Science/Environment The Carbon Debate, pt III

[Power Raid]

Power costs up again despite cheaper fuel costs.

It was expected energy prices would rise with the closure of Hazelwood but the actual price increase is $130 over expectations.

As usual the poor, vulnerable and youth will pay the biggest price being hit with bills and, adding salt to the wounds, higher unemployment.

 

[Gough]

Perhaps if the government had sort of cohesive energy policy going forward companies would have confidence in investing. It's almost as if they're hobbling the renewals industry on purpose.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Power costs up again despite cheaper fuel costs.

It was expected energy prices would rise with the closure of Hazelwood but the actual price increase is $130 over expectations.

As usual the poor, vulnerable and youth will pay the biggest price being hit with bills and, adding salt to the wounds, higher unemployment.

Its nothing to do with fuel costs.
Its everything to do with supply and demand.
The old SEC had future requirements all mapped out, with a new coal station to replace Hazelwood planned to be implemented long ago.
Now Hazelwood has finally gotten too old to be worth keeping it going, and no replacement.

 

[Power Raid]

Perhaps if the government had sort of cohesive energy policy going forward companies would have confidence in investing. It's almost as if they're hobbling the renewals industry on purpose.

Hobbling the renewables industry? Big news......we don't have one!

We are simply customers buying stuff from overseas, including places with no quality control or respect for environmental standards.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Hobbling the renewables industry? Big news......we don't have one!

We are simply customers buying stuff from overseas, including places with no quality control or respect for environmental standards.

What is worse for the environment. Everything required to build one of those American planes, or everything required to build one of those solar cells?

 

[Power Raid]

Perhaps if the government had sort of cohesive energy policy going forward companies would have confidence in investing. It's almost as if they're hobbling the renewals industry on purpose.

But yes a cohesive strategy by each state would help.

The only logical solution is a quota desk, by local jurisdiction, where producers could tender to deliver quality quotas.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But yes a cohesive strategy by each state would help.

The only logical solution is a quota desk, by local jurisdiction, where producers could tender to deliver quality quotas.

People act surprised because S.A. has the worst power supply AND the highest prices. The two go hand in hand.
No-one will tender for it.
They are not even building enough cheap nasty gas turbines to keep S.A. going.

 

[Power Raid]

People act surprised because S.A. has the worst power supply AND the highest prices. The two go hand in hand.
No-one will tender for it.
They are not even building enough cheap nasty gas turbines to keep S.A. going.

SA really only has three choices for a successful future.

1) cut the state in two with the southern part becoming a part of Victoria and the northern part to the territory. By diluting the SA vote in Victoria, perhaps some common sense in democracy can deliver better results.
2) put a fence around the state and depopulate, delivering one of the world's largest nature reserves.
3) suck off every other state and hope for handouts to pay for their lifestyle choices. The submarines is a good start and the extensive ROAD infrastructure builds is another. lol.......they want green and they want highways! but not cheap power, jobs or car manufacturing (to go on their roads).


I still have a soft spot for SA but something is horribly wrong. Two of the world's most expensive buildings have been built is SA, which demonstrates everyone's nose is in the trough. This wreaks of corruption, barriers to entry and a class system ensuring the status quo. I guess keeping people desperate is a way of controlling the masses.

 

[Power Raid]

What is worse for the environment. Everything required to build one of those American planes, or everything required to build one of those solar cells?

Almost there......

the question should be: what is the cost and benefit of each activity and consider whether we are doing each activity at the highest appropriate standard.

perhaps a simple "assurance" policy where environmental impacts flow through to the hip pocket of the end user of a product. This will increase interest in how products are produced and reduce the opportunity for unscrupulous business eroding important concepts like environmental preservation. It could also be broadened to IR (workers can make claim against end users for unpaid wages and loss of rights).

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Almost there......

the question should be: what is the cost and benefit of each activity and consider whether we are doing each activity at the highest appropriate standard.

perhaps a simple "assurance" policy where environmental impacts flow through to the hip pocket of the end user of a product. This will increase interest in how products are produced and reduce the opportunity for unscrupulous business eroding important concepts like environmental preservation. It could also be broadened to IR (workers can make claim against end users for unpaid wages and loss of rights).

What?
You've lost me.
I'm gonna assume its the plane that is a lot worse than a solar cell.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What?
You've lost me.
I'm gonna assume its the plane that is a lot worse than a solar cell.

There may be more than 1:1 ratio of solar cells to american planes. Just saying.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

There may be more than 1:1 ratio of solar cells to american planes. Just saying.

It would be infinity: 0 wouldn't it?

 

[blured]

Shame our current government lacks the foresight and ability to do anything about it.

 

[Gough]

Shame our current government lacks the foresight and ability to do anything about it.

It's not that they lack the foresight, and ability to do it, they just don't want to, and it would upset those whose interests they are beholden to too much.

 

[Power Raid]

It's not that they lack the foresight, and ability to do it, they just don't want to, and it would upset those whose interests they are beholden to too much.

And which interest is that? The coal union?

Or the "I would like a job one day" movement?

 

[Bleeeeeeeeep]

http://media.bom.gov.au/releases/333/2016-a-year-of-extreme-weather-events/

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Shame our current government lacks the foresight and ability to do anything about it.

Shame we have successive governments that lack the foresight and ability to do anything .
There seems to be a consensus that we shouldn't do anything in Australia, because we will live better by getting it cheaper from overseas , using the money that was generated when we used to do stuff.

 

[Power Raid]

Shame we have successive governments that lack the foresight and ability to do anything .
There seems to be a consensus that we shouldn't do anything in Australia, because we will live better by getting it cheaper from overseas , using the money that was generated when we used to do stuff.

To be fair, that's the problem caused by consumers rather than the government.

Do you ban discount airlines and other cheap products and tell poor consumers they can't have access to services enjoyed by the wealthy parts of the community?

In a way it is the poor getting back at the middle class for locking them out of work with the minimum wage. One is undercutting the other.

 

[Watchyourwaite]

In a way it is the poor getting back at the middle class for locking them out of work with the minimum wage.

That is the craziest thing ive ever read.

 

[blured]

Shame we have successive governments that lack the foresight and ability to do anything .
There seems to be a consensus that we shouldn't do anything in Australia, because we will live better by getting it cheaper from overseas , using the money that was generated when we used to do stuff.

I think we should be throwing some decent money into r&d for 3d printing particularly engineering / medicine type enterprise etc. Tesla gigafactoty looks like its up and running we should be following his lead.

 

[Power Raid]

That is the craziest thing ive ever read.

Do you agree that the minimum wage cuts people out of employment?

Do you agree that buying the cheapest dirtiest import, rather than observing minimum standards, undermines established economies?

 

[Power Raid]

I think we should be throwing some decent money into r&d for 3d printing particularly engineering / medicine type enterprise etc. Tesla gigafactoty looks like its up and running we should be following his lead.

We already are.

A house was printed by a 3D printer here in Perth (bibra lake).

It should be commercial this year or next

 

[Watchyourwaite]

We already are.

A house was printed by a 3D printer here in Perth (bibra lake).

It should be commercial this year or next

No fricken way?

 

[Watchyourwaite]

Do you agree that the minimum wage cuts people out of employment?

No i dont. The minimum wage helps people afford a living.

Do you agree that buying the cheapest dirtiest import, rather than observing minimum standards, undermines established economies?

I also dont agree with this. We do have minimum standards, and we cant import otherwise.
China is in big trouble at the moment for sneaking s**t metal passed us. It didnt undermine our economy.

 

[Power Raid]

No i dont. The minimum wage helps people afford a living.


I also dont agree with this. We do have minimum standards, and we cant import otherwise.
China is in big trouble at the moment for sneaking s**t metal passed us. It didnt undermine our economy.

I didn't ask whether the minimum wage was good or bad, nor did I ask whether is helps people afford a living. The question is simply, does the minimum wage lock people out of work........ie the unemployed.

So cheap imports like the steel you mentioned doesn't displace steel from other markets. By your theory, cheap international discount airlines don't affect Qantas?