Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 2

[kingkingston]

Dow is into season number 5 and is out of contract at the end of the year so the time for him to perform has arrived and I doubt there is much more patience in store for him. As I've said a few times if he was drafted 23 or 33 instead of 3 and served up what he has over the past 4 seasons I doubt many would be calling for patience.

Dow showed quite a bit last season once they allowed him more midfield time. Draft number is irrelevant. A guy drafted 20 has just as much right as a guy drafted 5 to grow and become a great player for a club. It is up to the player and club to do work on the skills and way they play

 

[Beyond Blue]

Dow showed quite a bit last season once they allowed him more midfield time. Draft number is irrelevant. A guy drafted 20 has just as much right as a guy drafted 5 to grow and become a great player for a club. It is up to the player and club to do work on the skills and way they play

Clubs expect results from players taken with Pick 3 so it’s got everything to do with what number he was drafted at and he has showed nothing compared to the guys taken around him (Brayshaw, Cerra and LDU).

I think people have a right to be very concerned because I don’t know many players who have taken this long to show they are consistently very good AFL player.

I know it was just a scratch match today but Cerra playing with new teammates cruised around and picked up 25 plus possessions and kicked 2 goals…that would literally be a career game for Dow.

I expect everyone will see the difference to our midfield this year now Cripps and Walsh actually have some decent help from Cerra and Hewett as opposed to Dow and Setters.

If Dow has a bad year then I fully expect he won’t be at Carlton next season.

 

[Love the Drake]

Agreed with above posts.

Big year for Dow, LOB, Setterfield, Cuningham, Fisher, Marchbank, Newman, Cottrell and Williamson for different reasons.

All have been on our list for at least 3-5 years. They have shown glimpses, but none have solidified their position in our best 22.

Dow - explosive speed and good evasive skills, but has not shown he can perform at the level consistently - A BIG CONCERN.
LOB - great aerobic capacity and a nice left foot, but shits himself 10 times a game and makes costly mistakes - A HUGE CONCERN.
Setterfield - Nice skills and a good size. Lacks any urgency or intensity. Being tried on the wing as not good enough on ball. Big disappointment.
Cuningham - Great speed and skills. His best is brilliant, but goes missing in games. Also injury prone.
Fisher - Great awareness and freakish evasive skills. Needs more bread & butter and consitency. Where is his best position?
Marchbank - Beautiful athlete that can't get on the park. If he remains injury free he is a huge asset.
Newman - Good foot soldier with limitations. Hard at it, but gets caught out frequently.
Cottrell - freak athlete who needs to get more of the pill and use it better.
Williamson - see Newman.

If just four of these players can step up this year it will go a long way towards us playing finals, as I see them (with Boyd, Parks & Newnes) as in our bottom 12 players on the list. Bearing in mind we will give the youngsters a couple of years to develop.

 

[thylacine60]

Agreed with above posts.

Big year for Dow, LOB, Setterfield, Cuningham, Fisher, Marchbank, Newman, Cottrell and Williamson for different reasons.

All have been on our list for at least 3-5 years. They have shown glimpses, but none have solidified their position in our best 22.

Dow - explosive speed and good evasive skills, but has not shown he can perform at the level consistently - A BIG CONCERN.
LOB - great aerobic capacity and a nice left foot, but shits himself 10 times a game and makes costly mistakes - A HUGE CONCERN.
Setterfield - Nice skills and a good size. Lacks any urgency or intensity. Being tried on the wing as not good enough on ball. Big disappointment.
Cuningham - Great speed and skills. His best is brilliant, but goes missing in games. Also injury prone.
Fisher - Great awareness and freakish evasive skills. Needs more bread & butter and consitency. Where is his best position?
Marchbank - Beautiful athlete that can't get on the park. If he remains injury free he is a huge asset.
Newman - Good foot soldier with limitations. Hard at it, but gets caught out frequently.
Cottrell - freak athlete who needs to get more of the pill and use it better.
Williamson - see Newman.

If just four of these players can step up this year it will go a long way towards us playing finals, as I see them (with Boyd, Parks & Newnes) as in our bottom 12 players on the list. Bearing in mind we will give the youngsters a couple of years to develop.

perfectly put together post - bang on......

 

[Manhattanite]

Clubs expect results from players taken with Pick 3 so it’s got everything to do with what number he was drafted at and he has showed nothing compared to the guys taken around him (Brayshaw, Cerra and LDU).

I think people have a right to be very concerned because I don’t know many players who have taken this long to show they are consistently very good AFL player.

I know it was just a scratch match today but Cerra playing with new teammates cruised around and picked up 25 plus possessions and kicked 2 goals…that would literally be a career game for Dow.

I expect everyone will see the difference to our midfield this year now Cripps and Walsh actually have some decent help from Cerra and Hewett as opposed to Dow and Setters.

If Dow has a bad year then I fully expect he won’t be at Carlton next season.

Completely agree on 25 plus 2 being a career game for Dow lol

I would say getting Cerra and Hewett in and Kennedy stepping up really does make it much easier for Dow - he doesn’t need to be our third best mid or whatever he was in his first season - he needs to stick to his strengths and stick to 15-20 quality possessions where he exerts his speed and skill and doesn’t try to do too much at all. Dow as our 6th or 7th best mid should suit him. I’m sure the coaching staff are telling him the same. He’s part of a much stronger rotation now so can keep it simpler.




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[JustaBattler]

Agreed with above posts.

Big year for Dow, LOB, Setterfield, Cuningham, Fisher, Marchbank, Newman, Cottrell and Williamson for different reasons.

All have been on our list for at least 3-5 years. They have shown glimpses, but none have solidified their position in our best 22.

Dow - explosive speed and good evasive skills, but has not shown he can perform at the level consistently - A BIG CONCERN.
LOB - great aerobic capacity and a nice left foot, but shits himself 10 times a game and makes costly mistakes - A HUGE CONCERN.
Setterfield - Nice skills and a good size. Lacks any urgency or intensity. Being tried on the wing as not good enough on ball. Big disappointment.
Cuningham - Great speed and skills. His best is brilliant, but goes missing in games. Also injury prone.
Fisher - Great awareness and freakish evasive skills. Needs more bread & butter and consitency. Where is his best position?
Marchbank - Beautiful athlete that can't get on the park. If he remains injury free he is a huge asset.
Newman - Good foot soldier with limitations. Hard at it, but gets caught out frequently.
Cottrell - freak athlete who needs to get more of the pill and use it better.
Williamson - see Newman.

If just four of these players can step up this year it will go a long way towards us playing finals, as I see them (with Boyd, Parks & Newnes) as in our bottom 12 players on the list. Bearing in mind we will give the youngsters a couple of years to develop.

Pretty much spot on - except I don't think LoB 'shits himself' 10X a game I think he has genuine on-off performance anxiety and a low IQ when it comes to impacting contests - eg yesterday he tried to shoulder bump a rampaging ruckman 5 meters out of goal - the physics in that equation were never going to end well ( however as someone else has suggested we have to ask ourselves the question how had does he run for him to even get to the situation and try and help?) - at the same time yesterday with ball in hand he made some very good kick dispose decisions under extreme pressure. Lob is a natural-born kicker and not so much ball-handler. This imposes limitations on his performance consistency - but he is far far ahead of midfielders trying to be repurposed into outside runners and kickers.

 

[MightyBlue]

LOB strikes me as a player who's low on confidence. Has all the tools there (elite endurance, awesome left peg) to be a fantastic winger.

I have a vague recollection of him playing an awesome game against hawthorn a couple of years ago. There were a few passages of play when he was everywhere (backline, mid, forward, in quick succession), and it was all due to that hard running.

Sincerely hope he can find some consistency in his game, would be a huge boost to the team as it's something we've really lacked.

 

[kingkingston]

Clubs expect results from players taken with Pick 3 so it’s got everything to do with what number he was drafted at and he has showed nothing compared to the guys taken around him (Brayshaw, Cerra and LDU).

I think people have a right to be very concerned because I don’t know many players who have taken this long to show they are consistently very good AFL player.

I know it was just a scratch match today but Cerra playing with new teammates cruised around and picked up 25 plus possessions and kicked 2 goals…that would literally be a career game for Dow.

I expect everyone will see the difference to our midfield this year now Cripps and Walsh actually have some decent help from Cerra and Hewett as opposed to Dow and Setters.

If Dow has a bad year then I fully expect he won’t be at Carlton next season.

Dow won't be going anywhere. Judge him at the end of his career, not just 4 and a bit seasons in. He is only 22. Takes time for some players to get going and he has had to put muscle on his frame to really get a consistent run in the midfield. Lots of AFL players have taken time to adapt to AFL. Many pre-seasons. His second half of the season last year was far more consistant once he got more midfield time. He also has a proper coach now as well

 

[Beyond Blue]

Dow won't be going anywhere. Judge him at the end of his career, not just 4 and a bit seasons in. He is only 22. Takes time for some players to get going and he has had to put muscle on his frame to really get a consistent run in the midfield. Lots of AFL players have taken time to adapt to AFL. Many pre-seasons. His second half of the season last year was far more consistant once he got more midfield time. He also has a proper coach now as well

Clearly I’m less optimistic about the situation than you, and I certainly hope you end up being right as opposed to me, but IMO there is real cause for concern with Dow, especially after it seems he didn’t do enough pre season to get picked in the 1s yesterday and from all reports hardly tore it up against Sandringham.

Whilst I know it’s fraught to compare players, the comparison with Cerra will always be there and as we saw yesterday when, playing for the first time with new teammates Cerra was more impactful than Dow has ever been, the difference currently is stark.

 

[thylacine60]

Clearly I’m less optimistic about the situation than you, and I certainly hope you end up being right as opposed to me, but IMO there is real cause for concern with Dow, especially after it seems he didn’t do enough pre season to get picked in the 1s yesterday and from all reports hardly tore it up against Sandringham.

Whilst I know it’s fraught to compare players, the comparison with Cerra will always be there and as we saw yesterday when, playing for the first time with new teammates Cerra was more impactful than Dow has ever been, the difference currently is stark.

you'll be optimistic and like it...........

 

[Beyond Blue]

you'll be optimistic and like it...........

Forgive me father for I have sinned

 

[kingkingston]

 

[Arr0w]

Pretty much spot on - except I don't think LoB 'shits himself' 10X a game I think he has genuine on-off performance anxiety and a low IQ when it comes to impacting contests - eg yesterday he tried to shoulder bump a rampaging ruckman 5 meters out of goal - the physics in that equation were never going to end well ( however as someone else has suggested we have to ask ourselves the question how had does he run for him to even get to the situation and try and help?) - at the same time yesterday with ball in hand he made some very good kick dispose decisions under extreme pressure. Lob is a natural-born kicker and not so much ball-handler. This imposes limitations on his performance consistency - but he is far far ahead of midfielders trying to be repurposed into outside runners and kickers.

Good analysis

I actually think he has great footy IQ, but winning the contested ball doesn't come naturally to him

I actually think he is second guessing himself, rather than completely committing himself to attack the footy, or sagging back to cover an opponent

If he can get that right, he will cement a spot

 

[JustaBattler]

Good analysis

I actually think he has great footy IQ, but winning the contested ball doesn't come naturally to him

I actually think he is second guessing himself, rather than completely committing himself to attack the footy, or sagging back to cover an opponent

If he can get that right, he will cement a spot

thats the way i see him - he is second guessing himself because of performance anxiety - he can work through it if he gets a decent run at it - which means he has to be a bit smarter with what he does ....by low IQ - I meant smarter players know how to avoid embarrassment - LoB is sometimes his own worst enemy - but he is an hinest player ...there are a few who made careers at Carlton being smart enough to not be there ( if you now what I mean)

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

He speaks exceptionally well.

 

[norway blue]

He speaks exceptionally well.

And he likes pineapple on pizza. I love Carlton, Vossy and pineapple. Pineapple is good for your voice .


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[Bletch]

Good analysis

I actually think he has great footy IQ, but winning the contested ball doesn't come naturally to him

I actually think he is second guessing himself, rather than completely committing himself to attack the footy, or sagging back to cover an opponent

If he can get that right, he will cement a spot

Agree. But that's hard to teach, it's more instinctive. I still have grave doubts about him. Can't see Voss sticking with a player that won't/can't commit to the contest.

 

[Magical_EddieBetts]

Voss on Carlton's new game plan, Hinkley's influence and the pass-mark for 2022

Carlton coach Michael Voss spoke to Riley Beveridge about his first season at the helm of the Blues

www.afl.com.au

Great interview with Vossy, loving him more and more by the day!! Full faith in him, the coaching staff and the club

 

[Benaly28]

$3.36 against the tigers round 1….your joking this is the year.


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[ferrisb]

$3.36 against the tigers round 1….your joking this is the year.

 

[Gw2_James]

I hope it is

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Thanks for that! Just had a read, so was that normal for the time that a player could just progress through the u19’s and reserves and just step into the senior side despite the draft being around?

Without fact checking the National draft was in its infancy stage (3rd or 4th incarnation) at that time and wasn’t the only pathway for footballers to become AFL players. There were also restrictions on drafting SA players with the introduction of the Adelaide Crows around the same time.
There were historical “suburban zones” that Melbourne clubs had in the 70s, 80s possibly even early 90s?
Lalor / Thomastown / Epping sitting in the Carlton zone. Country Victoria was also divided up with the Blues having the Bendigo region to pick from.
The recruiters from the clubs would concentrate their efforts on the young talant from these areas and invite them down to train with the 19s.
I think Koula played with the Lalor Stars (A local junior club) but was more known for his athletic prowess dominating the Little Athletics scene in the day.
I believe once you “signed” for the 19s that officially made you a Carlton player and you’d progress through the 19s, reserves & seniors if good enough.
If your old man was good enough he would’ve been asked down to train back in his day !!
Off the top of my head, and to name a couple of others, David Glascott from Epping & Alex Marcou from Lalor were picked up the same way.
The pathway began right back to the little league in the 70s / 80s with the best kids picked from the junior teams from the Northern suburbs making up the little league team each year. The best kids would play each game throughout a regular season with a ladder / points & finals.

Hope this helps / gives a little insight.

 

[thylacine60]

Lance was also a Lalor boy from memory.

 

[JustaBattler]

$3.36 against the tigers round 1….your joking this is the year.


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Charlie with suspect knee fragile enough to require scans after a praccy game
Harry with what is probably turf toe again
Walsh out
Jones gone
New Coach and game plan

V
Established team with D.Martin back in.

 

[thylacine60]

looks like we have em right where we want em.......