Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

[David Sylvian]

Just reading the fox sports AFL grading of teams/matches, we got an A. However highlighting Carrol’s free kicks against was ordinary. Could have highlighted so many other things but let’s pick on a young fella with a handful of games making his way. Pathetic.

 

[myblueroan]

Just reading the fox sports AFL grading of teams/matches, we got an A. However highlighting Carrol’s free kicks against was ordinary. Could have highlighted so many other things but let’s pick on a young fella with a handful of games making his way. Pathetic.

Like last note on 360
. 5 minutes of how great we were
And then
Let's face it...cats were far from their best. Mid field didn't play to standard ...etc etc.

 

[Jatz]

Like last note on 360
. 5 minutes of how great we were
And then
Let's face it...cats were far from their best. Mid field didn't play to standard ...etc etc.

Isn't that entirely accurate? We did play really well, they were far from their best. That's just factual, not sure why that's controversial.

 

[myblueroan]

Isn't that entirely accurate? We did play really well, they were far from their best. That's just factual, not sure why that's controversial.

Just poor sportsmanship by a churlish coach and dismissive of possibility they played poorly due to our pressure.

 

[Jatz]

Just poor sportsmanship by a churlish coach and dismissive of possibility they played poorly due to our pressure.

Perhaps in that instance, he was very complimentary to our pressure in his press conference the other night. He did say they were most disappointed with the unforced errors, the ones that had nothing to do with our pressure.

I guess this is part of the problem with so much media these days. He'll be put in front of a camera so often now you often won't get a consistent story.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Isn't that entirely accurate? We did play really well, they were far from their best. That's just factual, not sure why that's controversial.

The point would be what caused the Cats to be below their best - perhaps our pressure and 70 tackles (higher than the best AFL average this year)

 

[myblueroan]

In case you've stopped watching the autopsy thread v Cats.
This is awesome.

BENCH CAM: All the massive moments from win over Geelong!

Watch all the emotion and insight from the bench as Carlton produced a big win over Geelong at the MCG in Round 7.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[katmanblue]

In case you've stopped watching the autopsy thread v Cats.
This is awesome.

BENCH CAM: All the massive moments from win over Geelong!

Watch all the emotion and insight from the bench as Carlton produced a big win over Geelong at the MCG in Round 7.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Williams really is the best cheerleader.

 

[myblueroan]

Williams really is the best cheerleader.

Thought the same. Glad his heart is so in it, even if body isn't.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I loved seeing all the camaraderie on the bench. Good stuff.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Newman: "George hasn't got the distance..."

Oh ye of little faith!

Love this vision though, nice insight into some of the messaging and changes being made. Also great to get some idea of who the leaders are. Ollie, for example, seems really invested in directing teammates and driving the team-first mentality, which is awesome from a youngster.

 

[jooce8891]

if thats not a connected group i dunno what is.

 

[2blue4u]

Via https://www.facebook.com/7AFL

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

FWIW - George Hewett

29

George Hewett

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.7

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

3.3

5star

D

13.8

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

9.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

has only once kicked more than 9 goals in a season (18 in his debut year) - he currently has 5 from 7 games.

 

[Styxx]

Booking in to meet Kouta, Diesel and Sticks at a sportsman's night and get a photo with the 95 cup as a birthday present from the parents.


7 year old me is giddy as all ****

 

[JustaBattler]

Worth a watch.

 

[Magruder]

Worth a watch.

Rnds 1- 4 were not as dire as first thought.

Despite the losses and the gloom that produces, they all felt like games we should have won.

Told some Cats supporters that the upset on Sunday was the narrowness of the margin, not the result. We are the sleeper. But we need to stay healthy.

 

[JustaBattler]

Rnds 1- 4 were not as dire as first thought.

Despite the losses and the gloom that produces, they all felt like games we should have won.

Told some Cats supporters that the upset on Sunday was the narrowness of the margin, not the result. We are the sleeper. But we need to stay healthy.

Round 1 was a shocker ( after the disaster of the elimination final) and following losses fed the negative narrative - add a couple of missing players and we win against doggies and hawthorn and who knows V Collingwood is the way I saw things - but round 1 was about the worst start anyone could imagine- giving up a 40 point lead - very ugly.

Still - if one sits back and could be bothered to look at the huge changes Voss and team have been able to manufacture - the facts suggest that they know what they are doing - which is why I thought the video was worth posting.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Round 1 was a shocker ( after the disaster of the elimination final) and following losses fed the negative narrative - add a couple of missing players and we win against doggies and hawthorn and who knows V Collingwood is the way I saw things - but round 1 was about the worst start anyone could imagine- giving up a 40 point lead - very ugly.

It's more complicated than that.

v Doggies - what if we add their missing players back too? Let's not pretend we were worse off than them because we weren't...

Also the interchange debacle in that match where we had notable key players on the bench in the last quarter with 10+ interchanges up our sleeve...

Hawks, was an expected "response" after the Tigers disgrace. Ultimately, ran out of legs which can be attributed to taxing game style and inept small forwards + underdone Charlie meant we lacked scoring power in the second half.

Collingwood has been the same story pretty much every time for the last few years... they find a way to beat us. That third quarter was a disgrace and they clearly put the cue in the rack in the last quarter... there was no "who knows" about it.

Really, we were lucky they didn't start burying us in the second quarter with all those missed opportunities. We once again showed no method to what we were doing, it was all just hurry the ball forward at all costs contest after contest.

Still - if one sits back and could be bothered to look at the huge changes Voss and team have been able to manufacture - the facts suggest that they know what they are doing - which is why I thought the video was worth posting.

I think the lack of pressure from Eagles contributed to giving them confidence to move the ball more freely. We all knew they were capable - the evidence was already there, we were clear 2nd on the ladder late last season. It was a combination of the players not executing as well as the coaching staff not being able to extract that from them... it took a game where we literally had close to the least pressure on record for it to happen... and we couldn't have hand picked a better opponent to instill it the following week either...

 

[JustaBattler]

It's more complicated than that.

v Doggies - what if we add their missing players back too? Let's not pretend we were worse off than them because we weren't...

Also the interchange debacle in that match where we had notable key players on the bench in the last quarter with 10+ interchanges up our sleeve...

Hawks, was an expected "response" after the Tigers disgrace. Ultimately, ran out of legs which can be attributed to taxing game style and inept small forwards + underdone Charlie meant we lacked scoring power in the second half.

Collingwood has been the same story pretty much every time for the last few years... they find a way to beat us. That third quarter was a disgrace and they clearly put the cue in the rack in the last quarter... there was no "who knows" about it.

Really, we were lucky they didn't start burying us in the second quarter with all those missed opportunities. We once again showed no method to what we were doing, it was all just hurry the ball forward at all costs contest after contest.



I think the lack of pressure from Eagles contributed to giving them confidence to move the ball more freely. We all knew they were capable - the evidence was already there, we were clear 2nd on the ladder late last season. It was a combination of the players not executing as well as the coaching staff not being able to extract that from them... it took a game where we literally had close to the least pressure on record for it to happen... and we couldn't have hand picked a better opponent to instill it the following week either...

The video which was posted is about what the Club has done to address its major weaknesses in 2024 and despite the poor start to the year - the evidence suggest that the improvement is quite significant. I responded to a poster whose opinion was that the Club's performance is not as bad as W/L suggests.

You began your response to my response stating that " it is more complicated than that" I dont know what "that' is in this statement but anyway...

you go on to describe how the W/L record actually paints a worse picture of Club performance than the W/L suggests and you conclude by suggesting that player execution and coaching failure to get the most out of players are the two reasons why W/L is where it is.

I think the only difference between 2 or three more wins versus the losses is player availability -to simplify things the team looks and performs much better with Harry on the ground and E Hollands playing ie it makes execution for the team as a whole better and makes it easier for coaches to extract the most out of players that they do have available.

The whole defensive mix ha changed back there - maybe it is as simple as taking a few games playing together to get the new mix playing to its ability?

Unfortunately with Jack being injured continuity goes down the drain - again, as does Cottrells unavailability impact on defensive running as did Kemps injury - continuity is important in team cohesiveness and ability to execute and having better players available and playing consistently together is a big factor in winning versus losing.

eg
I would rather Jack Silvagni playing in defense than Young or Cowan.
I would rather have Williams playing forward than Docherty

Next man up might sound good - but teh reality is that the next person up is not going to give you the reults and when there are multiple next person ups week in week out - it is a significant factor.

The team manages a big win against a form team like Geelong and then promptly has to manage injuries again and change the set-ups that worked. Continuity and cohesion is important and Carlton hasn't managed to have that and continues to not have that.

anyway that is my opinion - not particularly controversial I would have thought.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

The video which was posted is about what the Club has done to address its major weaknesses in 2024 and despite the poor start to the year - the evidence suggest that the improvement is quite significant. I responded to a poster whose opinion was that the Club's performance is not as bad as W/L suggests.

You began your response to my response stating that " it is more complicated than that" I dont know what "that' is in this statement but anyway...

you go on to describe how the W/L record actually paints a worse picture of Club performance than the W/L suggests and you conclude by suggesting that player execution and coaching failure to get the most out of players are the two reasons why W/L is where it is.

I think the only difference between 2 or three more wins versus the losses is player availability -to simplify things the team looks and performs much better with Harry on the ground and E Hollands playing ie it makes execution for the team as a whole better and makes it easier for coaches to extract the most out of players that they do have available.

The whole defensive mix ha changed back there - maybe it is as simple as taking a few games playing together to get the new mix playing to its ability?

Unfortunately with Jack being injured continuity goes down the drain - again, as does Cottrells unavailability impact on defensive running as did Kemps injury - continuity is important in team cohesiveness and ability to execute and having better players available and playing consistently together is a big factor in winning versus losing.

eg
I would rather Jack Silvagni playing in defense than Young or Cowan.
I would rather have Williams playing forward than Docherty

Next man up might sound good - but teh reality is that the next person up is not going to give you the reults and when there are multiple next person ups week in week out - it is a significant factor.

The team manages a big win against a form team like Geelong and then promptly has to manage injuries again and change the set-ups that worked. Continuity and cohesion is important and Carlton hasn't managed to have that and continues to not have that.

anyway that is my opinion - not particularly controversial I would have thought.

Your view isn't controversial.

Just re player availability being the only factor... I've already stated why I believe that isn't the case.

Harry didn't play v North and Lij was rusty. We still smashed them. Had we played like we did in the first 4 rounds, you're looking at maybe 4-5 goal win instead. Look at last year's round 19 game v North... only won by 3 goals despite having a stronger team on paper...

 

[JustaBattler]

Your view isn't controversial.

Just re player availability being the only factor... I've already stated why I believe that isn't the case.

Harry didn't play v North and Lij was rusty. We still smashed them. Had we played like we did in the first 4 rounds, you're looking at maybe 4-5 goal win instead. Look at last year's round 19 game v North... only won by 3 goals despite having a stronger team on paper...

I have never stated anywhere anytime that player availability is the only factor.

btw - I see you have no comment to make about the improvement the coaches and players have made in their in game performance....

OR do you think such analytics are irrelevant stats?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

I have never stated anywhere anytime that player availability is the only factor.

I was referencing when you said this:

"I think the only difference between 2 or three more wins versus the losses is player availability -"

btw - I see you have no comment to make about the improvement the coaches and players have made in their in game performance....

OR do you think such analytics are irrelevant stats?

No def not irrelevant. I think it's a pretty good video.

I think in the first 4 games, the method of the i50 entries was the biggest issue with our ability to convert. An issue spawned by hack kicks forward, shallow entries, reminded me a bit of 2023 when we were getting done by 3-4 goals every week regardless of opposition. Back then, we had a pretty good defensive profile too.

 

[JustaBattler]

I was referencing when you said this:

"I think the only difference between 2 or three more wins versus the losses is player availability -"



No def not irrelevant. I think it's a pretty good video.

I think in the first 4 games, the method of the i50 entries was the biggest issue with our ability to convert. An issue spawned by hack kicks forward, shallow entries, reminded me a bit of 2023 when we were getting done by 3-4 goals every week regardless of opposition. Back then, we had a pretty good defensive profile too.

I agree the team is far from a finished polished product and th importance of certain players being available underlines (perhaps) a certain lack of depth in certain positions.

Still - the ris enough talent to make finals one would think and from there anything can happen.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Rnds 1- 4 were not as dire as first thought.

Despite the losses and the gloom that produces, they all felt like games we should have won.

Told some Cats supporters that the upset on Sunday was the narrowness of the margin, not the result. We are the sleeper. But we need to stay healthy.

That was our worst performance by some distance …in 8 games. The players literally did not turn up. But some people want Voss to burn. Laughable.