Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[Doro]

What did he suggest? Keep Ratten? If so he must be a legend.

It'll be interesting to see how Ratten goes with the Saints. Same mid range list as he had at Carlton and similar recruiting/list managenent history. Unsure myself which way they'll go.

 

[thylacine60]

Basically warned us all what a mistake it was......in minute detail.

 

[JustaBattler]

It was Lloyd who got Russell.

sure he did.....

 

[Jabba73]

We should have listened to Windhover

Still reading his posts on the matter.

To be fair, can only set aside 2 hours a night so probably have about 8 years worth to still read.

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm no fan of the SOS axing. But I disagree with you that Liddle only had to ride the wave to increasing memberships. Right place at the right time maybe, but the increase would not have happened so fast without his intense focus on it. Credit where it's due.

Who am I to challenge people's happy places?

 

[HARKER]

40 year blue was the one.
He was the one with the loudest anti-Malthouse voice and by far. I know. I have proof.

Malthouse was a product of 'don't get best available, but get the best' era.
Ratten didn't stand a chance either way and he made things hard around the club for his controlling ways.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Still reading his posts on the matter.

To be fair, can only set aside 2 hours a night so probably have about 8 years worth to still read.

40YB distilled any thoughts Windover might've been expressing down into very short, very punchy sentences. Might be easier to read those if they're not all deleted

edit: beaten to it

 

[ferrisb]

We should have listened to Windhover

I listened, but I fell asleep after 108 hours....

 

[ferrisb]

Who am I to challenge people's happy places?

You don't think the membership surge that has coincided pretty much perfectly with Liddle's hiring and matches his main expertise, experience and focus has anything to do with Liddle? OK

Who am I to challenge your unhappy place?

 

[sosos]

Who am I to challenge people's happy places?

My kids bought me a Mr Happy coffee mug for Father's Day. It was supposed to be ironic.

 

[JustaBattler]

You don't think the membership surge that has coincided pretty much perfectly with Liddle's hiring and matches his main expertise, experience and focus has anything to do with Liddle? OK

Who am I to challenge your unhappy place?

You don't think the membership surge has coincided pretty much perfectly with SOS's list build ( which matched his expertise, experience and focus) has anything to do with SOS/Bolton/a better list and membership expectations about a brighter future - OK.

keep chest-puffing though - always amusing.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

He was asked if he'd accept it back in 2003.

Is it like knighthood? This year was the perfect year. No speeches to make.

 

[Wickzki]

Eddie's a great caller for mine. Old school.

Absolutely agree. It's a dying art form. Still, he is passionate in favor of the Blues much of the time.

 

[Accidental genius]

40 year blue was the one.
He was the one with the loudest anti-Malthouse voice and by far. I know. I have proof.

Malthouse was a product of 'don't get best available, but get the best' era.
Ratten didn't stand a chance either way and he made things hard around the club for his controlling ways.

Do you really believe this? I don’t.

 

[Wickzki]

Re: Russell

It was whoever had the connection to the University that got him to the club. Russell was afforded opportunities that the Hawks simply could not match.

This is according to the Hawks themselves at their best and fairest before he came here.

The Hawks were filthy but understood and supported him for the career progression.

 

[HARKER]

Do you really believe this? I don’t.

Believe it?

Ratten did want to have his control over everything.
This is not the path for survival for a modern coach and Ratten has admitted to it since.
Letting go probably saved, at least in part, Buckley and Hardwick as coaches, also.
One person can't do everything and again it was wrong by our club to have Bolton driving the culture of the club. I called that early on. Big mistake for all.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Because the Hall of Fame thing has been poorly organised and run.
There been no logic for many years of how some recently retired players get inducted and some stars of the game are waiting numerous decades!!!!
How guys like Trevor Barker, Kenny Hunter and Wayne Johnston were left hanging and lesser lights than much younger got in well before them, tells you it is out of whack in timing of the actual Hall of Fame category. For me a guy like Mark Bickley is a good footballer. not a hall of famer. There are a few others like him from recent decades too.

I'm less concerned about Legends category and so far they not cheapened that with every Tom, Dick and Harry in it. If Doull has to wait to be elevated to Legend a little longer, not fussed. John Kennedy is clearly a legend and waiting till he well over 90.
I want to see Robert Flower and Bruce Doull be next two players elevated to Legend status as both are legends in my eyes.

As usual a thoughtful response. There‘s actually a formula concerning the ratio of Hall of Fame players and the number of legends allowed. How does that sort of logic work? I read through the names of those named as legends and I see Royce Hart, a contemporary of Doull’s. I can only assume that Royce self assessed his elevation to a legend.

Has there been an article on Bickley recently? My son was putting up with my rants last night on Doull. When he was sick of it he messaged me and stated “Agreed, it will happen soon”. I knew that meant “shut up Dad”. I had one more bite and he sent back this message. “I think the bigger question is how is Mark Bickley In the Hall of Fame”.

As for Robbie Flower .

How about we start with statues for Doull and Flower outside the MCG?

The MCG needs two more statues.

 

[Wickzki]

Re: SOS being lazy

If SOS was lazy then he must have taken a family vacation to Yarrawonga or he picked a random name off the draft board. Otherwise, I have no idea how he could possibly have discovered Finbar O'Dwyer.

 

[HARKER]

Re: SOS being lazy

How does one define lazy though?
He could have a. Worked 80 hours a week at CFC headquarters, with little net result or b. 20 hours a week and thinking things through the rest of the time.

Give me method b. every day of the week.

 

[Wickzki]

Re: SOS being lazy

How does one define lazy though?
He could have a. Worked 80 hours a week, with little net result or b. 20 hours a week and thinking things through the rest of the time.

Give me method b. every day of the week.

True that. Work smarter not harder.

 

[Jabba73]

Re: SOS being lazy

How does one define lazy though?
He could have a. Worked 80 hours a week at CFC headquarters, with little net result or b. 20 hours a week and thinking things through the rest of the time.

Give me method b. every day of the week.

Spot on

 

[ferrisb]

You don't think the membership surge has coincided pretty much perfectly with SOS's list build ( which matched his expertise, experience and focus) has anything to do with SOS/Bolton/a better list and membership expectations about a brighter future - OK.

keep chest-puffing though - always amusing.

Yeah, I do think SOS's rebuild has been a major factor in the membership growth.

But to downplay Liddle's contribution I think is IMO inaccurate, disingenuous or both. And I lean disingenuous. It appears many of the posters that are most skeptical about Liddle's membership contributions are the same ones that call him That Richmond Bloke or are still wailing incessantly about SOS's departure (which I didn't support).

The majority of us here eat, breathe and shit Carlton. We know the list demographics down to every last detail and we appreciate all the intricacies of SOS's genius trading deals. But the wider fanbase doesn't care about that if you finish 16th, 18th, 16th on the ladder. While I/we love SOS's rebuild, I am not sure the average fan is filled with as much hope as we are on here.

Here is how I see our membership from the last five years....

2015 - We finish last, but SOS joins, we sack salty Malty, get a new young coach, start a rebuild, get four 1st rounders and gain some hope > Next season membership +6%
2016 - We rise to 14th on the ladder, performing well above expectations > and yet membership stalls the next year
2017 - We arguably go backwards on-field, finish 16th, get a couple more 1st rounders. We Hire Cain Liddle in November > Next season membership magically jumps +11% (coincidence, huh?)
2018 - We go VERY clearly backwards on-field. We have one of the worst seasons in VFL/AFL history. Despite the rebuild gathering steam (and getting Sam Walsh), the PR honeymoon is now over > Yet somehow we add 15% members the next year
2019 - We are so bad we are forced to sack the coach we were determined to stick with. We get a new new young coach and see an on-field improvement and end the season on somewhat of a high. But we still finish 16th and don't have a shiny draft pick to play with (I personally have no issue with SOS's pick swaps). We were on track for +18% surge in members before COVID hits.

The jump in members coincided with the off-season we hired Liddle (fact). It was also a season (end of 2017) that on-field and list-wise we had no major basis for a step change in members (opinion). The jump the following year (2018 > 2019) is even more remarkable, with basically no on-field justification (opinion, but hard to argue with).

SOS's list build has done wonders to restore hope to us Blues fans. But hope doesn't translate into memberships without good marketing, PR, sales processes. Liddle is a salesman. And a slick one (in the good and bad senses). He's using every trick in the book but I think he is effective. Can anyone here say Trigg inspired or convinced them to sign up as a member? I can't speak for the entire fanbase, but I dare say he was less convincing than Liddle.

TL;DR - There are many reasons why our membership has grown and the list rebuild is a major factor. But anyone downplaying Liddle's contribution is probably kidding themselves.

Disclaimer: I've now written this kind of post a few times. And it may appear I am Cain's #1 fan (or Cain himself). I don't consider myself to be his sycophant but I also don't like to stand by while people attempt to re-write history. I'll try to make this my last post on the issue in case it's getting tedious.

 

[HARKER]

SOS's list build has done wonders to restore hope to us Blues fans. But hope doesn't translate into memberships without good marketing, PR, sales processes. Liddle is a salesman. And a slick one (in the good and bad senses). He's using every trick in the book but I think he is effective. Can anyone here say Trigg inspired or convinced them to sign up as a member? I can't speak for the entire fanbase, but I dare say he was less convincing than Liddle.

This really shouldn't be a hard notion to get ones head around.

I don't think Liddle is particularly charismatic, but I'd like our club to be so.
Not to the detriment of getting the job done, but just to have some personality. Maybe the next President will help that along.

Liddle has really put himself out there though and we really shouldn't judge him for what we think came about in regards to SOS. That would be a mistake.

 

[Aphrodite]

Is it like knighthood? This year was the perfect year. No speeches to make.

 

[Aphrodite]

Eddie's a great caller for mine. Old school.

Love listening to Eddie calling games except for when he is calling Filth games.