Science/Environment The Carbon Debate, pt III

[Tas]

Maybe but its still not analogous.
A lot of the infamous "cloud over asia " can be attributed to wood fires, and small 2 stroke motorcycles.
Its relatively easy to address that sort of pollution.
Its not so easy to address the main ingredient of the C+O2 = C02 reaction.

We don't need to guess.

"Provincial aggregated CO2 emissions increased from 3 billion tons in 2000 to 10 billion tons in 2016. During the period, Shandong province contributed most to national emissions, followed by Liaoning, Hebei, and Shanxi provinces. Most of the CO2 emissions were from raw coal, which is primarily burned in the manufacturing and the thermal power sectors.

Significant differences exist among provinces in terms of CO2 emissions. Analyses of per capita emissions and emission intensity indicate that provinces located in the northwest and north had higher per capita CO2 emissions and greater emission intensities than the central and southeast coastal regions. Developing areas have intensive resource use 2 Pre-Workshop Background Readings on Climate Strategies Post-COP21 and Sustainable Economies in Europe and their economic structure is dominated by heavy industries with higher sectoral emission intensity. These areas contribute to most of the growth in national emissions and are the main drivers of China’s carbon intensive economic structure."

http://www.belfercenter.org/sites/d...les/China Carbon Emissions 2016 final web.pdf

"The “non-metal and metal production,” “smelting and machinery,” and “power generation” sectors are three main contributors to total carbon emission."

We can assume wood fires and 2-stroke bikes aren't the major problem. Yes, industries put out a lot more pollutants than just carbon.

Anyway, that report is an interesting read about the problems China faces.

 

[blured]

Enjoying the nsw heatwave folks ?

How many temperature records broken ?

 

[CD Xbow]

I thought this was very interesting insight into the mindset of an American conservatives, this is Bob Inglis, a republican, who eventually saw the light and realised the science was right:

"I didn't really know anything about it except that Al Gore was for it and, as I represented one of the most conservative districts in the most conservative states in America, that was really the end of the inquiry," he says.

Unfortunately, he also got the arse by Tea Party members once he accepted the evidence. No place for truth on the right perhaps. It's an interesting and scary sort of mindset. Doesn't matter what the truth is, if the other side say it's true then it's a lie.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We don't need to guess.

"Provincial aggregated CO2 emissions increased from 3 billion tons in 2000 to 10 billion tons in 2016. During the period, Shandong province contributed most to national emissions, followed by Liaoning, Hebei, and Shanxi provinces. Most of the CO2 emissions were from raw coal, which is primarily burned in the manufacturing and the thermal power sectors.

Significant differences exist among provinces in terms of CO2 emissions. Analyses of per capita emissions and emission intensity indicate that provinces located in the northwest and north had higher per capita CO2 emissions and greater emission intensities than the central and southeast coastal regions. Developing areas have intensive resource use 2 Pre-Workshop Background Readings on Climate Strategies Post-COP21 and Sustainable Economies in Europe and their economic structure is dominated by heavy industries with higher sectoral emission intensity. These areas contribute to most of the growth in national emissions and are the main drivers of China’s carbon intensive economic structure."

http://www.belfercenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/files/China Carbon Emissions 2016 final web.pdf

"The “non-metal and metal production,” “smelting and machinery,” and “power generation” sectors are three main contributors to total carbon emission."

We can assume wood fires and 2-stroke bikes aren't the major problem. Yes, industries put out a lot more pollutants than just carbon.

Anyway, that report is an interesting read about the problems China faces.

Once again you are confusing the issues.
I did not say that motorcycles and wood fires were the cause of CO2 emissions.
The poisoning of the air and population is NOT caused by CO2.
However yes!. Unbridled burning of coal can be a major factor. Look at Germany, they clean most of the nasty's out of their massive coal exhausts. But the CO2 remains.

 

[medusala]

In the end you'll hold on for dear life to your paranoid delusions in the face of all evidence and reality, whilst I'll be guided by the scientific consensus.

Lol, you are clinging to the scientific consensus meme like a drunk to a bottle of brandy. There is no consensus re AGW armageddon, merely of the greenhouse effect.

Two entirely different things.

 

[Lebbo73]

From my Facebook feed.........

The hottest day on record?
Not 2010, BUT 1828 at a blistering 53.9 °C
Back before man-made climate change was frying Australia, when CO2 was around 300ppm, the continent savoured an ideal pre-industrial climate…….. RIGHT?
This is the kind of climate we are spending $10bn per annum to get back to….. Right again?
We are told today’s climate has more records and more extremes than times gone by, but the few records we have from the early 1800’s are eye-popping.
Things were not just hotter, but so wildly hot it burst thermometers.
The earliest temperature records we have show that Australia was a land of shocking heatwaves and droughts, except for when it was bitterly cold or raging in flood.

In other words, nothing has changed, except possibly things might not be quite so hot now!
Silliggy (Lance Pidgeon) has been researching records from early explorers and from newspapers.
What he’s uncovered is fascinating! It’s as if history is being erased!

For all that we hear about recent record-breaking climate extremes, records that are equally extreme, and sometimes even more so, are ignored.

In January 1896 a savage blast “like a furnace” stretched across Australia from east to west and lasted for weeks.
The death toll reached 437 people in the eastern states.
Newspaper reports showed that in Bourke the heat approached 120°F (48.9°C) on three days.
Links to documentary evidence (1)(2)(3)
The maximum at or above 102 degrees F (38.9°C) for 24 days straight!
Use the several links below to read the news reports at the time for yourself ……
1. By Tuesday Jan 14, people were reported falling deadin the streets.
2. Unable to sleep, people in Brewarrina walked the streets at night for hours, thermometers recorded109F at midnight.
3. Overnight, the temperature did not fall below 103°F.
4. On Jan 18 in Wilcannia, five deaths were recorded in one day, the hospitals were overcrowdedand reports said that “more deaths are hourly expected”.
5. By January 24, in Bourke, many businesses had shut down (almost everything bar the hotels).
6. Panic stricken Australians were fleeing to the hills in climate refugee trains.

As reported at the time, the government felt the situation was so serious that to save lives and ease the suffering of its citizens they added cheaper train services:
What I found most interesting about this was the skill, dedication and length of meteorological data taken in the 1800′s. When our climate is “the most important moral challenge” why is it there is so little interest in our longest and oldest data?
Who knew that one of the most meticulous and detailed temperature records in the world from the 1800′s comes from Adelaide, largely thanks to Sir Charles Todd.

The West Terrace site in Adelaide was one of the best in the world at the time, and provides accurate historic temperatures from “Australia’s first permanent weather bureau at Adelaide in 1856″.

Rainfall records even appear to go as far back as 1839. Lance Pidgeon went delving into the National Archives and was surprised at what he found.
The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia.
The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century.
See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s.
You can’t blame those high records on man-made global warming!

 

[blured]

From my Facebook feed.........

The hottest day on record?
Not 2010, BUT 1828 at a blistering 53.9 °C
Back before man-made climate change was frying Australia, when CO2 was around 300ppm, the continent savoured an ideal pre-industrial climate…….. RIGHT?
This is the kind of climate we are spending $10bn per annum to get back to….. Right again?
We are told today’s climate has more records and more extremes than times gone by, but the few records we have from the early 1800’s are eye-popping.
Things were not just hotter, but so wildly hot it burst thermometers.
The earliest temperature records we have show that Australia was a land of shocking heatwaves and droughts, except for when it was bitterly cold or raging in flood.

In other words, nothing has changed, except possibly things might not be quite so hot now!
Silliggy (Lance Pidgeon) has been researching records from early explorers and from newspapers.
What he’s uncovered is fascinating! It’s as if history is being erased!

For all that we hear about recent record-breaking climate extremes, records that are equally extreme, and sometimes even more so, are ignored.

In January 1896 a savage blast “like a furnace” stretched across Australia from east to west and lasted for weeks.
The death toll reached 437 people in the eastern states.
Newspaper reports showed that in Bourke the heat approached 120°F (48.9°C) on three days.
Links to documentary evidence (1)(2)(3)
The maximum at or above 102 degrees F (38.9°C) for 24 days straight!
Use the several links below to read the news reports at the time for yourself ……
1. By Tuesday Jan 14, people were reported falling deadin the streets.
2. Unable to sleep, people in Brewarrina walked the streets at night for hours, thermometers recorded109F at midnight.
3. Overnight, the temperature did not fall below 103°F.
4. On Jan 18 in Wilcannia, five deaths were recorded in one day, the hospitals were overcrowdedand reports said that “more deaths are hourly expected”.
5. By January 24, in Bourke, many businesses had shut down (almost everything bar the hotels).
6. Panic stricken Australians were fleeing to the hills in climate refugee trains.

As reported at the time, the government felt the situation was so serious that to save lives and ease the suffering of its citizens they added cheaper train services:
What I found most interesting about this was the skill, dedication and length of meteorological data taken in the 1800′s. When our climate is “the most important moral challenge” why is it there is so little interest in our longest and oldest data?
Who knew that one of the most meticulous and detailed temperature records in the world from the 1800′s comes from Adelaide, largely thanks to Sir Charles Todd.

The West Terrace site in Adelaide was one of the best in the world at the time, and provides accurate historic temperatures from “Australia’s first permanent weather bureau at Adelaide in 1856″.

Rainfall records even appear to go as far back as 1839. Lance Pidgeon went delving into the National Archives and was surprised at what he found.
The media are in overdrive, making out that “the extreme heat is the new normal” in Australia.
The Great Australian Heatwave of January 2013 didn’t push the mercury above 50C at any weather station in Australia, yet it’s been 50C (122F) and hotter in many inland towns across Australia over the past century.
See how many are in the late 1800′s and early to mid 1900′s.
You can’t blame those high records on man-made global warming!

Face book s**t posting how quaint

 

[SaintsSeptember]

But high temperature only matters in Sydney , that's why we keep hearing about it.
45.7 the other day.
45.3 nearly 100 years ago.
So its gone up half a degree
Of course we have no idea how hot it got there until a couple of hundred years ago.
Melbourne's hottest : 47.2 ( Maybe ) 1851
46.4 2009
45.6 1939

None of which is even relevant to global warming.

Even England only has official records since 1914. I guess that before that all we had was
"On this day his majesty the king did declareth it to be *&%$ing Hot "

 

[igon value]

It could be 50 degrees in the middle of winter and science denialers will still recall when it was 60 degrees in the middle of July in 1955.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It could be 50 degrees in the middle of winter and science denialers will still recall when it was 60 degrees in the middle of July in 1955.

Local weather effects are not relevant to the science.
Neither is someone from Melbourne posting "enjoying the heat wave" when there isn't one in Melbourne.
Statistically its relevant, but saying "gee its hot today , i side with the science " simply shows that you don't understand any of the science you preach.

 

[igon value]

Local weather effects are not relevant to the science.
Neither is someone from Melbourne posting "enjoying the heat wave" when there isn't one in Melbourne.
Statistically its relevant, but saying "gee its hot today , i side with the science " simply shows that you don't understand any of the science you preach.

And yet science denialists also deny the science.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

And yet science denialists also deny the science.

I guess being science denialists they'd have to.

 

[Malifice]

Enjoying the nsw heatwave folks ?

How many temperature records broken ?

And now a message from our fossil fuel sponsors:

 

[Lebbo73]

And now a message from our fossil fuel sponsors:

Was this recorded in South Australia?

 

[Malifice]

Was this recorded in South Australia?

Lebbo, whats your actual position on anthropomorphic climate change?

1) Its happening, but is good for us.
2) Its happening, but there is nothing we can do about it.
3) Its happening, but the economic benefits of fossil fuels outweigh the costs of stopping it
4) Its not happening. Lizard people conspiracy/ false flag/ fake news/ New world order/ leftist or Jewish plot.
5) Other (explain)

Im genuinely curious. You seem to have softened your denial lately.

 

[igon value]

I guess being science denialists they'd have to.

Yes, you do.

Bit hypocritical to say something isn't science when at the same time you deny the actual science.

 

[Lebbo73]

Lebbo, whats your actual position on anthropomorphic climate change?

1) Its happening, but is good for us.
2) Its happening, but there is nothing we can do about it.
3) Its happening, but the economic benefits of fossil fuels outweigh the costs of stopping it
4) Its not happening. Lizard people conspiracy/ false flag/ fake news/ New world order/ leftist or Jewish plot.
5) Other (explain)

Im genuinely curious. You seem to have softened your denial lately.

Lizard people!

Seriously though, I don't believe that CO2 is causing AGW. Or if it is, the temperature increase is so minor that spending trillions to minimise it would be pointless.
My belief is that the weather is influenced by the sun. However, I do not know whether other man made (besides CO2) pollutants are messing with the planets' natural climate.

 

[Monopoly_Man]

Lizard people!

Seriously though, I don't believe that CO2 is causing AGW. Or if it is, the temperature increase is so minor that spending trillions to minimise it would be pointless.
My belief is that the weather is influenced by the sun. However, I do not know whether other man made (besides CO2) pollutants are messing with the planets' natural climate.

And all of the scientists who are experts in their fields and have dedicated countless hours to studying the phenomenon who say that absolutely C02 is causing AGW are wrong?

And the Politicians who have no scientific background who receive millions from the fossil fuel industries (who stand to lose the most from taking action against climate change) have everyone's best interests at heart and are telling the truth?

Come on dude, let's get real here. In 2017 to still deny this just screams fear and/or guilt.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes, you do.

Bit hypocritical to say something isn't science when at the same time you deny the actual science.

bit silly to stick stupid labels on people.

 

[Long Live HFC]

My belief is that the weather is influenced by the sun. However, I do not know whether other man made (besides CO2) pollutants are messing with the planets' natural climate.

ignoring the fact that duh, of course warming is caused by the sun- what particular aspect of the sun is independently warming the planet?

 

[Malifice]

Seriously though, I don't believe that CO2 is causing AGW.

What? CO2 is a proven greenhouse gas. Thats not debateable. Its a binary thing. It either is a greenhouse gas (and they are called that because they warm the planet up like a greenhouse) or it isnt one.

A greenhouse gas (abbrev. GHG) is a gas in an atmosphere that absorbs and emits radiation within the thermal infrared range. This process is the fundamental cause of the greenhouse effect.[1] The primary greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere are water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and ozone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

Science has advanced well beyond the point that we know that CO2 absorbs and emits radiation (at significant levels) beyond any doubt. Its a greenhouse gas (and a bad one at that). Thats a thing you can test in the lab. Its not denied by anyone on any side of the debate, because its akin to saying 'fire isnt hot'.

It is also proven fact that greenhouse gasses in the upper atmosphere warm things up (by trapping radiant heat within the atmosphere). The same effect is why your greenhouse is warmer inside than whatever the outside temperature is. Hence the name.

We also know that CO2 is being dumped into the atmosphere at record levels, and is rising:

Now what conclusions can you draw from those accepted facts?

For a man that thinks 'Martin Bryant didnt commit the Port Arthur masacre' after following some pretty obscure and unrelated crap, including general supposition, made up crap, inferences as to his skill with a firearm and so forth you seem to ignore pretty obvious conclusions from very straightforward facts.

 

[Long Live HFC]

The same effect is why your greenhouse is warmer inside than whatever the outside temperature is.

actually, that's incorrect. the "greenhouse effect" is a complete misnomer. greenhouses work by preventing convection; they don't trap solar radiation, they just make air movement within more difficult. however, you are right that there are experiments that prove CO2's interaction with solar radiation.

 

[Grin]

There is no consensus re AGW

Kind of like there is no scientific consensus re germ theory, and the effectiveness of immunisation.
You nongs from the far left and the far right share your enmity of science and reason with equal passion.
Must be a fundamentalist thing.

 

[blured]

But high temperature only matters in Sydney , that's why we keep hearing about it.
45.7 the other day.
45.3 nearly 100 years ago.
So its gone up half a degree
Of course we have no idea how hot it got there until a couple of hundred years ago.
Melbourne's hottest : 47.2 ( Maybe ) 1851
46.4 2009
45.6 1939

None of which is even relevant to global warming.

Even England only has official records since 1914. I guess that before that all we had was
"On this day his majesty the king did declareth it to be *&%$ing Hot "

Such insightful and such well thought out observations. Please continue

 

[medusala]

Kind of like there is no scientific consensus re germ theory, and the effectiveness of immunisation.

You forgot tobacco lobby groups.

#Pavlov
#no1dog