Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

[Blue By Blood]

POTY
B&F has always been irrelevant for mine.
More often than not used by coaches as a tool to justify their decisions … rightly or wrongly.
Someone wins the B&F at wooden spoon clubs every season … so what … who cares !!
A midfield including Cripps, Cerra and Hewett doesn’t cut the mustard.
Tough clubs make tough decisions.
We live in hope …

The point I was making which a few seemed to gloss over on purpose or simply misinterpreted.. that clearly if he finished that high (rightly or wrongly) then the coaching group rate him by whatever metrics they have in place to value player performance. That's pretty much an indisputable fact. Which goes back to the point that it will be hard for him to be displaced from the team. Even if the BnF count is to justify a coaches decisions then that just further proves the point that he will be hard to dislodge from the team. Now clearly some want Lord in over Cerra and that's fine but it doesn't mean the facts need to be ignored. Coaches do develop favourites and Cerra is obviously very rated internally.

Should he have finished 3rd in the BnF. Probably not. I would have had him somewhere around that mark though because like you say it was a very lean year from pretty much the whole squad.

A midfield group of Cripps, Cerra, and Hewett doesn't cut the mustard with our current terrible ball movement. I'd expect it to look improved with a more dynamic system of ball movement though. Plus it won't always be those 3.. hopefully we rotate deeper than we have previously and keep our players fresh. Walsh Jagga, Lord will spend good chunks there. There are also some other guys who will/should get some bursts on ball. I don't completely buy into the midfield being crap when more often than not it comes down to ball movement. The Hawks in the prelim this year had Newcombe, Worpel, Ward.. are they significantly better kicks or players than the three we have been mentioning? Or are they able to play their roles and look good enough because of how the Hawks move the ball? I guess we will get a better look at that once we see how the team goes playing a new style. Then we can work out the right mix and who can and who can't take us further.

 

[Red Bull]

The point I was making which a few seemed to gloss over on purpose or simply misinterpreted.. that clearly if he finished that high (rightly or wrongly) then the coaching group rate him by whatever metrics they have in place to value player performance. That's pretty much an indisputable fact. Which goes back to the point that it will be hard for him to be displaced from the team. Even if the BnF count is to justify a coaches decisions then that just further proves the point that he will be hard to dislodge from the team. Now clearly some want Lord in over Cerra and that's fine but it doesn't mean the facts need to be ignored. Coaches do develop favourites and Cerra is obviously very rated internally.

Should he have finished 3rd in the BnF. Probably not. I would have had him somewhere around that mark though because like you say it was a very lean year from pretty much the whole squad.

A midfield group of Cripps, Cerra, and Hewett doesn't cut the mustard with our current terrible ball movement. I'd expect it to look improved with a more dynamic system of ball movement though. Plus it won't always be those 3.. hopefully we rotate deeper than we have previously and keep our players fresh. Walsh Jagga, Lord will spend good chunks there. There are also some other guys who will/should get some bursts on ball. I don't completely buy into the midfield being crap when more often than not it comes down to ball movement. The Hawks in the prelim this year had Newcombe, Worpel, Ward.. are they significantly better kicks or players than the three we have been mentioning? Or are they able to play their roles and look good enough because of how the Hawks move the ball? I guess we will get a better look at that once we see how the team goes playing a new style. Then we can work out the right mix and who can and who can't take us further.

I agree with your main point, like i do with most of your posting here, that his B&F finish would see him hard to displace from the team.
Just another issue with the B&F concept IMO.
Personally, Hewett, not Cerra, is the one I’d be looking to phase out in favour of more game time for Lord but again, his B&F finish won’t allow for this.
I’d love to see the B&F concept done away with altogether.
It’s primarily individual in a team sport and can be used manipulatively in so many ways to achieve desired outcomes.
Hoping Walsh commits sooner rather than later, looking forward to Smith and hoping for more of Lord with Cripps and Cerra providing the experience.
It will ultimately be all to no avail though if Voss and his coaching team don’t get their acts together …

 

[Coona Blues]

I agree with your main point, like i do with most of your posting here, that his B&F finish would see him hard to displace from the team.
Just another issue with the B&F concept IMO.
Personally, Hewett, not Cerra, is the one I’d be looking to phase out in favour of more game time for Lord but again, his B&F finish won’t allow for this.
I’d love to see the B&F concept done away with altogether.
It’s primarily individual in a team sport and can be used manipulatively in so many ways to achieve desired outcomes.
Hoping Walsh commits sooner rather than later, looking forward to Smith and hoping for more of Lord with Cripps and Cerra providing the experience.
It will ultimately be all to no avail though if Voss and his coaching team don’t get their acts together …

There will be a massive test of our coaching/management group in the coming couple of years.

Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Walsh are top level players in their own right. They are all first string mids and will be for at least a couple more years. Unfortunately, as a group, they are somewhat pedestrian, and more importantly, do not work hard enough defensively, in terms of ground coverage.

We have Jagga Smith, likely to add a new dimension in ball movement very soon. While some here are less than complimentary, Cooper Lord has already shown a combative nature, a willingness to work both ways, a distinguishable upgrade athletically on Cripps and Hewett, possibly Cerra too. His disposal and vision is absolutely an upgrade. Lord’s ability to identify and hit forward targets has been undersold by many here. I also expect Ben Camporeale to put together a massive case for senior selection in the near future. Cody Walker the following season is a star in the making, although it will not be a huge problem if he has to do an apprenticeship before going inside.

With pinch hitters like Zac Williams, and to a lesser extent Motlop, Fogarty and Evans joined by Ainsworth and possibly Chesser we are nit short of options. Then I can mention Moir, who is ready for some time in the guts and Ison likely to be considered and option in the future. Both are bigger bodies who can complement a more mobile midfield group.

The way the game has gone, we are very likely to have to change up our mix, meaning some of the “veterans” are going to have their tenure questioned. The advent of a Tassie team may offer an opportunity for a couple of inside “hard men” a good superannuation pay day with the franchise. The market for pedestrian inside bulls is diminishing, so surely we would look at the possibility of obtaining some draft collateral from our senior group.

I do not want to disrespect our senior mids, but something has to give to add run, disposal ability and defensive work rate to our group. Surely the times of deploying wingers to cover defensively for the entire midfield is outdated. We need our outside players to be greater offensive options.

 

[Red Bull]

There will be a massive test of our coaching/management group in the coming couple of years.

Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Walsh are top level players in their own right. They are all first string mids and will be for at least a couple more years. Unfortunately, as a group, they are somewhat pedestrian, and more importantly, do not work hard enough defensively, in terms of ground coverage.

We have Jagga Smith, likely to add a new dimension in ball movement very soon. While some here are less than complimentary, Cooper Lord has already shown a combative nature, a willingness to work both ways, a distinguishable upgrade athletically on Cripps and Hewett, possibly Cerra too. His disposal and vision is absolutely an upgrade. Lord’s ability to identify and hit forward targets has been undersold by many here. I also expect Ben Camporeale to put together a massive case for senior selection in the near future. Cody Walker the following season is a star in the making, although it will not be a huge problem if he has to do an apprenticeship before going inside.

With pinch hitters like Zac Williams, and to a lesser extent Motlop, Fogarty and Evans joined by Ainsworth and possibly Chesser we are nit short of options. Then I can mention Moir, who is ready for some time in the guts and Ison likely to be considered and option in the future. Both are bigger bodies who can complement a more mobile midfield group.

The way the game has gone, we are very likely to have to change up our mix, meaning some of the “veterans” are going to have their tenure questioned. The advent of a Tassie team may offer an opportunity for a couple of inside “hard men” a good superannuation pay day with the franchise. The market for pedestrian inside bulls is diminishing, so surely we would look at the possibility of obtaining some draft collateral from our senior group.

I do not want to disrespect our senior mids, but something has to give to add run, disposal ability and defensive work rate to our group. Surely the times of deploying wingers to cover defensively for the entire midfield is outdated. We need our outside players to be greater offensive options.

Your appraisal of Lord is right on the money Coona.
Feel his elevation is needed in the evolution of the team going forward.
Hoping the new faces in the football department add some steel where and when it counts …

 

[yibbida]

Cooper Lord has already shown a combative nature, a willingness to work both ways, a distinguishable upgrade athletically on Cripps

I know it's the off-season, but lol.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

There will be a massive test of our coaching/management group in the coming couple of years.

Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Walsh are top level players in their own right. They are all first string mids and will be for at least a couple more years. Unfortunately, as a group, they are somewhat pedestrian, and more importantly, do not work hard enough defensively, in terms of ground coverage.

We have Jagga Smith, likely to add a new dimension in ball movement very soon. While some here are less than complimentary, Cooper Lord has already shown a combative nature, a willingness to work both ways, a distinguishable upgrade athletically on Cripps and Hewett, possibly Cerra too. His disposal and vision is absolutely an upgrade. Lord’s ability to identify and hit forward targets has been undersold by many here. I also expect Ben Camporeale to put together a massive case for senior selection in the near future. Cody Walker the following season is a star in the making, although it will not be a huge problem if he has to do an apprenticeship before going inside.

With pinch hitters like Zac Williams, and to a lesser extent Motlop, Fogarty and Evans joined by Ainsworth and possibly Chesser we are nit short of options. Then I can mention Moir, who is ready for some time in the guts and Ison likely to be considered and option in the future. Both are bigger bodies who can complement a more mobile midfield group.

The way the game has gone, we are very likely to have to change up our mix, meaning some of the “veterans” are going to have their tenure questioned. The advent of a Tassie team may offer an opportunity for a couple of inside “hard men” a good superannuation pay day with the franchise. The market for pedestrian inside bulls is diminishing, so surely we would look at the possibility of obtaining some draft collateral from our senior group.

I do not want to disrespect our senior mids, but something has to give to add run, disposal ability and defensive work rate to our group. Surely the times of deploying wingers to cover defensively for the entire midfield is outdated. We need our outside players to be greater offensive options.

I really don't see what Cerra brings for us - even when he gets plenty of the ball nothing really dynamic happens, I would be looking to play Lord and Smith (potentially Ison) ahead of him in 2026.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

The point I was making which a few seemed to gloss over on purpose or simply misinterpreted.. that clearly if he finished that high (rightly or wrongly) then the coaching group rate him by whatever metrics they have in place to value player performance. That's pretty much an indisputable fact. Which goes back to the point that it will be hard for him to be displaced from the team. Even if the BnF count is to justify a coaches decisions then that just further proves the point that he will be hard to dislodge from the team. Now clearly some want Lord in over Cerra and that's fine but it doesn't mean the facts need to be ignored. Coaches do develop favourites and Cerra is obviously very rated internally.

Should he have finished 3rd in the BnF. Probably not. I would have had him somewhere around that mark though because like you say it was a very lean year from pretty much the whole squad.

A midfield group of Cripps, Cerra, and Hewett doesn't cut the mustard with our current terrible ball movement. I'd expect it to look improved with a more dynamic system of ball movement though. Plus it won't always be those 3.. hopefully we rotate deeper than we have previously and keep our players fresh. Walsh Jagga, Lord will spend good chunks there. There are also some other guys who will/should get some bursts on ball. I don't completely buy into the midfield being crap when more often than not it comes down to ball movement. The Hawks in the prelim this year had Newcombe, Worpel, Ward.. are they significantly better kicks or players than the three we have been mentioning? Or are they able to play their roles and look good enough because of how the Hawks move the ball? I guess we will get a better look at that once we see how the team goes playing a new style. Then we can work out the right mix and who can and who can't take us further.

" Coaches do develop favourites and Cerra is obviously very rated internally." My question would be - what is one word that sums up Cerra - Cripps is a "beast", Walsh just "runs", Hewett is "reliable" - to me Cerra is "nothing"

 

[Blue By Blood]

" Coaches do develop favourites and Cerra is obviously very rated internally." My question would be - what is one word that sums up Cerra - Cripps is a "beast", Walsh just "runs", Hewett is "reliable" - to me Cerra is "nothing"

I agree he is a bit bland. At his best he should be a bit of a hybrid- Cripps lite in terms of beast/contested work but more capable on the outside. But he tends to not use his weapons as effectively as he should so he's a bit vanilla.

But he is clearly rated by the coaches etc so that's the main point I've been making.

 

[agro]

" Coaches do develop favourites and Cerra is obviously very rated internally." My question would be - what is one word that sums up Cerra - Cripps is a "beast", Walsh just "runs", Hewett is "reliable" - to me Cerra is "nothing"

A bit like Nick Bargatze’s take on George Washington Adam Cerra needs to come up with his own word, and “nothing”, “vanilla” and “bland” shouldn’t be any of them.