Scape Goat The Cam Guthrie Echo Chamber

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catscollector

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Menegola probably half a length in front of the other two at the moment.
Duncan's been solid too.
Goes under the radar a bit. Probably our most important player now. We have seen how we perform without Hawkins (6W-3L the last five seasons), whereas with Duncan, we lose a lot more games without any outside polish when he is missing.
 

iameviljez

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Duncan's been solid too.
Goes under the radar a bit. Probably our most important player now. We have seen how we perform without Hawkins (6W-3L the last five seasons), whereas with Duncan, we lose a lot more games without any outside polish when he is missing.
I still think that Hawkins is the one irreplaceable player in the lineup, stats perhaps don’t tell the full story. Our game is built around marking and he is still the best 1 on 1 mark in the league
 

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Wojcinski

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The process of being dropped made Mackie a better player, which he himself admits.

While our MC accept his mediocrity Guthrie will never offer any more, he'll never become anything more than below average.
There should be no slowing players like Constable down at the expense of a 'never gonna be anything but average' softy like Guthrie coming in. It's detrimental to developing the best side possible. Guthrie has had more opportunity than most to show what he can can't do.
So i have thoughts on Guth and I've watched him closely the last few weeks, he is such a frustrating player as he actually is very important for our side with how we are playing currently.. He works hard when we have the ball to get free and into a position to be a link in the chain... The problem with this is that also gets a lot of cheap not overly dangerous ball that are kicks from half back.. And he takes a safe option going short most of the time as well... When we are under the pump this is exaggerated as he doesn't take risk.. When we are playing well he looks more dangerous because generally the side has more space and freedom when the side is playing well.

He's never going to win a B&F or be a top 10 player in the side, but he's not really the devil some here make out either.

I'd love to see him be smarter though when we don't have it, he rolls the dice and pushes forward too often which looks great if we win it but looks awful if we don't, it's why at times he can be seen to be trailing a player from a stoppage and not appearing to be trying.. He's out of the contest the moment it goes against us. Him even just taking the defensive position a bit more would make a world of difference IMO.
Consistent contribution is a problem.

Relentless effort over the duration of 4 quarters (defensively especially) is a problem.

He sucks at both. Yes, not mildly, he's very poor at both.

Guthrie is a senior player, he plays like a < 50 game player, or worse. He performs when the wind is right. He needs to start setting standards.

Even now, people are excusing him because he had influence for a quarter... so what? He's in it for 25% of the game? He was the second lowest Champion scorer in the team last night, as a senior player who spent time in the midfield. Inexcusable.

Yeah, he performed against West Coast, a game our side controlled for the majority. His only game since 2016 where you could genuinely say he was arguably BOG.

Spud. Representative of this side and Chris Scott - flashy, soft, looks good in the right circumstances but ultimately not hard enough, don't want it bad enough and will never get there.

I feel for Dangerfield having to walk out there week after week with the likes of Guthrie and many, many others.
Imagine posting this rubbish
 

Spazz Cat

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Big congrats to Guthrie. And no need to check this thread for any comments I made about his ice cream scooping, bra wearing, homeless paddle pop lion looking antics.
Cause I obviously didn't make any.
But I truly am happy for the campaigner, even more than Tommy's Coleman.
Can still remember back to the end of 2013 and some of the efforts he put in.
Seems like a whole family that just lives for footy so it would mean a lot.
 
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Shadow89

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Suck it Guthrie haters. To us noble guardians that defended his honour and understood the team roles he was playing, undercut his offensive output - kudos. To those fools who offered nothing but vitriol and pure hyperbole with no basis in fact or reason - off to the land of obscurity and rejects you go 🙂
 
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Cataholic

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Has Guthrie deserved criticism in the past?

Absolutely.

Has Guthrie made considerable progress as a player in the last year or so?

Absolutely.

I can't see why everyone can't agree that he had some deficiencies in the past, and done extremely well to overcome them since.

I just don't understand the need for the personal point scoring undertaken in this thread. The personal attacks on Guthrie's appearance and character weren't justified, but there's nothing wrong with forming an opinion on a player's ability - based on the available evidence at the time - and then being proven wrong.

We've all had it happen to us.
 

Wojcinski

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Has Guthrie deserved criticism in the past?

Absolutely.

Has Guthrie made considerable progress as a player in the last year or so?

Absolutely.

I can't see why everyone can't agree that he had some deficiencies in the past, and done extremely well to overcome them since.

I just don't understand the need for the personal point scoring undertaken in this thread. The personal attacks on Guthrie's appearance and character weren't justified, but there's nothing wrong with forming an opinion on a player's ability - based on the available evidence at the time - and then being proven wrong.

We've all had it happen to us.
Because if you read what I quoted in my previous post, people were saying he would never amount to anything
 

Cataholic

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Imagine posting this rubbish
I'm going to defend Willo here. One of the better, respected posters who graced this site, and who unfortunately appears to no longer contribute. Shame.

Willo made a call based on his judgement of the available evidence at the time, and there's no shame in that. Guthrie has improved considerably since then, and Willo would be the first to acknowledge that.
 

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Spazz Cat

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I'm going to defend Willo here. One of the better, respected posters who graced this site, and who unfortunately appears to no longer contribute. Shame.

Willo made a call based on his judgement of the available evidence at the time, and there's no shame in that. Guthrie has improved considerably since then, and Willo would be the first to acknowledge that.
No need to defend anyone. Who gives a f**k.
If you think someone is playing sh*t, nothing wrong with giving your opinion on an opinion site.
 

Shadow89

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Has Guthrie deserved criticism in the past?

Absolutely.

Has Guthrie made considerable progress as a player in the last year or so?

Absolutely.

I can't see why everyone can't agree that he had some deficiencies in the past, and done extremely well to overcome them since.

I just don't understand the need for the personal point scoring undertaken in this thread. The personal attacks on Guthrie's appearance and character weren't justified, but there's nothing wrong with forming an opinion on a player's ability - based on the available evidence at the time - and then being proven wrong.

We've all had it happen to us.
See this is one of my pet peeves - people saying he's 'improved considerably', when he's just finally being played in his correct position that he was drafted for.

For years he was forced to play at half-back, back pocket, forward pocket, wing, defensive mid, tagger, without ever getting a full season as a no holds barred offensive mid. Kelly leaves, Sel is injured for a lot of the year/below par, Ablett and Danger stay forward, and lo and behold, Guth finally gets his chance as an offensive mid - and now he's starting AA, Top 10 in coaches votes and will be Top 3 in our B + F.

Those of us here who remained objective enough, could see that he just wasn't suited to the roles that he was playing. Last year was actually one of his best - as evidenced by an article written by Kelly in the Geelong Addy about his worth to the team through his defensive work - and this year he's got to release the shackles - like Jack Steele at St Kilda.

He has only 'improved considerably', because he's been given the license to do so. He always had the ability - as evidenced by his stellar game against WC in the Semi Final last year, when Duncan went down with injury in the Qualifying Final, and Guthrie got full-time minutes as an inside mid.

Just because someone is playing more of a team-based role - like Parf is this year, which allows Menegola, Duncan, Guth and Danger to shine - doesn't mean their output is any less. It just means, that they don't get the same plaudits, and aren't able to showcase their offensive talents. Nonetheless, their role is still vitally important, and their talent as players, unquestionable.

It's not like 'magic' that Guth has become the player he has this year, it's that he's now allowed to be that player, without the constraints of 'doing the team thing' that other players in the team have now assumed.
 

Cataholic

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See this is one of my pet peeves - people saying he's 'improved considerably', when he's just finally being played in his correct position that he was drafted for.

For years he was forced to play at half-back, back pocket, forward pocket, wing, defensive mid, tagger, without ever getting a full season as a no holds barred offensive mid. Kelly leaves, Sel is injured for a lot of the year/below par, Ablett and Danger stay forward, and lo and behold, Guth finally gets his chance as an offensive mid - and now he's starting AA, Top 10 in coaches votes and will be Top 3 in our B + F.

Those of us here who remained objective enough, could see that he just wasn't suited to the roles that he was playing. Last year was actually one of his best - as evidenced by an article written by Kelly in the Geelong Addy about his worth to the team through his defensive work - and this year he's got to release the shackles - like Jack Steele at St Kilda.

He has only 'improved considerably', because he's been given the license to do so. He always had the ability - as evidenced by his stellar game against WC in the Semi Final last year, when Duncan went down with injury in the Qualifying Final, and Guthrie got full-time minutes as an inside mid.

Just because someone is playing more of a team-based role - like Parf is this year, which allows Menegola, Duncan, Guth and Danger to shine - doesn't mean their output is any less. It just means, that they don't get the same plaudits, and aren't able to showcase their offensive talents. Nonetheless, their role is still vitally important, and their talent as players, unquestionable.

It's not like 'magic' that Guth has become the player he has this year, it's that he's now allowed to be that player, without the constraints of 'doing the team thing' that other players in the team have now assumed.
I agree that he was played out of position, and it was to his detriment.

Do I agree that he always played with the same intent and vigour that he does now? No.

But anyway, we can all agree he's now playing a vital role and the improvement is due to his positioning and maturity as a player.
 
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Spazz Cat

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I just find it petty Spazz, and I think the pettiness and sniping here may be one of the reasons Willo stopped posting.

This site is worse off for that.
He was good. I dunno why he left but I do doubt it was from people stating their opinions.
I think it's better. I didn't like that dislike button at first and still don't know how to use it, but it's good.
Instead of getting on and insulting someone if you don't agree with what they say you can just press
Nup, don't like it. No argument.
 

catempire

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No need to defend anyone. Who gives a f**k.
If you think someone is playing sh*t, nothing wrong with giving your opinion on an opinion site.
Indeed. And if you don’t like having it come back to bite you, perhaps consider that when you post in the first place. Nobody is going to hassle a reasonable opinion down the track. It’s just the sh!tposting and baseless stuff that get dredged up.
 

Cataholic

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He was good. I dunno why he left but I do doubt it was from people stating their opinions.
I think it's better. I didn't like that dislike button at first and still don't know how to use it, but it's good.
Instead of getting on and insulting someone if you don't agree with what they say you can just press
Nup, don't like it. No argument.
I very much doubt Willo left because people expressed opinions - he wasn't that thin skinned.

My sense - and I could be wrong - is that he just got to a point that he found trawling through the bitching and arguing to find sensible conversations too difficult.

I find 'ignore' a very useful function. You can weed out those that play the man, and / or those with superiority complexes.
 

Spazz Cat

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Indeed. And if you don’t like having it come back to bite you, perhaps consider that when you post in the first place. Nobody is going to hassle a reasonable opinion down the track. It’s just the sh!tposting and baseless stuff that get dredged up.
I'm definitely guilty of both. And especially on Guthrie.
But if your wrong your wrong.
And it's wrong in a good way anyway. So it's ok if plenty of people give me sh*t.
As you said, don't post it if you don't like copping it too.
 

Cataholic

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I'm definitely guilty of both. And especially on Guthrie.
But if your wrong your wrong.
And it's wrong in a good way anyway. So it's ok if plenty of people give me sh*t.
As you said, don't post it if you don't like copping it too.
It's human to make mistakes. I just don't understand the glee some derive from highlighting the error of another person, as if they're somehow immune to making mistakes themselves.

What should be called out though is any post that is derogatory of the player themselves, their character, appearance etc. That's wrong.
 

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