the below? I thought it was excellent. Most enjoyable reading.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Great-Game-Secret-Service/dp/0719564476

Light reading and not for me to comment on its rights or wrongs nor his personality. I read some very dry stuff at times and these style of books make easy reading when the moment is right. I believe he is an expert on Poland? Other than that I know little about him.

I need to read The Great Game. Now marked to read, 210 and rising. My readings on Asia in general are limited to that Taliban book I mentioned above, a few on the Vietnam War, a couple of books on Japan post Meiji Reformation, a couple of primers on China and A Brief History Of Kublai Khan. I think I have been missing out on a heck of a lot and the recent TV serious I watched, Alexander's Lost World by David Adams rammed that home to me. Almost "fantasy like" in scope the history of Asia!!

 

[John]

I have read a few books on Churchill (and the entire History of the English Speaking Peoples by him as well as a short collection re his time in Afghanistan, South Africa etc). There is a fair bit of hagiography and few of the authors write as well as he does. Churchill had plenty of faults and plenty of stuff ups. They tend to get glanced over. Cant see myself buying it other than to see how well Boris can write.

This caught my eye the other day in a bookshop. Looks interesting.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Christendom-Destroyed-1517-1648-1500-1650-History/dp/0713990864/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413802447&sr=1-1&keywords=christendom destroyed

I read that in my youth and can hardy recall it. I will have to revisit. My father idolised Churchill as just about every Sussex Conservative does/did. Hence I was rather impressed as a youth. I am no longer an admirer of historical figures of any type and try to take then "for what they are" so Churchill is on my list of very interesting figures worth reading about as opposed to admiring.

Christendom Destroyed does indeed look interesting. The end date 1648 leads straight to the Peace of Westphalia and is significant in the history of not only Germany but Europe. I have read a bit on the reformation and the 30 Year War and find it fascinating.

This by Wilson is superb.

The book is set out into three parts, The Beginning, Conflict and finally Aftermath. I initially got through the 1st part of the book and realised that I knew little of the reformation. I read The Reformation In Germany by C Scott Dixon and restarted Europe's Tragedy again. This made life a little easier in understanding the religious tensions that were present in the Holy Roman Empire in the time leading up to the outbreak of the war in 1618. I have recently read Reformation Europe by Elton ($1 at Lifeline bookfest) and have a couple of others that I have delved into without starting reading in full such as The Reformation by MacCulloch and the various general histories I have.

Anyway of you want to read something that is riveting I am about 125 pages into this travel book that is not out of place on a history site considering it time and place. So far I am unable to speak high enough of this.

 

[John]

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/oct/24/jared-diamond-bestselling-biogeographer-answers-critics

Just read this on Jared Diamond for those that are interested.

 

[medusala]

Anyway of you want to read something that is riveting I am about 125 pages into this travel book that is not out of place on a history site considering it time and place. So far I am unable to speak high enough of this.

View attachment 88343

A bio of the author has just come out. Very interesting chap. Have read a bit about his efforts in the war but haven't read any of his books.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patrick-Lei...d_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0VM1PADCDP6PGEW62RHG

Patrick Leigh Fermor (1915-2011) was a war hero whose exploits in Crete are legendary, and above all he is widely acclaimed as the greatest travel writer of our times, notably for his books about his walk across pre-war Europe, A Time of Gifts and Between the Woods and the Water; he was a self-educated polymath, a lover of Greece and the best company in the world

 

[John]

I can do no more than recommend this wonderful book to those that enjoy a mixture of travel and history written with lyrical and romantic prose. An 18 year old Patrick Leigh Fermor headed for the hook of Holland to walk to Constantinople one wintry December day in 1933. He landed in Rotterdam and in the final page of this 1st volume saw him entering Hungary 290 odd pages later. He describes his time with the worker and peasants through to the aristocrat as he wanders from one city to the next and village to castle in-between. The title is apt. The constant gift of everything from a bed in a barn through to the historical lessens of Baron Philipps (Pips) von Schey have made this a remarkable adventure that has stood the test of time. In fact the book may be more poignant for the description of a Europe that no longer exists. Yes he does describe the Nazis first year in power and the problems of Austria at that time but there is a sense of wide eyed youthful observation as opposed to political comment.

If one thing came about from my reading of this book is the wanderlust of the mind that it constantly germinated. I spent my time looking up the names, places and events it described. I doubt that the Europe of today would aid a student as it may of in the past, a Europe then not far from as devastating a war ever in truth, but I ask would one still not want the curious to want to see what changes that destructive event has made on that continent and not like to compare? Fermor alludes to this very early with a comment on visiting Groote Kerk in Rotterdam and stating that if he had known its fate he would have "lingered" longer.

I would like to linger at all the places described, even if they no longer exist, but will have to make do with the next volume, Between the Woods and the Water.

 

[John]

A bio of the author has just come out. Very interesting chap. Have read a bit about his efforts in the war but haven't read any of his books.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patrick-Lei...d_sim_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0VM1PADCDP6PGEW62RHG

Patrick Leigh Fermor (1915-2011) was a war hero whose exploits in Crete are legendary, and above all he is widely acclaimed as the greatest travel writer of our times, notably for his books about his walk across pre-war Europe, A Time of Gifts and Between the Woods and the Water; he was a self-educated polymath, a lover of Greece and the best company in the world

This is a serious coincidence. You post this while I write a revue. You really need to read this book.

 

[John]

Patrick Leigh Fermor (1915-2011) was a war hero whose exploits in Crete are legendary,

I intend to read his Bio. I intend to read his entire output eventually! If all that he wrote is only half as good as A Time Of Gifts I for one will be satisfied.

For an astonishing coincidence he recalls in A Time Of Gifts his time with Einer von de Heydte, a young Baron in his mid 20's, who befriended him during his stay in Austria. von de Heydte he described as "civilised, quite, thoughtful and amusing" with a manner far removed from German military tradition. On the first day of the Battle of Crete Fermor was asked to translate captured German documents that disclosed that his previous acquaintance was a Capitan of the main attack. He describes this coincident in a beautifully written paragraph and ends with a footnote that Einer survived to write "an admirable book" on those times called Daedalus Returned and they maintained correspondence after the war.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Best I've read for a long time is:

Was in a bookstore on the weekend for the first time in ages (now i get everything on the kindle) and picked up this book. Looked super interesting, might have to order on amazon.

On a related note, i've forgotten how much i miss just wandering bookstores and picking up random books. The Kindle is great, but lose that experience. Will have to be more diligent to spend time there, even if not buying.

 

[medusala]

This is a serious coincidence. You post this while I write a revue. You really need to read this book.

Has just turned up in the post. May have to shuffle future reading order and promote it to near the top

 

[Roylion]

I enjoyed this book. One of those that could be delved into as the mood took. Each chapter more written as an essay on the specific "kingdom". For a bit of less than a dry read it more than hits the spot as entertainment. Some would not be happy with the book title, hardly kingdoms at times, Eire is a prime example but that should not in general detract from the book. Some may not like the songs and poems interspersed throughout but again it is more a book aimed at entertaining and readable lay history. I do like the writing style of Davies. As much as I enjoy dry academic tomes generally there is nothing wrong with writing for the layman. A nice read and I will delve further into the authors work one day.

I was in the middle of reading this (which I was thoroughly enjoying)

but now I've gone and started re-reading "Vanished Kingdoms".

Curse you John!

 

[John]

I was in the middle of reading this (which I was thoroughly enjoying)

but now I've gone and started re-reading "Vanished Kingdoms".

Curse you John!

Haa haa! I have had the same problem with Patrick Leigh Fermor and was not going to read the next volume Between the Woods and The Waters but the conversation with medusala has weakened me. I am now addicted to the late great Fermor and after only one chapter am unable to put it down. I mean a book that has me scurrying to the www to check out the unknown (to me at least) Burial of Count Orgaz on one page and then an obscure (again to me at least) Hungarian castle town Visegrad on another has more than a lot going for it.



I looked at "Sapiens" in my fav book shop the a few weeks back. I have since read some very promising reviews. Do I spend to add to the 200 odd books waiting to be read? Decisions Decisions!

An old friend once said my epitaph would be "He died with a history book in his hand" and that was an obvious reference to what he was reading at the time.

 

[John]

1215: The Year of Magna Carta by Danny Danzinger and John Gillingham.

Good popular history. Odd title though as it is a general history of the era, not really a book about 1215. No footnotes but a nice bibliography. I have always found the US obsession with the Magna Carta strange in that they cite it for their own domestic politics. It seems to be held in less reverence in England. Probably because they realised it was it was never a document to aid the peasants etc but more the nobility of the time and their dislike of funding the unpopular King John.

The Norman and their Myths by R Davis.

I found this in my fathers library after his passing and only just got around to it last year. A book explaining how the Normans viewed themselves and their history. Very interesting and those with a bent towards Norman history would not be disappointed. I have read a couple of books on the Normans now and will post a couple as time passes.

 

[medusala]

The Norman and their Myths by R Davis.



I found this in my fathers library after his passing and only just got around to it last year. A book explaining how the Normans viewed themselves and their history. Very interesting and those with a bent towards Norman history would not be disappointed. I have read a couple of books on the Normans now and will post a couple as time passes.

I am about 100 pages in on a book on the Norman invasion. Cant think of the title at the moment. Its a bit slow going so managed to start a couple of others but will get back to it. I find that period of history interesting (and even more so the debate re the Anglo Saxon migration)

 

[John]

I am about 100 pages in on a book on the Norman invasion. Cant think of the title at the moment. Its a bit slow going so managed to start a couple of others but will get back to it. I find that period of history interesting (and even more so the debate re the Anglo Saxon migration)

Have you ever seen the Bayeux Tapestry? I had the pleasure about 3 years back and consider it one of the greatest pieces of antiquity I have seen. While there I picked up the T-shirt and a very good book by Carola Hicks called The Bayeux Tapestry: The Life Story of a Masterpiece. I could not put this detective story down and though there are a few suppositions this did not detract from the story told. From the beginning to the times of Napoleon and more recently the Nazis, Carola Hicks has told a good tale of this wonderful piece of embroidered propaganda. Recommended. Keep away from The Monuments Men that briefly covers this event. Average book and I am told average movie as well. I have some other books I have read on the Normans and will post about them in the coming days. A fascinating subject. Not nearly enough discussed about their architecture and other conquests such as Sicily.

I have not read a lot on Saxon Migration as a specific subject, just what I have read in general English history and what Francis Pryor has written in his archaeology tomes but I was under the impression that recent DNA research has killed of a lot of theory in the area. I should check it out sometime.

 

[medusala]

Have you ever seen the Bayeux Tapestry?.

No I haven't.

.

I have not read a lot on Saxon Migration as a specific subject, just what I have read in general English history and what Francis Pryor has written in his archaeology tomes but I was under the impression that recent DNA research has killed of a lot of theory in the area. I should check it out sometime.

I have seen a number of docos / read articles re this (including Pryors). Bit of a clash between geologists / historians re this it would seem with Pryor on one extreme. I think DNA research has been conflicting too, see below. I quite like history which is quite open to debate such as the dark ages and more recently the Vietnam War.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2076470.stm

The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.

Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English
It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.

 

[John]

Great post medusala

A topic worthy of its own thread. I have just done a search on this subject and included Pryor and it is extensive. DNA is not something I understand and this http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/7/1008.full proves it. I would be really out of my depth to even attempt to debate the subject.

http://www.romanarmy.net/invasion.shtml

I have read 4 Pryor books but not Britain AD. Sitting ready and waiting though. I will have to get on with it soon. I really need to read up on this and try and understand it though. By the way Pryors Britain BC and Seahenge are both exceptionally interesting books. I am a big fan of his writings as well as his Time Team stuff. I have a personally signed copy of The Birth Of Modern Britain that I got from Flag Fen when I made a visit. No he was not there to sign it. Just loads at an exorbitant price in the gift shop.

 

[medusala]

I have a personally signed copy of The Birth Of Modern Britain that I got from Flag Fen when I made a visit. No he was not there to sign it. Just loads at an exorbitant price in the gift shop.

My favourite bookshop in London is Hatchards on Piccadilly. Always struggle to walk past it. Often have signed copies of history books in there.

There is something about the book shop experience. I could never do kindle either. Just being able to look at a bookshelf at home and flick through an old hard back is something I greatly enjoy.

This is a brilliant threads, heaps of great contributions. Lots of ideas for new books for me (and one purchase already thanks to you)

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Genetic tests show clear differences between the Welsh and English
It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side.

Interesting discussion gents. How do the Cornish fit into this Meds?

 

[John]

My favourite bookshop in London is Hatchards on Piccadilly.

I have to make a short UK visit just after Xmas. I am going to struggle to get to London but if able I will be looking this place up. Signed and first editions appeals.

 

[John]

Interesting discussion gents. How do the Cornish fit into this Meds?

To quote from this item (and well worth reading through I might add)
http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/features/what-makes-british

"There have been a number of theories over the years as to what happened to the Romano-British population, says Robinson, an environmental archaeologist. One is that the Romano- British population was physically driven westwards to Cornwall and Wales out of the south-eastern and central portion of Britain which had been colonised by the Romans. “It has also been suggested that a small Anglo-Saxon elite arrived that somehow persuaded the Romano-British population to adopt their culture, customs and language,” says Robinson. Other theories have involved a virtual genocide of the Romano-Britons by the invading Anglo-Saxons."

Here's another item worth the time.
http://www.abroadintheyard.com/how-celtic-is-modern-cornish-dna/

"But just how distinct and ‘Celtic’ is the DNA of the modern day Cornish?

In 2012 a survey of the genetic ancestry of the Peoples of the British Isles (PoBI) run by Oxford scientists found that the Cornish (i.e. those living in rural areas with all four grandparents born in the same area) were among the most genetically distinct groups in the country, and were possibly even a ‘relic’ population of the first tribes to recolonise Britain after the Ice Age. They were also genetically distinct from their neighbours in Devon, and from populations in south east and central England which were described as “a real genetic cocktail” with parts of their DNA matching Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking settlers, as well as the pre-Roman population.

The Welsh were also found to be distinct and, like the Cornish, similar to populations in north west France and Ireland, suggesting a pre-Roman connection. Curiously though, the Cornish are more genetically similar to the English than the Welsh. This points to some intermingling between the ancient Celtic and incoming Anglo-Saxon populations in the south-west. As the Cornish might have said: “Fatla genes?”"

Just on the Cornish language I recently read somewhere ( I cant recall where ) that in the 1600's traders with Brittany hired bilingual Cornish sailors as they could converse with those they traded with in Brittany. There are still about 200,000 speakers of the Breton language still living there but it is sadly declining. I have had the pleasure of visiting both Cornwall several times and Brittany once and they are well worth anyone's time.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

To quote from this item (and well worth reading through I might add)
http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/features/what-makes-british

"There have been a number of theories over the years as to what happened to the Romano-British population, says Robinson, an environmental archaeologist. One is that the Romano- British population was physically driven westwards to Cornwall and Wales out of the south-eastern and central portion of Britain which had been colonised by the Romans. “It has also been suggested that a small Anglo-Saxon elite arrived that somehow persuaded the Romano-British population to adopt their culture, customs and language,” says Robinson. Other theories have involved a virtual genocide of the Romano-Britons by the invading Anglo-Saxons."

Here's another item worth the time.
http://www.abroadintheyard.com/how-celtic-is-modern-cornish-dna/

"But just how distinct and ‘Celtic’ is the DNA of the modern day Cornish?

In 2012 a survey of the genetic ancestry of the Peoples of the British Isles (PoBI) run by Oxford scientists found that the Cornish (i.e. those living in rural areas with all four grandparents born in the same area) were among the most genetically distinct groups in the country, and were possibly even a ‘relic’ population of the first tribes to recolonise Britain after the Ice Age. They were also genetically distinct from their neighbours in Devon, and from populations in south east and central England which were described as “a real genetic cocktail” with parts of their DNA matching Anglo-Saxon and Danish Viking settlers, as well as the pre-Roman population.

The Welsh were also found to be distinct and, like the Cornish, similar to populations in north west France and Ireland, suggesting a pre-Roman connection. Curiously though, the Cornish are more genetically similar to the English than the Welsh. This points to some intermingling between the ancient Celtic and incoming Anglo-Saxon populations in the south-west. As the Cornish might have said: “Fatla genes?”"

Just on the Cornish language I recently read somewhere ( I cant recall where ) that in the 1600's traders with Brittany hired bilingual Cornish sailors as they could converse with those they traded with in Brittany. There are still about 200,000 speakers of the Breton language still living there but it is sadly declining. I have had the pleasure of visiting both Cornwall several times and Brittany once and they are well worth anyone's time.

Thanks for the response John. Kinda reinforces what I believed about the etymolgy of the Cornish. The PoBI study's bloody amazing.

 

[medusala]

Interesting discussion gents. How do the Cornish fit into this Meds?

As per John, I think there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that they remained outside the anglo saxon sphere as an independent kingdom for quite a while.

I love the Cornish accents. They sound like pirates (and who doesn't love a pasty). Tintagel is awesome as well.