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Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

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As a regular VFL watcher I'd say he's doing enough to be selected if we need him but not enough that he's being hard done by if not selected.
I have also watched all but maybe 2 VFL games this season. And I am firmly in the camp that we need him. When you lose someone like Newman in the pre-season who is probably our best kick from D50 and you have Boyd just sitting there in the VFL it makes very little sense to me. What's the harm in just trying him to see if we can move the ball better out of D50 - it's not like Carlton are dominating without him.

And for me I wouldn't be dropping a defender to do it. I'd drop one of the small forwards (5 is too many) and play Ollie on the wing opening up a spot at HB.
 
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At one stage on the weekend, he had 25 touches for 0 score involvements, against the worst team in the comp. Doesn’t seem anywhere near as damaging this year as he has in previous seasons
Score involvements are a good stat but when you are playing in D50 for the vast majority of the game you can do everything right with your disposal but you are relying on a lot ahead of you to go right for it to be an official score involvement.
 
Score involvements are a good stat but when you are playing in D50 for the vast majority of the game you can do everything right with your disposal but you are relying on a lot ahead of you to go right for it to be an official score involvement.
We had 32 scoring shots, and he had 1 score involvement being our leading disposal getter. In the role you want him to play (replacing Ollie essentially) - gotta be getting more involved in scoring chains. Ollie gives us so much drive out of the back half at the seniors level. Boyd seems to struggle to do that at VFL level
 
We had 32 scoring shots, and he had 1 score involvement being our leading disposal getter. In the role you want him to play (replacing Ollie essentially) - gotta be getting more involved in scoring chains. Ollie gives us so much drive out of the back half at the seniors level. Boyd seems to struggle to do that at VFL level
Ollie is doing a great job but everything he is doing well now also can be translated to a wing role. And then his disposal which isn't the best doesn't hurt you as much. It's all about maximising the strengths of players and minimising the impact of their deficiencies on team performance. I don't think we are doing that at the moment.

And again I would not be objecting at all if the team was performing at a high level. But they aren't at the moment. So what are we losing if we try change it up a bit?
 

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When Boyd played seniors he was used more in a lockdown role.

I don't reckon we've ever actually tried him at a rebounding/creative role for an extended period.

If we have, then he's either not used enough, or just can't get to the right spots.

Still not sure why he hasn't been tried forward of center, where he can be effective i50 and be within scoring range himself, but anyway.
 
We had 32 scoring shots, and he had 1 score involvement being our leading disposal getter. In the role you want him to play (replacing Ollie essentially) - gotta be getting more involved in scoring chains. Ollie gives us so much drive out of the back half at the seniors level. Boyd seems to struggle to do that at VFL level
I’d play Boyd over Docherty, just my two cents
 
I’d play Boyd over Docherty, just my two cents
I'd play Boyd ahead of half the back line at the moment. As much as I've loved seeing Carroll get some games if we are indeed in the 'win now' mode, theres no way I can justify selecting him ahead of Boyd who's a far more reliable defender and distributor out of the back line.

Boyd's non selection has been puzzling at best.
 
I'd play Boyd ahead of half the back line at the moment. As much as I've loved seeing Carroll get some games if we are indeed in the 'win now' mode, theres no way I can justify selecting him ahead of Boyd who's a far more reliable defender and distributor out of the back line.

Boyd's non selection has been puzzling at best.
30 possessions at 86% DE is elite from his last game also. Should be playing 1sts
 
Ollie is doing a great job but everything he is doing well now also can be translated to a wing role. And then his disposal which isn't the best doesn't hurt you as much. It's all about maximising the strengths of players and minimising the impact of their deficiencies on team performance. I don't think we are doing that at the moment.

And again I would not be objecting at all if the team was performing at a high level. But they aren't at the moment. So what are we losing if we try change it up a bit?
Not really. Wing is a more defensive role in the AFL these days. As a half-back Ollie has much more freedom to be creative and get involved in transition. It's why you dont see many guns playing wing anymore.
 
Not really. Wing is a more defensive role in the AFL these days. As a half-back Ollie has much more freedom to be creative and gen involved in transition.
Fat side wing is defensive. Skinny side gets involved plenty as we've seen with Acres the last few years.

I expect once we've fixed our half back issues and Newman is back that we'll see Ollie return to the wing but play close to stoppage rather than out wide. Looking forward to it immensely, he's really added to his game this year playing down back. Seems to have gained a step with his running too.
 
Not really. Wing is a more defensive role in the AFL these days. As a half-back Ollie has much more freedom to be creative and get involved in transition. It's why you dont see many guns playing wing anymore.
Errol Gulden is one of the more offensively skilled players in the league and has played predominantly as a winger throughout that time. Even last year he only attended 36% of CBAs and the year before it was the same. The very best wingers can get back and support the defence but are also involved in transition the other way.

But again my argument is centred around the total team structure. I would prefer Boyd at HB and Hollands on a wing than Hollands at HB and a Durdin/White/Fogarty/Motlop/Fantasia-type in the team. Boyd will impact our team far more than any of those small forwards on a consistent basis imo - especially with no Newman atm.
 
I'd play Boyd ahead of half the back line at the moment. As much as I've loved seeing Carroll get some games if we are indeed in the 'win now' mode, theres no way I can justify selecting him ahead of Boyd who's a far more reliable defender and distributor out of the back line.

Boyd's non selection has been puzzling at best.
If he’s playing well in the VFL, you’d think that he’d be an automatic selection for the seniors. Is there another reason why he isn’t playing? Has he shat in his copy book somehow?
 

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I wonder if the issue for Boyd is that we're trying a different method of transition. He's never really been a run and carry type, he doesn't take ground by foot. He can hit a sweet pass when the chance arises, but at AFL level he's never really been one to accumulate much of the ball.

Seems maybe from a gameplan perspective we're using Ollie off halfback because he's the type who can take the ball and then take 20m by foot before kicking, thereby bypassing the zone defence.

I dunno which is "better", but when you look at what other sides are doing currently, there seems to be a real desire for blokes who can carry the ball and then hit a pass, over guys who get the ball and have the zone compress on them.
 

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1 score involvement, against the worst side in the VFL
It’s not his fault though is it?!? And it still doesn’t change the fact he was going at an elite level now does it…

Spin it however you like, but maybe blame the players ahead of the ball that are messing up the chain rather than the one going and getting it and correctly giving it to a team mate rather than turning it over.

Score involvement is a puss stat that only looks good if you have very good players ahead of you. Getting marked on other players good or bad efforts is ridiculous
 
is it that bad that it cant be revealed/discussed here?
I have no evidence of anything more than I said and was more attitudanal in the sense of lacking an AFL attitude. That is not say Boyd can not resurrect but there is some sense in his non selection that can interpreted as player development
 
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I have no evidence of anything more than I said and was more attitudanal in the sense of lacking an AFL attitude. That is not say Boyd can not resurrect but there is some sense in his non selection that can interpreted as player development

Surprising given the feel-good story of the kid from Spotswood overlooked in multiple drafts and finally making it.
 
I wonder if the issue for Boyd is that we're trying a different method of transition. He's never really been a run and carry type, he doesn't take ground by foot. He can hit a sweet pass when the chance arises, but at AFL level he's never really been one to accumulate much of the ball.

Seems maybe from a gameplan perspective we're using Ollie off halfback because he's the type who can take the ball and then take 20m by foot before kicking, thereby bypassing the zone defence.

I dunno which is "better", but when you look at what other sides are doing currently, there seems to be a real desire for blokes who can carry the ball and then hit a pass, over guys who get the ball and have the zone compress on them.
I don't think it's a footballing issue. Boyd can run and gun, so that isn't a problem.
 
As others have said his form has been reasonable but not smash the door down good, last week was great but the opposition were terrible but still a big tick.

Boyd did have a purple patch last year or the year before but his kicking isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be. I like his defensive efforts and should be used offensively coming out of defence but he and Saad didn’t often get the chance to shine for whatever reason.

I would replace him with Doc who I just can’t see why we play him in the seniors anymore, I love him, he’s an awesome clubman but his decline has been obvious and would be such a great role model and leader for the younger players in the 2’s.
 
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Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3


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