Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

[heatleystandend]

I think the issue with Boyd is he is a great kick but doesnt win enough of the ball so you can't rely on him as a main rebounder out of defence and he doesnt provide alot else. Hes not bad in other areas but his lack of ball winning really does blunt his main strength.

Yep, Boyd is a Big Footy myth. He is an average footballer at best. Apart from his kicking he has no real AFL traits (tries hard).

I love the ‘play him in the quarter back role’ comments before every team selection. He simply can’t find the footy enough to cause any damage in that role.

He might have had a bad preseason but others have gone past him and offer more. Sometimes things are as simple as that.

 

[Dramoth]

Yep, Boyd is a Big Footy myth. He is an average footballer at best. Apart from his kicking he has no real AFL traits (tries hard).

I love the ‘play him in the quarter back role’ comments before every team selection. He simply can’t find the footy enough to cause any damage in that role.

He might have had a bad preseason but others have gone past him and offer more. Sometimes things are as simple as that.

Carroll is already as good, if not better than him off a couple of games. Give Carroll more games and experience and he'll be finding the time and space to be deadly coming out of the back half. But as people have said, he's been playing well in the VFL and on form should warrant a call up to the senior squad, but he's not being called up.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

At one stage on the weekend, he had 25 touches for 0 score involvements, against the worst team in the comp. Doesn’t seem anywhere near as damaging this year as he has in previous seasons

Boyd, Billy and Ethan do pump their disposal and marking stats up considerably by utilising each other in the 15m chip passing chains. Also kick-ins from behinds in regard to the first two.
I'm not suggesting that this part of transition out of defence is unnecessary, but it does give a false reading when comparing player's stats from other parts of the ground.

 

[carlton_99]

Yep, Boyd is a Big Footy myth. He is an average footballer at best. Apart from his kicking he has no real AFL traits (tries hard).

I love the ‘play him in the quarter back role’ comments before every team selection. He simply can’t find the footy enough to cause any damage in that role.

He might have had a bad preseason but others have gone past him and offer more. Sometimes things are as simple as that.

When has he ever played in that role in the senior team for us to know? He had 30 disposals in the VFL on the weekend so clearly doesn't have trouble finding it. It's just every time he's in the senior team we play him as a lockdown defender. With Newman missing there was an obvious role for him down there where we could have used him more offensively. But he's just not getting picked.

 

[JJBagger]

Boyd, Billy and Ethan do pump their disposal and marking stats up considerably by utilising each other in the 15m chip passing chains. Also kick-ins from behinds in regard to the first two.
I'm not suggesting that this part of transition out of defence is unnecessary, but it does give a false reading when comparing player's stats from other parts of the ground.

That’s what I’m saying. Boyd’s a fantastic kick, but he seems to lack power and carry - something that’s been obvious this season.

 

[Blue__Balls]

When has he ever played in that role in the senior team for us to know? He had 30 disposals in the VFL on the weekend so clearly doesn't have trouble finding it. It's just every time he's in the senior team we play him as a lockdown defender. With Newman missing there was an obvious role for him down there where we could have used him more offensively. But he's just not getting picked.

Do we? Or is this just one of those things people assume or lean on to explain his low output?

When the opposition kicks a behind, or one of our talls marks it deep in defence, I can pretty much guarantee that Boyd's instructions are not to lock down on the opposition small forward. In the modern game, rebound is king and every player is expected to provide an option - be it on the 45 degree kick back for a switch, or the short 15-20m outlet kick on the boundary, or running past for a handball receive. No defender is tasked with "locking down" a forward when we win the ball back in defense.

I think Boyd is either not getting to the right spots in transition to get fed the ball, or more likely, he simply doesn't have the tools and traits to either break away from, or outright beat, whichever player is locking him down when we have the ball.

 

[carlton_99]

Do we? Or is this just one of those things people assume or lean on to explain his low output?

When the opposition kicks a behind, or one of our talls marks it deep in defence, I can pretty much guarantee that Boyd's instructions are not to lock down on the opposition small forward. In the modern game, rebound is king and every player is expected to provide an option - be it on the 45 degree kick back for a switch, or the short 15-20m outlet kick on the boundary, or running past for a handball receive. No defender is tasked with "locking down" a forward when we win the ball back in defense.

I think Boyd is either not getting to the right spots in transition to get fed the ball, or more likely, he simply doesn't have the tools and traits to either break away from, or outright beat, whichever player is locking him down when we have the ball.

I have seen the same thing with Saad so that's why I have to put it on the instructions. Saad was an elite offensive HB when he came across and got turned into a more defensive HB. His defensive skills improved significantly from * days but he has lost that linebreaking run/rebound. I see the same thing with how we use Boyd. For me that's evidence it's more instruction than personnel as we know for a fact Saad can do it and isn't in our current system.

 

[JJBagger]

I have seen the same thing with Saad so that's why I have to put it on the instructions. Saad was an elite offensive HB when he came across and got turned into a more defensive HB. His defensive skills improved significantly from * days but he has lost that linebreaking run/rebound. I see the same thing with how we use Boyd. For me that's evidence it's more instruction than personnel as we know for a fact Saad can do it and isn't in our current system.

Saad was AA in 2022, and was still an elite half back in 23. It seems like he’s been physically limited since his soft tissue injuries last year

 

[carlton_99]

Saad was AA in 2022, and was still an elite half back in 23. It seems like he’s been physically limited since his soft tissue injuries last year

I do think he's been elite at HB for a lot of his time at Carlton. I love the improvement in his defensive ability. But even in his AA year I didn't feel like he ever hit his full offensive potential at Carlton and hasn't since (injuries obviously a factor)

 

[outabounds]

Where is Elijah at? Will we not see him again this year? 5 games is not good reading for the year. i'm concerned he may not be back which would be a massive loss and such a shame.

 

[myblueroan]

Where is Elijah at? Will we not see him again this year? 5 games is not good reading for the year. i'm concerned he may not be back which would be a massive loss and such a shame.

C4 put in rumour file he doubted Lij would be back.

I hope he can get back. A great player for us.

 

[RPCB]

C4 put in rumour file he doubted Lij would be back.

I hope he can get back. A great player for us.

Maybe he can shape up and show us what a great player he is. But apparently not until next year.

Until that time comes, he’s been disappointing.

 

[Coona Blues]

Maybe he can shape up and show us what a great player he is. But apparently not until next year.

Until that time comes, he’s been disappointing.

Elijah is going to be quite pivotal as we go through a list progression over the next couple of years. If he does not overcome his issues, we will be much the poorer for it. He is crucial as a link player although is more than just a connector.

His “recovery” is ultra important to our group.

 

[bluebunz]

When we’re crying out for elite ball use, whatever his shortcomings, it’s on the coaching staff to find a spot and utilise Boyd’s skills to elevate our output. It’d be a shame for him to land elsewhere next year (hello Saints) and slot straight in…

 

[JJBagger]

When we’re crying out for elite ball use, whatever his shortcomings, it’s on the coaching staff to find a spot and utilise Boyd’s skills to elevate our output. It’d be a shame for him to land elsewhere next year (hello Saints) and slot straight in…

So? We have 1000 problems bigger than Jordan Boyd not playing. Also, why are we so worried that every player that leaves will end up at the saints and slot straight in? We’ve lost 3 players to the saints, and none of them have made a meaningful impact

 

[plentyblckie]

1 score involvement, against the worst side in the VFL

One of the most overrated stat there is

 

[JJBagger]

One of the most overrated stat there is

Not as overrated as disposal efficiency

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I have also watched all but maybe 2 VFL games this season. And I am firmly in the camp that we need him. When you lose someone like Newman in the pre-season who is probably our best kick from D50 and you have Boyd just sitting there in the VFL it makes very little sense to me. What's the harm in just trying him to see if we can move the ball better out of D50 - it's not like Carlton are dominating without him.

And for me I wouldn't be dropping a defender to do it. I'd drop one of the small forwards (5 is too many) and play Ollie on the wing opening up a spot at HB.

His kicking has been shit and there's the problem. 2023 he was rated best in the comp. Last year his kicks were near the bottom for exiting 50 and kicks going inside 50, and this year in the vfl again. His weighting has gone out the window. Even last week he's taking on short kicks to attacking spots and just kicking them over his targets head

 

[JustaBattler]

His kicking has been shit and there's the problem. 2023 he was rated best in the comp. Last year his kicks were near the bottom for exiting 50 and kicks going inside 50, and this year in the vfl again. His weighting has gone out the window. Even last week he's taking on short kicks to attacking spots and just kicking them over his targets head

Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story on here

 

[Matty411]

Yep, Boyd is a Big Footy myth. He is an average footballer at best. Apart from his kicking he has no real AFL traits (tries hard).

I love the ‘play him in the quarter back role’ comments before every team selection. He simply can’t find the footy enough to cause any damage in that role.

He might have had a bad preseason but others have gone past him and offer more. Sometimes things are as simple as that.

Clearly can but has only shown that at VFL level - AFL a totally different kettle of fish, sure. But to say he can't find it enough isn't totally true. More about hasn't shown he can at AFL level yet.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

His kicking has been shit and there's the problem. 2023 he was rated best in the comp. Last year his kicks were near the bottom for exiting 50 and kicks going inside 50, and this year in the vfl again. His weighting has gone out the window. Even last week he's taking on short kicks to attacking spots and just kicking them over his targets head

Boyd was rated the best kick last year though

“Miles ahead”: Carlton has the best kick in the competition coming out of defence and must use him more

“Across the season, Carlton are 12th in scoring from their back half at the moment.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Boyd was rated the best kick last year though

No... That was 2023 he was in graphics for some of the biggest fall offs in ball use quality all of last season... Those shithouse footy shows that are late to news and need it bloody obvious even did a couple segments on his drop off.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

No... That was 2023 he was in graphics for some of the biggest fall offs in ball use quality all of last season... Those shithouse footy shows that are late to news and need it bloody obvious even did a couple segments on his drop off.

2024

“Miles ahead”: Carlton has the best kick in the competition coming out of defence and must use him more

“Across the season, Carlton are 12th in scoring from their back half at the moment.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[carlton_99]

His kicking has been shit and there's the problem. 2023 he was rated best in the comp. Last year his kicks were near the bottom for exiting 50 and kicks going inside 50, and this year in the vfl again. His weighting has gone out the window. Even last week he's taking on short kicks to attacking spots and just kicking them over his targets head

Do you have a source for this because I highly doubt anyone would be evaluating Boyd's kicking inside 50 considering he only averaged 0.9 inside 50s per game in 2024. It's such a small sample. And also where do you find these rankings for the VFL this season?

And when was he near the bottom for kicks from D50? Champion Data had him as #1 for that in 2024.

 

[Stamos]

2024

“Miles ahead”: Carlton has the best kick in the competition coming out of defence and must use him more

“Across the season, Carlton are 12th in scoring from their back half at the moment.”

www.sen.com.au

Start of May 2024.
Dropped way off later in the year.