Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[Coops93]

FMD this has been said for 10 years

And it's still applicable.

 

[Pablito]

I agree. Especially when it was stated that we want to be defined by pressure last year.

To be honest though, the performances this year were nowhere near as frustrating as last year.

Until that Norf game...

Then bounce back against Pies and looked like we just had a mare against the Roos.

Then the GWS game happened...

I'm glad Cripps got the playing group together without any coaches. I reckon it will have done a world of good.

Don't want to say who, but some of these super talented kids, don't have any brains when it comes to their off field life style...

We shall refer to him as C Curnow..no wait..that's too obvious..let's call said player Charlie C.

 

[Blue and Blue]

So what will satisfy. Should they all start brawls to prove they arent nice ?
Punch ups and suspensions. Does that do the trick?
Maclure is talking from an emotional standpoint with his head in 40 years ago and it doesnt help the club at all.

No team does it. There is a few players that tackle dirty (or go in with the knees on blokes half their size) and thats about it. The game is played 99 percent soft compared to his day and while I loved those days and the toughness of it all todays football is in a different paradigm. All the players are friends or at least workmates (yeah they think its work bless em) and the duty of care is hammered into them and so is the cost of a lapse in discipline. A fight is rare and even when they push each other about they end up laughing.

 

[DangerousD]

I agree. Especially when it was stated that we want to be defined by pressure last year.

To be honest though, the performances this year were nowhere near as frustrating as last year.

Until that Norf game...

Then bounce back against Pies and looked like we just had a mare against the Roos.

Then the GWS game happened...

I'm glad Cripps got the playing group together without any coaches. I reckon it will have done a world of good.

Don't want to say who, but some of these super talented kids, don't have any brains when it comes to their off field life style...

It’s one of the downsides of going so young, that the majority of the list are in the same age, lifestyle and experience demographic.
Easy in hindsight to judge and I’m sure we would do things differently next time.

What I still am unsure on is, is our lack of pressure acts and tackling a result of a coach/game plan that does not prioritise it, or is it from a lack of effort, desire and application?

If it’s the latter, is it an indictment on the coach for not pushing it or enforcing it?

 

[DangerousD]

We shall refer to him as C Curnow..no wait..that's too obvious..let's call said player Charlie C.

I hope you don’t think that said player is the only one who gets loose and on the gear?

 

[DangerousD]

So what will satisfy. Should they all start brawls to prove they arent nice ?
Punch ups and suspensions. Does that do the trick?
Maclure is talking from an emotional standpoint with his head in 40 years ago and it doesnt help the club at all.

No team does it. There is a few players that tackle dirty (or go in with the knees on blokes half their size) and thats about it. The game is played 99 percent soft compared to his day and while I loved those days and the toughness of it all todays football is in a different paradigm. All the players are friends or at least workmates (yeah they think its work bless em) and the duty of care is hammered into them and so is the cost of a lapse in discipline. A fight is rare and even when they push each other about they end up laughing.

I don’t think he want what you are suggesting.

Think back 2 seasons ago, the win against the Hawks when we targeted Sicily, the game against the Swans when we specifically went out to rough up Mills I think. Both games we pushed the boundaries and were called out in the media for the approach, but we made a plan, stuck to it and won.

You don’t have to punch on to have the effect we are after. Even just people getting stuck in to Mummy shoes Murph and the supporters and our players that they care, they are in the fight. A few fines is worth it in this instance.

Our lack of pressure and tackling is plain to see, we are last. Surely this shows something. It’s not good for our club, supporters and Bolton.

I can handle honourable losses but a total lack of effort in some games is hard to handle.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I dont disagree but I think the overlooked factor is that we are younger than ever with no seniors to lead that charge. I dont think its anything more than that and theseyoung fellows will soon start standing their ground and pushing the envelope for the cause.
Like all parts of the game we have to be patient. Thats all there is to it. A waiting game. I saw plenty of good stuff in the 7 games that we were in it.
I think the real problem other than us hating getting thrashed is that far too many people have forgotten the reality of this being a year for developing a very inexperienced group.
I read calls for bringing people in to help the kids. No idea who they are talking about. Its a fantasy. The reserves are just as young.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

******* sick of the media nuffies banging on over the mechanics of our rebuild. SOS cut too hard my backside. Look at the list 2014/2015 and tell me who was cut that shouldn't have been, and who we could have kept to give senior support during the rebuild?
Walker - cooked
Carrazzo - cooked
Judd - cooked
McLean maybe could have stayed a year or two, but would be well and truly cooked now
Robinson - discipline (also not SOS)
Garlett - see Robinson
Waite - MM dismissal
it goes on Bell (home, personal), Ellard, White, Armfield, Buckley, Jaksch, Whiley, Tutt, Boekhorst, DVR, Brad Walsh, Lucas
Marginal credence with conditional Everitt, Hendersook, Graham,
Menzel and Yarran brought us more than they produced subsequent to trade.
Solid player Holman had off field issues at the time, Gowers admits to not giving enough effort during his time with us.
Only leaves Tuohy as a calculated trade we could have kept. Couldn't envisage Doc going down and defensive small/mediums were covered.
….....and Gibbs who wanted out for family reason and brought us plenty of draft options.

We, especially SOS and Bolts are easy marks for the media grandstanders. Free agents wont come, high profile trades almost impossible, getting
McGovern and Setterfield along with Newman was impressive trading.

We are being forced through the rebuild, and there will be peaks and troughs with a young team all but devoid of senior minders and mentors. We will
definitely come out the other side stronger, but this year and possibly next will not be easy. Having said that we have the talent to bring some hurt to
a few other teams. The North game was an aberration, the Collingwood game was a monumental effort that took a toll physically, we then got GWS at
home after an atrocious performance at "the G". Excuse, no, reason, yes.

Hoping like hell the boys got through OK physically (especially Crippa), if they did, look out St Kilda. In the mean time the media can **** off.

Tend to agree although it doesn't particularly worry me if they have an opinion.

What gets up my nose is the smug attitude that people like Caro, Gerard Whateley and Dwayne Russell have and the perverse pleasure they get when it goes wrong for Carlton as though they have been proven right.

They are like the Leader of the Opposition - they don't actually do anything.

None of them have ever had to walk into club and re-build a list, sit down with players and tell them they are being cut, keep tabs on the hundreds of players Australia wide eligible for the draft. They haven't had to coach a young side like this, come up with games plans and styles, motivate and manage people.

Garry Lyon makes a great speech but he's chosen one coach (Dean Bailey) that was a complete failure. Even Mark Maclure - great speeches but perhaps get actively involved and tell us who we should be drafting and trading for next year .

 

[Bluey24]

In hindsight, it kinda looks like SOS did cut the list too hard ....

However, I suspect he took a punt 3-4 years ago with the hope that he'd also be able to trade in a Shiel or Neale, perhaps because of the huge space freed up in our salary cap ... It hasn't worked out that way, but t'was a fair wager

The upshot is additional, unplanned heat on Brendan Bolton

 

[Robertio]

I dont disagree but I think the overlooked factor is that we are younger than ever with no seniors to lead that charge. I dont think its anything more than that and theseyoung fellows will soon start standing their ground and pushing the envelope for the cause.
Like all parts of the game we have to be patient. Thats all there is to it. A waiting game. I saw plenty of good stuff in the 7 games that we were in it.
I think the real problem other than us hating getting thrashed is that far too many people have forgotten the reality of this being a year for developing a very inexperienced group.
I read calls for bringing people in to help the kids. No idea who they are talking about. Its a fantasy. The reserves are just as young.

Has Robbie Muir nominated for the mid season draft?

 

[thylacine60]

They are like the Leader of the Opposition - they don't actually do anything.

None of them have ever had to walk into club and re-build a list, sit down with players and tell them they are being cut, keep tabs on the hundreds of players Australia wide eligible for the draft. They haven't had to coach a young side like this, come up with games plans and styles, motivate and manage people.

the leader of the opposition whether you believe it or not is supposed to keep the government in power accountable - sports journo's arent war correspondents, they don't necessarily file from the battle - we've seen plenty of ex-player 'journos' and how dreadful they have been - further on caro - she has been around football clubs since she was a young girl - you do the research - also, I'm tipping she knows more about onfield stuff than she is given credit for - and as far as club mechanics, committees, boards, staff movements and cloak & dagger stuff, I think she might have the coders in here covered

 

[Blue Pulse]

So what will satisfy. Should they all start brawls to prove they arent nice ?
Punch ups and suspensions. Does that do the trick?
Maclure is talking from an emotional standpoint with his head in 40 years ago and it doesnt help the club at all.

No team does it. There is a few players that tackle dirty (or go in with the knees on blokes half their size) and thats about it. The game is played 99 percent soft compared to his day and while I loved those days and the toughness of it all todays football is in a different paradigm. All the players are friends or at least workmates (yeah they think its work bless em) and the duty of care is hammered into them and so is the cost of a lapse in discipline. A fight is rare and even when they push each other about they end up laughing.

I don't think he is referring to old days, punch ups or suspensions, he is talking about having your team mates back and you don't need to be nasty to do that. I've watched Goddard rag doll Buckley in one of his first games while Carlton players looked on, it is just a matter of standing up for a team mate. Getting players to stand together and get in the face of the opposition is enough to keep bullies at bay as they will soon learn, if I take on one, I have to take them all on.

 

[dlb99]

In hindsight, it kinda looks like SOS did cut the list too hard ....

However, I suspect he took a punt 3-4 years ago with the hope that he'd also be able to trade in a Shiel or Neale, perhaps because of the huge space freed up in our salary cap ... It hasn't worked out that way, but t'was a fair wager

The upshot is additional, unplanned heat on Brendan Bolton

Why would a mature player come here if we are a poor team that gets smashed? They haven't up till now.

That is why the North and GWS games, if continued, will have negative trade/FA consequences.

MC and game plan on Sunday were conducive for a loss, a big loss. Development that leads to smashings have little to no benefit.

Hopefully, the powers that be do the opposite of Sunday for the next critical month.

 

[RedFury]

Not Carlton related, but can I just put it out there how much I love "On the Mark" on fox footy. It's a really underrated show and it's absolutely criminal that these talented woman only get 30 minutes a week for their insightful, interesting, emotional interviews while buffoons like Gerard and Slobbo are handed an hour almost every day for their drivel.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I don't think he is referring to old days, punch ups or suspensions, he is talking about having your team mates back and you don't need to be nasty to do that. I've watched Goddard rag doll Buckley in one of his first games while Carlton players looked on, it is just a matter of standing up for a team mate. Getting players to stand together and get in the face of the opposition is enough to keep bullies at bay as they will soon learn, if I take on one, I have to take them all on.

Yeah maybe. Its not as simple as that though. If only it were.
Pretty sure that stuff would have been talked about in the player only gathering. Be interesting from Docs words to see what happens.
If they come out fired up as he promised will that bring a win?. Time will tell.
Not sure 4 points has ever been awarded based on who wins the fights.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Has Robbie Muir nominated for the mid season draft?

Let's just take Robbie Muir, Ronnie Andrews and David Grainger...they'll sort em' out

 

[thylacine60]

Not Carlton related, but can I just put it out there how much I love "On the Mark" on fox footy. It's a really underrated show and it's absolutely criminal that these talented woman only get 30 minutes a week for their insightful, interesting, emotional interviews while buffoons like Gerard and Slobbo are handed an hour almost every day for their drivel.

couldn't agree more - the episode with walshy was great - so refreshing to see women sports' journos having the space to voice opinions and ask questions rather than be tokenised feeders to the 'real' on camera male talent - and not a 'wag' in sight!..........well done.............

 

[Blue Pulse]

******* sick of the media nuffies banging on over the mechanics of our rebuild. SOS cut too hard my backside. Look at the list 2014/2015 and tell me who was cut that shouldn't have been, and who we could have kept to give senior support during the rebuild?
Walker - cooked
Carrazzo - cooked
Judd - cooked
McLean maybe could have stayed a year or two, but would be well and truly cooked now
Robinson - discipline (also not SOS)
Garlett - see Robinson
Waite - MM dismissal
it goes on Bell (home, personal), Ellard, White, Armfield, Buckley, Jaksch, Whiley, Tutt, Boekhorst, DVR, Brad Walsh, Lucas
Marginal credence with conditional Everitt, Hendersook, Graham,
Menzel and Yarran brought us more than they produced subsequent to trade.
Solid player Holman had off field issues at the time, Gowers admits to not giving enough effort during his time with us.
Only leaves Tuohy as a calculated trade we could have kept. Couldn't envisage Doc going down and defensive small/mediums were covered.
….....and Gibbs who wanted out for family reason and brought us plenty of draft options.

We, especially SOS and Bolts are easy marks for the media grandstanders. Free agents wont come, high profile trades almost impossible, getting
McGovern and Setterfield along with Newman was impressive trading.

We are being forced through the rebuild, and there will be peaks and troughs with a young team all but devoid of senior minders and mentors. We will
definitely come out the other side stronger, but this year and possibly next will not be easy. Having said that we have the talent to bring some hurt to
a few other teams. The North game was an aberration, the Collingwood game was a monumental effort that took a toll physically, we then got GWS at
home after an atrocious performance at "the G". Excuse, no, reason, yes.

Hoping like hell the boys got through OK physically (especially Crippa), if they did, look out St Kilda. In the mean time the media can **** off.

Agree, regarding what SOS had to do, where we have failed with regards to recruiting, is finding seasoned players who can come in and play a consistent roll while developing the kids. O'Shea, Shaw, etc, maybe we should have chased a Miles or Barlow?
Does our recruiting dept have the resources to spot talent out of the WAFL, SANFL, VFL etc? We probably pick up 3-4 mature players a year but we seem to be topping up for our VFL team rather than trying to find someone who can fill a spot in our top side until one of the kids develop and become good enough to replace them.

 

[RedFury]

couldn't agree more - the episode with walshy was great - so refreshing to see women sports' journos having the space to voice opinions and ask questions rather than be tokenised feeders to the 'real' on camera male talent - and not a 'wag' in sight!..........well done.............

And in the same episode .. Travis Varcoe's incredibly moving interview with Neroli regarding the tragic death of his sister playing footy. Not many footy shows would go there ..

 

[thylacine60]

all still available on kayo I think if people are interested............although you do feel if there are any cuts at any time these type of shows will be first to go

 

[Blue Pulse]

Not Carlton related, but can I just put it out there how much I love "On the Mark" on fox footy. It's a really underrated show and it's absolutely criminal that these talented woman only get 30 minutes a week for their insightful, interesting, emotional interviews while buffoons like Gerard and Slobbo are handed an hour almost every day for their drivel.

Toilet paper will always sell because of the amount of S**t produced, serviettes, although nicer and better quality, not so much.

 

[Robertio]

Let's just take Robbie Muir, Ronnie Andrews and David Grainger...they'll sort em' out

And Jacko just because he's an individual.

 

[FRUMPY]

Anyone read Sam Edmund's article in yesterday's Herald Sun?

It was a personal story, noting how he has been a Carlton supporter all his life, then dropped as he became a journalist, then came back once he had a son. Now he is invested in the club as a bond with his son, but is struggling as it is saddening his young son to loss after loss pile up. How it is difficult to keep his son invested in Carlton as we lose, and sometimes badly.

Less news, more emotion.

For those wanting a different perspective, try and find it, it was straight from Sam's heart.

Been trying to get my step kids into footy and follow Carlton. Tough work at the moment when we struggle to get a win. Luckily only 7 and 8 and won't really be into it for a few more years. I know I didn't really like footy till I was about 10 plus. Too busy playing with GI Joe's and mini micro machines

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[FRUMPY]

No actually, he's statistically our third best midfielder for the entire season.

Just goes to show how badly our midfield has been performing really.

You lost me at statistically. Stats are the most overrated thing in the world. He is a shadow of his former self and been terrible basically every game. I've watched games and don't look at stats.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[LFTWNG11]

You and many others think it is a glaring issue, while many others don't. There is no evidence what so ever to suggest there is the perfect size and shape of a team. Dogs won a flag with a smallish setup, while Tigers had a tall backline and WC went with traditional talls at both ends.

But you keep following the crowd

I am not talking in absolutes - for all I know 6 200cm players in the front half could be the formula to win a premiership. I am just going off what I watch every week, which is little to no pressure once the ball hits the deck all over the ground, we are dead last when it comes to pressure acts and typically players that provide those pressure acts are not KPP's.

Keep following the crowd - not sure what you are trying to suggest here, I am just posting my opinion. Maybe you should just talk to other posters on here who enjoy your echo chamber.