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Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

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gbatman said:
I think the solution is to recruit. Go all in on Walker and Butters next year and the biggest issue we have had for the last 5 years is finally solved.

In the short term we will get to use the bigger bench and play an extra forward and rotate forwards through the middle more. Moir, Williams, Smith, Motlop, Byrne, Ison, maybe Hayward and Florrent. I think we pretty much have to have one of the forward rotations in there nearly all the time.

This means some of the one paced and slow onballers have to be dropped out. This is all our onball group apart from Walsh.
Click to expand...

I agree with most. Butters at his best is a star. Would make a difference

However, he will cost 3-4 very good picks (PA will match) and 2 mill a year. That restricts us dramatically. We have been down this path and hasn’t worked. He will be 26-27 in 2027 and is injury prone. I wouldn’t do it

We also need to keep Walsh. Walsh Cerra Lord Jagga is a very good core

Walker will be a great addition. I believe Ainsworth is a very good mid and can add minutes. Key will be how quick and good Moir Ison BenC Cheeser Ollie Wilson (Elijah?) can become and is there cheap young options that may be guns? Can we look outside square and throw Cowan in there?

My take is our list will be ready to challenge in 27/28. Will Cripps/Hewett still be top players by then? If not we need to start moving past them. I believe that by mid 26 we can’t be playing both of them each week

With a coach fighting to keep his job it’s not an easy decision to make
 
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Soapy V said:
I agree with most. Butters at his best is a star. Would make a difference

However, he will cost 3-4 very good picks (PA will match) and 2 mill a year. That restricts us dramatically. We have been down this path and hasn’t worked. He will be 26-27 in 2027 and is injury prone. I wouldn’t do it

We also need to keep Walsh. Walsh Cerra Lord Jagga is a very good core

Walker will be a great addition. I believe Ainsworth is a very good mid and can add minutes. Key will be how quick and good Moir Ison BenC Cheeser Ollie Wilson (Elijah?) can become and is there cheap young options that may be guns? Can we look outside square and throw Cowan in there?

My take is our list will be ready to challenge in 27/28. Will Cripps/Hewett still be top players by then? If not we need to start moving past them. I believe that by mid 26 we can’t be playing both of them each week

With a coach fighting to keep his job it’s not an easy decision to make
Click to expand...
Speaking to an ex-premiership player a few weeks ago and he was on the same page Soap. Also mentioned we should have moved Cripps on. I don’t and didn’t agree with the Cripps statement, but I feel Hewett should have been reviewed. Just can’t play another position. Lord and Ben C need exposure ASAP and we cannot and should not play 3 or 4 of these types together. Will be interesting to see how the coaches manage this.
 
SurreyBlue said:
Speaking to an ex-premiership player a few weeks ago and he was on the same page Soap. Also mentioned we should have moved Cripps on. I don’t and didn’t agree with the Cripps statement, but I feel Hewett should have been reviewed. Just can’t play another position. Lord and Ben C need exposure ASAP and we cannot and should not play 3 or 4 of these types together. Will be interesting to see how the coaches manage this.
Click to expand...
I’m with you Surrey, how could you think of moving on Cripps after he won his second Brownlow in 2024.

I still think he could be of value playing 70% up forward and less time in the midfield. His height, strength, smarts and contested ability deep in the forward line would be a handful for defenders and setup opportunities for our smaller forwards.

I also think it would be great for Harry’s game knowing Crippa was there supporting, providing a second target and applying forward pressure.

At least playing Crippa forward helps the team in two areas. Better than just moving him on, it could be a great next chapter in Crippa’s footy career.
 

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GoBlues! said:
I’m with you Surrey, how could you think of moving on Cripps after he won his second Brownlow in 2024.

I still think he could be of value playing 70% up forward and less time in the midfield. His height, strength, smarts and contested ability deep in the forward line would be a handful for defenders and setup opportunities for our smaller forwards.

I also think it would be great for Harry’s game knowing Crippa was there supporting, providing a second target and applying forward pressure.

At least playing Crippa forward helps the team in two areas. Better than just moving him on, it could be a great next chapter in Crippa’s footy career.
Click to expand...

I agree. Cripps should be playing a lot more forward in 2026

Allows more mid time for Lord etc and will help our forwards
 
Soapy V said:
I agree with most. Butters at his best is a star. Would make a difference

However, he will cost 3-4 very good picks (PA will match) and 2 mill a year. That restricts us dramatically. We have been down this path and hasn’t worked. He will be 26-27 in 2027 and is injury prone. I wouldn’t do it

We also need to keep Walsh. Walsh Cerra Lord Jagga is a very good core

Walker will be a great addition. I believe Ainsworth is a very good mid and can add minutes. Key will be how quick and good Moir Ison BenC Cheeser Ollie Wilson (Elijah?) can become and is there cheap young options that may be guns? Can we look outside square and throw Cowan in there?

My take is our list will be ready to challenge in 27/28. Will Cripps/Hewett still be top players by then? If not we need to start moving past them. I believe that by mid 26 we can’t be playing both of them each week

With a coach fighting to keep his job it’s not an easy decision to make
Click to expand...
I like that way of thinking. I think Walsh stays if he gets what he wants and what he wants looks to be a side which is a contender.

Butters is the right type and quality but probably can't be done. If we got close to doing it, it would allow us to trade from our onball group, not sure who we can lose who brings us a great deal though. It's something we need to look into but probably not doable on those figures.

Walsh, Cerra, Smith and Lord is fair. Is it up there with the best and able to deliver a premiership? I think it's one very high level damaging and fast player away from that, even with Walker coming in. We are probably somewhere around where Geelong were pre-Dangerfield with our midfied. They knew they had a fair midfield but knew it was one quick, powerful high level mid away from challenging. They were able to do it and fill in that spot and they remained contenders and won a flag. IMO we need to do the same, not just say we can't because we are a different club. Maybe it's a young player wanting to come home, not sure who but we need that midfielder to elevate us.

I think Walsh again gets targeted heavily from the opposition next year and that comes down to the other mids not being of the level or having the pace where they require tagging. That is my concern with Walsh, we need that extra explosive mature midfielder to make this go away. It could be the reason Walsh leaves, to get away from being the focus of opposition sides each week, which is not on him, it's on our recruiting.

Ideally I want to see Walker and Smith being more peripheral and spending some time in the middle in the early stages of their careers. Walker I am excited for, I think he will be one of those rare ready to go players. Ison I hope comes on quick and at a high level. If we get lucky and all three have a fast and strong impact, we don't need to outsource but that is asking a lot of some very young players.

You want to see Cripps forward more as well. I hope that there is some development there this off season as he is not a natural forward but impacts there sometimes yet inconsistently. Finding more consistent impact will come from training him there. This lines up with what I am hoping we do and play an extra forward and rotate forwards through the middle, nearly to the point where a forward is nearly always in there. This means Cripps can be a part of that rotation.

My take is the same, we should be aiming to challenge from 2027 onwards. But I think the coming season is super important. We should want to play finals. Has to be on the cards and is crucial to retaining players and recruiting. Missing finals this season would be underachieving, I rate our team this year, we should be in the 8.

With the importance of mobility and pace around stoppages and in general play now to provide run and carry on the offence and to provide closing speed and quality chasing on the defence yes. Cripps and Hewett are cannon fodder if we aren't getting first hands on the ball and when the quicker sides get a run on. Like every time we play Adelaide. Our issues may be that we have youth who tire and slow up but also have Cripps and Hewett as well as the other bar Walsh not having great pace.

I think we have some tough decisions to make trade wise. I think we have to land the right onballer for our list. Not sure who. I know Butters is a great example but not likely doable. Cowan you might throw in there if he is playing more of his footy deep in defence. I don't think it's a good idea having half backs in there too often as you want them running very hard when in their position at half back, not burning it on the ball. Sure could be part of the rotations on talent though.

I want to see Byrne be brought on quick as he is the sort our team needs. Genuine small forward but has massive ability in the middle. Moir, Motlop, Williams have all been working on onball skills and they have to go in there. Ainsworth is a yes for me too. I think you mentioned last year we had planned to put Newman in there a bit, is that still on?

There is a lot to scrutinise this season. Mainly where are we still too slow and immobile and where do we lack talent. I think we have recruited very well the last couple of seasons and particularly this season.
 
gbatman said:
I like that way of thinking. I think Walsh stays if he gets what he wants and what he wants looks to be a side which is a contender.

Butters is the right type and quality but probably can't be done. If we got close to doing it, it would allow us to trade from our onball group, not sure who we can lose who brings us a great deal though. It's something we need to look into but probably not doable on those figures.

Walsh, Cerra, Smith and Lord is fair. Is it up there with the best and able to deliver a premiership? I think it's one very high level damaging and fast player away from that, even with Walker coming in. We are probably somewhere around where Geelong were pre-Dangerfield with our midfied. They knew they had a fair midfield but knew it was one quick, powerful high level mid away from challenging. They were able to do it and fill in that spot and they remained contenders and won a flag. IMO we need to do the same, not just say we can't because we are a different club. Maybe it's a young player wanting to come home, not sure who but we need that midfielder to elevate us.

I think Walsh again gets targeted heavily from the opposition next year and that comes down to the other mids not being of the level or having the pace where they require tagging. That is my concern with Walsh, we need that extra explosive mature midfielder to make this go away. It could be the reason Walsh leaves, to get away from being the focus of opposition sides each week, which is not on him, it's on our recruiting.

Ideally I want to see Walker and Smith being more peripheral and spending some time in the middle in the early stages of their careers. Walker I am excited for, I think he will be one of those rare ready to go players. Ison I hope comes on quick and at a high level. If we get lucky and all three have a fast and strong impact, we don't need to outsource but that is asking a lot of some very young players.

You want to see Cripps forward more as well. I hope that there is some development there this off season as he is not a natural forward but impacts there sometimes yet inconsistently. Finding more consistent impact will come from training him there. This lines up with what I am hoping we do and play an extra forward and rotate forwards through the middle, nearly to the point where a forward is nearly always in there. This means Cripps can be a part of that rotation.

My take is the same, we should be aiming to challenge from 2027 onwards. But I think the coming season is super important. We should want to play finals. Has to be on the cards and is crucial to retaining players and recruiting. Missing finals this season would be underachieving, I rate our team this year, we should be in the 8.

With the importance of mobility and pace around stoppages and in general play now to provide run and carry on the offence and to provide closing speed and quality chasing on the defence yes. Cripps and Hewett are cannon fodder if we aren't getting first hands on the ball and when the quicker sides get a run on. Like every time we play Adelaide. Our issues may be that we have youth who tire and slow up but also have Cripps and Hewett as well as the other bar Walsh not having great pace.

I think we have some tough decisions to make trade wise. I think we have to land the right onballer for our list. Not sure who. I know Butters is a great example but not likely doable. Cowan you might throw in there if he is playing more of his footy deep in defence. I don't think it's a good idea having half backs in there too often as you want them running very hard when in their position at half back, not burning it on the ball. Sure could be part of the rotations on talent though.

I want to see Byrne be brought on quick as he is the sort our team needs. Genuine small forward but has massive ability in the middle. Moir, Motlop, Williams have all been working on onball skills and they have to go in there. Ainsworth is a yes for me too. I think you mentioned last year we had planned to put Newman in there a bit, is that still on?

There is a lot to scrutinise this season. Mainly where are we still too slow and immobile and where do we lack talent. I think we have recruited very well the last couple of seasons and particularly this season.
Click to expand...

Good post.

As I said the key for me is now Ison, Chesser, Ollie, Wilson, BenC and a few others. Can any of them step up? Ison looks something special but only time will tell

Walsh is a workhorse gun if he can stay fit
Cerra if is a very good support mid
Jagga brings what we need an will be a star
Lord is an inside midfielder with okay leg speed but elite hands
Walker looks awesome but a year away

What would be good is to add a cheap young player from another club that steps up. Hewett was a free hit. Is there a 23 year old just itching for a chance?
 
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Soapy V said:
Good post.

As I said the key for me is now Ison, Chesser, Ollie, Wilson, BenC and a few others. Can any of them step up? Ison looks something special but only time will tell

Walsh is a workhorse gun if he can stay fit
Cerra if is a very good support mid
Jagga brings what we need an will be a star
Lord is an inside midfielder with okay leg speed but elite hands
Walker looks awesome but a year away

What would be good is to add a cheap young player from another club that steps up. Hewett was a free hit. Is there a 23 year old just itching for a chance?
Click to expand...

Agree with all that - but I think Cerra needs to really lift and get to the next level - I think he’s better than a 20-25 possession player and should be able to push up to 25-30 possession type player.
 

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Soapy V said:
Good post.

As I said the key for me is now Ison, Chesser, Ollie, Wilson, BenC and a few others. Can any of them step up? Ison looks something special but only time will tell

Walsh is a workhorse gun if he can stay fit
Cerra if is a very good support mid
Jagga brings what we need an will be a star
Lord is an inside midfielder with okay leg speed but elite hands
Walker looks awesome but a year away

What would be good is to add a cheap young player from another club that steps up. Hewett was a free hit. Is there a 23 year old just itching for a chance?
Click to expand...

Interesting to see what we do at years end in regards to targeting midfielders. Keen to see what Ben Camporeale can do and you would hope that he starts to look like a Cripps/Hewett replacement. Cerra is a decent support mid but I am not sure he has the elite closing speed for loose balls and applying pressure. Walsh is our standout mid and point of difference, it's why opposition teams focus on him. Smith I think will bring a lot, but we need to hold back on a young, light framed player who has not played a game yet. Lord I like, have from day dot. Walker will be next level.

Chesser is a great get, not sure where he plays, most likely wing, half back and spends time forward, perhaps in the middle? Ollie is half back first and wing second and that is his spot. Wilson I like. Half back but perhaps wing a bit.

Ison seems a bolter. I am very keen to see how he progresses. If he can play onball and a bit forward he will be prioritised.
I would be looking for some young midfielders who have been drafted in the last 3-4 years who are highly rated and looking to move. That is if we can't land a high profile one. There is something missing there, not sure how this will go down but it will.

We have some good youth, will be interesting to see those players progress.
 
I’ve said this previously.
But imo, we need to be bold/creative through the middle next season.
If we roll around anywhere close to how we set up this season, then we could be in a bit of trouble.
We’ve now got a lot more players that can get through that part of the ground.
Let’s see what the coaches can come up with ?
 
gbatman said:
He's a RFA. Any way we do it would involve a trade and it would be the calibre of the Curnow trade. See where we are at at year's end.
Click to expand...
I know that Butters is regarded as the next best thing but why would we be concentrating on spending so much capital on a Mid and not a Forward to assist Harry or supplant Harry later.
 
Soapy V said:
I said it start of last year but midfield mix is a major issue for me. The fact people list the Jagga Smith injury as a reason we struggled last year highlights this. Kid hasn’t played 1 game.
Click to expand...

I never get excited about draftees until they prove themselves at senior level.

But I have heard recently (2nd hand) that the club is super pumped with how Smith is looking and that they have massive wraps on him (more than just usual pick 3 stuff).
 

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BluStreak said:
I know that Butters is regarded as the next best thing but why would we be concentrating on spending so much capital on a Mid and not a Forward to assist Harry or supplant Harry later.
Click to expand...
Because I don't think the need for another tall forward is that high. We have a gun colman medalist tall forward, a good up and comer forward ruck in O'Keeffe and we now have a group of medium/small forwards in Ainsworth, Kemp, Hayward, Moir, Byrne, Motlop etc. Teams have won flags with less up forward. We have what is needed to assist Harry. I think we need to be keeping an eye out for a young key forward who can develop and come in and out when needed. If O'Keeffe is a complete failure then sure, we need to find someone, but I don't see that being the case.

What we have in the middle is a slow and immobile midfield that struggles with the loose ball and the ball when in opposition hands and offers little run and carry. Teams aren't winning flags with this and this is our greatest issue. We have one quick mid in Walsh who teams put effort into keeping quiet, the rest can be defended with general structure and pace and agility around the footy. What we need more than any other need is to fix this. We aren't winning a flag if the key to taking down Carlton is to get the ball out in space and to block Walsh so he doesn't get a run at it. We need another player in there who is like Walsh pace wise, who takes opposition attention and is good quality.

Our forward line and defence will flourish if we can add enough pace and agility in there where our pressure is elite and we don't get run rings around and where we can offer some run and carry when going forward.
 
ferrisb said:
I never get excited about draftees until they prove themselves at senior level.

But I have heard recently (2nd hand) that the club is super pumped with how Smith is looking and that they have massive wraps on him (more than just usual pick 3 stuff)
Click to expand...
One thing i find interesting is the amount of kids that win the TAC cup / NAB/Coates league B&F that do not fire a serious shot at AFL level. Very consistent anomaly. Punctuated by the odd one that continues on said trajectory. Biggest kid wins probably still quite prevalent at that point, but conversion should still be higher you would think.
TAC Cup
025Brodie AtkinsGippsland Power
2024Xavier LindsayGippsland Power
2023Patrick Hughes
Colby McKercher		Geelong Falcons
Tasmania Devils
2022Taj Campbell-Farrell
Lachlan Cowan		Dandenong Stingrays
Tasmania Devils
2021Flynn Lakey
Joshua Rentsch		Calder Cannons
GWV Rebels
2020No winner due to COVID-19
2019Lucas RocciWestern Jets
2018Liam StockerSandringham Dragon
2017Jack HigginsOakleigh Chargers
2016Hugh McCluggageNorth Ballarat Rebels
2015​
Clayton Oliver​
 Murray Bushrangers
2014​
Alex Carr​
Gippsland Power​
17​
2013​
George Cameron​
Geelong Falcons​
17​
​
Ben Cavarra​
Eastern Ranges​
17​
​
Jacob Chisari​
Bendigo Pioneers​
17​
​
Josh Scott​
Gippsland Power​
17​
2012​
Nick Graham​
Gippsland Power​
16​
2011​
Alex Benbow​
Dandenong Stingrays​
22​
2010​
Dyson Heppell​
Gippsland Power​
21​
​
Jackson Sketcher​
Sandringham Dragons​
21​
2009​
Anton Woods​
Northern Knights​
24​
2008​
Jarryd Blair​
Gippsland Power​
18​
​
Farran Priest​
Murray Bushrangers​
18​
2007​
Matthew Kreuzer​
Northern Knights​
19​
2006​
Fortunato Caruso​
Calder Cannons​
22​
2005​
Fortunato Caruso​
Calder Cannons​
22​
2004​
Matthew Bate​
Eastern Ranges​
21​
2003​
Mungara Brown​
Northern Knights​
25​
2002​
Luke Shackleton​
Tassie Mariners​
22​
2001​
David Rodan​
Calder Cannons​
29​
2000​
David Rodan​
Calder Cannons​
25​
1999​
Matthew Stolarczyk​
Gippsland Power​
21​
1998​
Lenny Hayes​
NSW/ACT RAMS​
21​
1997​
Derek Murray​
Murray Bushrangers​
20​
1996​
Nathan Brown​
Bendigo Pioneers​
21​
1995​
Paul Hood​
Geelong Falcons​
26​
1994​
Gary Moorcroft​
Northern Knights​
17​
1993​
Dean Watson​
Southern Stingrays​
25​
1992​
Brad Smith​
Northern Knights​
 

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Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

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