Food/Supplements The bulk + cut thread

[FlowersByIrene]

ablett and FlowersByIrene getting along, I'm a fan of that

FlowersByIrene , you said that you were formally a little larger as a kid? Would you care to outline your diet/exercise habits and how you turned things around? Nothing personal, I wouldn't ask anything like that, I'm just genuinely interested in hearing about your life transformation.

Well i'm 6"5, been tall all my life.
Through highschool I was always a fat kid, was probably 90 kilos by 15. But I was playing football and rugby up until year 11 (16 years old) which kept my weight from ballooning out to 'Murica proportions. Diet was poor, lots of vegemite and butter toast after school at my grandmas, multiple soft drinks a day etc etc.
Then stopped sport for year 12, not that i studied or anything. Left school probably around 110kg at 17 years of age. After school things got pretty bad, excessive binge drinking when I turned 18, coupled with a best friend who had a ridiculously fast metabolism who would eat a lot of fast food, so I thought nothing of it and went along with him, eating KFC, Hungry Jacks almost daily (at least every day we had uni) ballooned out to 130+ kilos.

Finally decided to make a change around March of 2012
Originally started sporadically going to the gym, trying to eat better but failing.
In around august 2012, had my friend (the one who eat fast food with me) join the gym with me, having a partner is an absolute necessity. Started going to the gym 6 times a week, focusing on bodybuilding style weight lifting. Started counting calories, restricted my diet to 2000 calories a day. Ended up in March of 2013 at around 88 kilos.

So that was in March, bulked back up pretty hard since then, currently 2 weeks into a twelve week cut, will post results at the end of the cut.

How i turned things around was basically being tired of living the way I was and dedication to the gym, 6-7 days a week, started enjoying lifting, started seeing results. Gym time took away form time spent doing things like xbox like i used to, which led to better eating habits etc.

basically just dedication, unlimited dedication to picking things up and putting them down.

 

[Jab]

Looking good FlowersByIrene I'm happy to see you turn your life around

 

[evo]

My prime focus is strength. Best way to add strength is to add size. So i bulk for 6-8 months of the year, then cut/lean up for 3-4 months. Maintain for 1-2 months.

When i'm bulking i eat generally healthy, but if i want to go out for a restaurant meal i will. If i want to have dessert or eat icecream i will. If i cbf cooking and want to order a pizza or cook oven baked food i will. This fits well with my lifestyle as i don't want to be on a permanent 365 day (slow/lean bulk) diet. Also doesn't fit into your stereotype of a eat everything in sight diet. It's easy to dismiss argument when using the absolute upper extreme as part of your argument.

While i'm bulking my strength goes through the roof. I get weekly progression on all my lifts or at worst every second week.

.

It seems to work for you, and you obviously know what you are doing.

I notice you spend 1-2 months on maintenance. How do your lifts go during that period?

I think that is why i've really like IF. You can pretty much not have to worry about the odd take-out meal but still maintain regular body fat % and still make muscle gainz. Plus it seems to be good for health and longevity.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Wowee great effot FlowersByIrene.

 

[evo]

Wowee great effot FlowersByIrene.

yeah, great effort. Respekt.

It's great to see people take control of their lives, rather than blame society, work hours, Mcdonalds or whatever.

 

[cptkirk]

i'm not big on 12 week cut/bulks either

i think you're better off doing 1 for a month strict then taking 2 - 4 weeks to stabilise everything then going again

and is it a cut if you're going from 150kgs to 100kgs? surely not...i really hate that term...both of them actually

 

[saj_21]

sub'd

I'm currently experimenting with;

Week one - 260-270g protein, fats 50g - 60g carbs 30-40g so around 1610-1780 calories and restrict my eating to 8 hours a day so 16/8 IF protocol

Week two - 270g-280g, fats 60-70g, carbs 240-250g so around 2580-2750 calories, split up into 3 meals and 3 snacks

Week three - repeat week one

Week four - repeat week two.....so on so forth

Started off at 85.9kg, dropped 1.9kg affter low carb, went back up to 86.4kg after high carb. Hoping to build muscle and drop body fat.

Going on holidays for 4 weeks in October......when i get back, from cup weekend to Christmas i will do Lyle McDonalds - ultimate diet 2.0

 

[lysp]

The traditionl bulk n Cut as used by body builders in the past was, in their off season they would eat as many calories daily as possible until the reached their weight , then would would restrict their cals by x amount a week leading up to their next comp.
I wouldn't associate the term Bulking when only increasing your daily cals by 500.

I think that's where the problem lies. There seems to be a difference in definition of what bulk/cut is.

Pro-bb's follow that eat-everything diet because they are experts (or have expert coaches) to assist with their pre-contest diet. Plus have a lot of drugs to assist with their cut.

The more common definition of bulk/cut (which i subscribe to), is more having distinct phases of dieting. Rather than slowly gain over time i have a specific bulking period and a specific cutting period. There is a big difference in what i eat in those periods and calorie levels too.

So bulking at +500 does fit definition of bulking i gave, but using an extreme edge-case definition it doesnt fall under yours.

I haven't visited a main stream bodybuilding site for years due to all the out of date bro-science that influence people like yourself, I do my own research & don't rely on others information.
Most bodybuilding sites are full of steroid users so their diets & results are misleading.

While there is a lot of crap on those sites, there is also a lot of good information. You just need to work out who to listen to and take different peoples opinions with differing levels of caution.

There are some experts of give really good, informed and scientifically backed advice (layne norton, lyle mcdonald, martin berkhan). Most of what i learnt about nutrition has been based on reading hundreds if not thousands of articles over the last few years and combining all that together to come to an informed opinion. Basically just reading what the experts say, reading questions people asked about things. Looked up people's progress of following those methods. Looked up studies that are cited and try and understand them.

Also while there are a lot of steroid users on those sites, the steroid advice is normally limited to certain sub-forums and anyone giving advice will normally preface it by saying this was intended for someone who's using rather than a natural trainer. I also wouldn't say that it's the norm either.

It seems to work for you, and you obviously know what you are doing.

I notice you spend 1-2 months on maintenance. How do your lifts go during that period?

I think that is why i've really like IF. You can pretty much not have to worry about the odd take-out meal but still maintain regular body fat % and still make muscle gainz. Plus it seems to be good for health and longevity.

The 1-2 months maintenance is due to lifestyle. Basically Dec/Jan. Around that time there is a lot of partying, christmas parties, bbqs, etc. So essentially i'm still on a cutting diet mostly, but due to the excess calories from slightly less strict eating regime i end up maintaining weight instead of dropping.

Lifts usually stay pretty stable (similar to my cut).

i'm not big on 12 week cut/bulks either

i think you're better off doing 1 for a month strict then taking 2 - 4 weeks to stabilise everything then going again

I don't really agree to short cycles either. Takes a little while for your body to adjust to each phase, so most people end up gaining/losing mostly water during short bursts like that.

If you only have 6-8kg to lose during a cut though, then a 12 week cut is definitely doable though. Bulk/gain phase is better than longer you can keep it up.

 

[cptkirk]

i'm FOR short cycles

 

[ablett]

Well i'm 6"5, been tall all my life.
Through highschool I was always a fat kid, was probably 90 kilos by 15. But I was playing football and rugby up until year 11 (16 years old) which kept my weight from ballooning out to 'Murica proportions. Diet was poor, lots of vegemite and butter toast after school at my grandmas, multiple soft drinks a day etc etc.
Then stopped sport for year 12, not that i studied or anything. Left school probably around 110kg at 17 years of age. After school things got pretty bad, excessive binge drinking when I turned 18, coupled with a best friend who had a ridiculously fast metabolism who would eat a lot of fast food, so I thought nothing of it and went along with him, eating KFC, Hungry Jacks almost daily (at least every day we had uni) ballooned out to 130+ kilos.

Finally decided to make a change around March of 2012
Originally started sporadically going to the gym, trying to eat better but failing.
In around august 2012, had my friend (the one who eat fast food with me) join the gym with me, having a partner is an absolute necessity. Started going to the gym 6 times a week, focusing on bodybuilding style weight lifting. Started counting calories, restricted my diet to 2000 calories a day. Ended up in March of 2013 at around 88 kilos.

So that was in March, bulked back up pretty hard since then, currently 2 weeks into a twelve week cut, will post results at the end of the cut.

How i turned things around was basically being tired of living the way I was and dedication to the gym, 6-7 days a week, started enjoying lifting, started seeing results. Gym time took away form time spent doing things like xbox like i used to, which led to better eating habits etc.

basically just dedication, unlimited dedication to picking things up and putting them down.

Pretty impressive transformation , congrats, you've gone from someone you'd see in beauty & the geek to the Batchelar!

Fine tune your diet &'you'll be surprised what difference it makes.

 

[ablett]

ablett and FlowersByIrene getting along, I'm a fan of that

FlowersByIrene , you said that you were formally a little larger as a kid? Would you care to outline your diet/exercise habits and how you turned things around? Nothing personal, I wouldn't ask anything like that, (I don't even post my profile ) I'm just genuinely interested in hearing about your life transformation.

Mate I can get along with everyone, except the mother in-law!

 

[WeetBixKid]

Nice transformation

 

[mcuzzy]

For starters bulking then cutting was debunked years ago, well from people in the know it was, probably not for a lot of you that read Ironmag or Muscle & Fitness!

Why put on ten kilo of fluid weight & look n feel terrible to then go thru the riggers of cutting to loose it & maybe hold an extra kilo of muscle when you could've put a kilo of lean muscle doing what you were already doing?

All it does is stuff your hormones & thyroid.
Cutting/ low cal diets are bad for you in the long run.

Eat for maintenance or energy requirements.
Eat a bit more if wanting to grow.
Exercise more if your wanting to loose weight with maybe one or two lower cal days.

Bulking then cutting is bro science at its best!

I'm pretty sure Richmond FC did this with Brandon Ellis. Brandon said in an article that he was eating heaps to gain size and then when he'd gained enough strength he still ate heaps but the club had him do more high intensity cardio.

 

[Eastie Boi]

Do you read what you post?
This is a diet & nutrition thread, its not a McDonalds forum & I'm preaching the members to switch to salad.

Correct, not everyone wants to be healthy or look good but then I suspect they wouldn't be involved in threads like this mixing with people that aspire to improve their health through diet practises & exercise.

I never referred to , Lean Bulk, you either build lean muscle mass or bulk body size.
Only copious amounts of illegal substances will allow you to build noticeable larger body mass that is lean muscle.

Your out of touch with your comment of, Every body builder on the planet bulks n cuts, I speak to pro body builders regularly & none of them or their peers do the traditional bulking phase then cutting phase.
In fact they haven't so since the 90's, they realised that cardio n low calorie protocols burns too much hard earned muscle, plus with the new era of substances they have access to the can build consistent amounts of lean muscle all year round without having to bulk n cut.
Also to for fill the demands of their sponsors, they are on the road a lot doing supplement expo's, seminars etc...
This doesn't allow them to let go of their ripped lean muscular appearance to go thru the traditional bulking phase,
a big fat puffy body builder isn't going to be a good endorsement for supplements to the general consumer.
And pro body builders need sponsorship from supplements companies to fund their substance habit.

I can find about a dozen that are 10-12kg heavier in their off season which would suggest a bulk/cut method
And that will be the end of my discussion in this argument cos otherwise I don't really give a s**t.

I enjoy pizza and ice cream too much
#yolo

 

[Poetic Justice]

Well i'm 6"5, been tall all my life.
Through highschool I was always a fat kid, was probably 90 kilos by 15. But I was playing football and rugby up until year 11 (16 years old) which kept my weight from ballooning out to 'Murica proportions. Diet was poor, lots of vegemite and butter toast after school at my grandmas, multiple soft drinks a day etc etc.
Then stopped sport for year 12, not that i studied or anything. Left school probably around 110kg at 17 years of age. After school things got pretty bad, excessive binge drinking when I turned 18, coupled with a best friend who had a ridiculously fast metabolism who would eat a lot of fast food, so I thought nothing of it and went along with him, eating KFC, Hungry Jacks almost daily (at least every day we had uni) ballooned out to 130+ kilos.

Finally decided to make a change around March of 2012
Originally started sporadically going to the gym, trying to eat better but failing.
In around august 2012, had my friend (the one who eat fast food with me) join the gym with me, having a partner is an absolute necessity. Started going to the gym 6 times a week, focusing on bodybuilding style weight lifting. Started counting calories, restricted my diet to 2000 calories a day. Ended up in March of 2013 at around 88 kilos.

So that was in March, bulked back up pretty hard since then, currently 2 weeks into a twelve week cut, will post results at the end of the cut.

How i turned things around was basically being tired of living the way I was and dedication to the gym, 6-7 days a week, started enjoying lifting, started seeing results. Gym time took away form time spent doing things like xbox like i used to, which led to better eating habits etc.

basically just dedication, unlimited dedication to picking things up and putting them down.

Awesome work mate!

 

[mcuzzy]

I can find about a dozen that are 10-12kg heavier in their off season which would suggest a bulk/cut method
And that will be the end of my discussion in this argument cos otherwise I don't really give a s**t.

I enjoy pizza and ice cream too much
#yolo

I eat pizza and ice cream while maintaining.

I look like a kenyan marathon runner though so doesn't really make a difference

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I eat pizza and ice cream while maintaining.

I look like a kenyan marathon runner though so doesn't really make a difference

You need to eat more of it then

 

[Shupe]

I look like a kenyan marathon runner though so doesn't really make a difference

Welcome to the club!

 

[Jab]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/9/2...es-moments-before-shootos-weigh-ins-in-brazil

MMA fighter dies moments before Shooto’s weigh-ins in Brazil

MMA fighter Leandro "Feijao" Souza (1-1), a member of Nova Uniao and Delfim Cacadores, died on Thursday while cutting weight for Friday's Shoot Brazil 43 card in Rio de Janeiro. The 26-year-old fighter, who was slated to fight Gabriel Brasil (1-1) in flyweight action, was cutting the final two pounds for the official weigh-ins when he passed out, and his death was confirmed moments later.

Flyweight in this comp is 123 pounds (55.8kgs) and he had 900 grams more to cut, if this report is correct.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Ablett - has this perception that peoples goals in life are to be healthy, preaches a rediculous diet to obtain "healthiness". A diet that realistically, for the cost of products (all unique healthfoods are rediculously expensive because of lower demand), and effort put into it, would give minimal advantages in health. It's simply not worth it.
Then you come out and claim that cutting and bulking is brosicence, now I'm calling you out on this because its simply not true. You are so arrogant in your preaching of your way of lifr that you think that people's main focus is to be healthy and to have a decent physique to goo along with that. And for that purpose, yes a "lean bulk" (which is a bullshit term because a calorie is a calorie, there is no such thing as a lean bulk, a lean bulk is where someone doesnt have the dedication to eat enough or excercises too much and they just meander along somedays in a surplus somedays negative somedays at maintenance which reuslts in SLOW muscles gain? Or as some call it a "lean bulk") but yes a "lean bulk" will leave you with a "healthy looking" phsyique over time that wont turn heads and will garner reactions such as "wow you keep fit". But bulking is entirely neccesary for people who don't want to waste years and years going up by a kilogram this year or a pound the next. By bulking, and bulking hard for a long time, you are basically giving your body the best chance to build muscle. You are providing your body enough energy to not only get stronger which will help you get bigger but enough energy to force your body to grow. It will gain fat as well, that is natural as you are in a constant surplus, but you will be building muscle as well, more so than just eating healthy as you preach.
The fact of the matter is every bodybuilder on the planet bulks and cuts, because it works, because they dont want to wait 8 years to have a physique that due to the steroid induced fitness industry appears mediocre.

I don't know how many people in this thread are going for the "healthy look" but anyone talking about bulking and cutting is either going for something a lot better than that, or they don't know what theyre talking about.
I'm fine for you to preach your "health" to those that are searching for it, but don't project that onto people with different goals.

When you hit fifty cardio fitness has got to be a priority - so I will take the lean bulk thanks

 

[Contra Mundum]

It seems to work for you, and you obviously know what you are doing.

I notice you spend 1-2 months on maintenance. How do your lifts go during that period?

I think that is why i've really like IF. You can pretty much not have to worry about the odd take-out meal but still maintain regular body fat % and still make muscle gainz. Plus it seems to be good for health and longevity.

Yeh I used to live with a pretty hard core weight trainer at Uni and he would give me this shits with his inflexible eating rules. Even on bullshit shows like the Biggest Loser they suggest a cheat day - the people that are working out regularly are not the ones who are only drinking Coke over any other liquid

 

[CourtzMajora]

I'm currently 56kg and am wanting to put on size, been weighing up doing a bulk but not really sure if it will benefit me. I have put on 4kg of muscle in a year from eating healthy/more meals and doing heavy weight training.

Is it worth it? Will I see better results then what I'm already doing?

 

[swifty]

I'm currently 56kg and am wanting to put on size, been weighing up doing a bulk but not really sure if it will benefit me. I have put on 4kg of muscle in a year from eating healthy/more meals and doing heavy weight training.

Is it worth it? Will I see better results then what I'm already doing?

workout your calorie maintenance, eat 500 calories above it. if you find that your putting on more fat than you would like, just cut it back to say 300 calories above maintenance.

4kgs of muscle a year is great by the way

 

[Nadia Tyis]

Well i'm 6"5, been tall all my life.
Through highschool I was always a fat kid, was probably 90 kilos by 15. But I was playing football and rugby up until year 11 (16 years old) which kept my weight from ballooning out to 'Murica proportions. Diet was poor, lots of vegemite and butter toast after school at my grandmas, multiple soft drinks a day etc etc.
Then stopped sport for year 12, not that i studied or anything. Left school probably around 110kg at 17 years of age. After school things got pretty bad, excessive binge drinking when I turned 18, coupled with a best friend who had a ridiculously fast metabolism who would eat a lot of fast food, so I thought nothing of it and went along with him, eating KFC, Hungry Jacks almost daily (at least every day we had uni) ballooned out to 130+ kilos.

Finally decided to make a change around March of 2012
Originally started sporadically going to the gym, trying to eat better but failing.
In around august 2012, had my friend (the one who eat fast food with me) join the gym with me, having a partner is an absolute necessity. Started going to the gym 6 times a week, focusing on bodybuilding style weight lifting. Started counting calories, restricted my diet to 2000 calories a day. Ended up in March of 2013 at around 88 kilos.

So that was in March, bulked back up pretty hard since then, currently 2 weeks into a twelve week cut, will post results at the end of the cut.

How i turned things around was basically being tired of living the way I was and dedication to the gym, 6-7 days a week, started enjoying lifting, started seeing results. Gym time took away form time spent doing things like xbox like i used to, which led to better eating habits etc.

basically just dedication, unlimited dedication to picking things up and putting them down.

After reading your post and specially what inspires me was your pics,, I truly appreciate and admire your true effort to cut down your heavy weight I guess that's called a Man!!
It seems like you are stubborn in nature,,
Here.

 

[saj_21]

After some advice from people who have done a successful cut.

How much did you cut your calories by?
How many days a week would you be in this deficit?
How often would you refeed?
How do you split your macros?
What splits would you do and what rep ranges?

Thanks.