Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

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Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2015
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Only said a week ago, yet everything has changed after ONE week and a 2 goal loss. o_O
Stop focusing on the amount we lost by and look at how we played instead.

Will give you a much better perspective on how we're travelling.

If we would have brought that to GWS, Geelong etc. we would've been smashed.
 

Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2015
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You want an outcome without knowing the facts

Sure the club will deal with it appropriately
Judd would know the facts. He said it wasn't good. If there was nothing wrong, he would have dispelled it in a heartbeat.
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
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Stop focusing on the amount we lost by and look at how we played instead.

Will give you a much better perspective on how we're travelling.

If we would have brought that to GWS, Geelong etc. we would've been smashed.
I have many times it was ugly and needs to improve. The fact that we got so close by playing so poorly says a lot to me. JUST MY OPINION
 

Arr0w

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Here yes. You were referring to other coaches. I'm sorry Arrow - its not looking good. I hate it so bad. But its just not.
Again I will reiterate my stance on Bolton

He will neither be the make or break of our rebuild. If the club believes it is time to move on, so be it

Bolton will now be assessed constantly, if we suffer constant beltings, he is gone, if we continue to be competitive and or start winning more games in the backend, then he stays
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
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Again I will reiterate my stance on Bolton

He will neither be the make or break of our rebuild. If the club believes it is time to move on, so be it

Bolton will now be assessed constantly, if we suffer constant beltings, he is gone, if we continue to be competitive and or start winning more games in the backend, then he stays
Agree. Seems to get missed
 

agro

Premiership Player
Jun 7, 2003
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Only said a week ago, yet everything has changed after ONE week and a 2 goal loss. o_O

It’s more like 24 months rather than 12 months - I don’t think the supporters/members let alone the media vultures will have the patience.
 

Blue and Blue

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 29, 2018
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Stop focusing on the amount we lost by and look at how we played instead.

Will give you a much better perspective on how we're travelling.

If we would have brought that to GWS, Geelong etc. we would've been smashed.
Ok.
We played better than them in both style and potential but still managed to blow it with impetuous mistakes. Yes absolutely we have the talent to have taken that game and whipped them plodders. Theres no doubt when our boys get a bit behind they get nervous and thats to be expected but they find ways to lift and go again and got within 5 points playing on two cylinders.
There is the game in a nutshell.

Bloody frustrating thats for sure.

What to do about that is what the argument is all about.
But the final honest reality is that only time will fix it. How long is anyones guess. Go ahead and change the deckchairs around. Won't make a difference to the list and its progress.
 

Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2015
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Again I will reiterate my stance on Bolton

He will neither be the make or break of our rebuild. If the club believes it is time to move on, so be it

Bolton will now be assessed constantly, if we suffer constant beltings, he is gone, if we continue to be competitive and or start winning more games in the backend, then he stays
That's fair enough.

Let me ask you this, last Sunday wasn't a belting. Do you think his coaching will get a pass because of that?

I would suggest that the way we are playing, will be what gets scrutinised unless we start winning.
 

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StandByyourMan

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Feb 1, 2017
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You made them personal. That can't be disputed. Never said everything was fine and things always need to be assessed and adjusted but IMO (THAT IS MY OPINION) to go away from what we started and do things like sack the coach would be madness (JMO)

It's tough at the moment and no one likes it but I can see a future. Get through this tough period by sticking together and we will be so much better for it.
Your response is noted.
 

Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
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Ok.
We played better than them in both style and potential but still managed to blow it with impetuous mistakes. Yes absolutely we have the talent to have taken that game and whipped them plodders. Theres no doubt when our boys get a bit behind they get nervous and thats to be expected but they find ways to lift and go again and got within 5 points playing on two cylinders.
There is the game in a nutshell.

Bloody frustrating thats for sure.

What to do about that is what the argument is all about.
But the final honest reality is that only time will fix it. How long is anyones guess. Go ahead and change the deckchairs around. Won't make a difference to the list and its progress.
I disagree.

They had more contested possessions, more than twice as many marks inside 50 despite having far less talented key forwards and that's because they used the ball better than we did.

From about half way through the 1st quarter till half way through the third, they dominated us in general play, only we did well to take a couple of chances in that second quarter against the flow.
 

Blue_Fusion

Norm Smith Medallist
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This gets said a lot, but I disagree. Surely it is a coaching issue, is someone is doing something technically wrong you don't just say "ah well, he's a bad kick. We'll live with it", you coach them to fix the dodgy technique.

The fact we've consistently had poor skills does fall on the coaches. If it was a an off game here and there then yeah, they had an off day, can't blame the coaches. But we have bad skills week after week, year after year, with no obvious resolution on the horizon. That to me definitely falls on the coaches.
Looks to me like we're not doing enough training drills where players need to make decisions under pressure.
 

HARKER

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The coaches aren't to blame for players being second to the ball all game, being flat-footed when opponents are showing them that constant movement creates opportunities, slipping tackles, and handballing at teammates' feet.

The players own this.
And how exactly do all the players own this?

Did we recruit the wrong players, have we a poor culture and poor leadership or have we poor coaching?
Heat has to be put on players but one can't not dig a little further and ask how and why the players are playing the way they are.

We're all bemoaning not having players in the 24 -28 age bracket, but we just got rid off Kerridge, Lamb, Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw and Graham.
It's not just the age that counts, which really should be quite obvious and you won't just find these players now, because you've seen the error of your ways.
 

Blue and Blue

Norm Smith Medallist
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I disagree.

They had more contested possessions, more than twice as many marks inside 50 despite having far less talented key forwards and that's because they used the ball better than we did.

From about half way through the 1st quarter till half way through the third, they dominated us in general play, only we did well to take a couple of chances in that second quarter against the flow.
Thats ok to disagree its what we do. I see things in the way I do. I didnt see domination at all except in the sense of bigger bodies. But never ever did they look a premiership capable mob, but at times we do.
 

Blue and Blue

Norm Smith Medallist
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And how exactly do all the players own this?

Did we recruit the wrong players, have we a poor culture and poor leadership or have we poor coaching?
Heat has to be put on players but one can't not dig a little further and ask how and why the players are playing the way they are.

We're all bemoaning not having players in the 24 -28 age bracket, but we just got rid off Kerridge, Lamb, Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw and Graham.
It's not just the age that counts, which really should be quite obvious and you won't just find these players now, because you've seen the error of your ways.
Hmmmmm. Seems to me that they are playing exactly as most people predicted before the season began. So the question should be. Why the heat?
 

Arr0w

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That's fair enough.

Let me ask you this, last Sunday wasn't a belting. Do you think his coaching will get a pass because of that?


I would suggest that the way we are playing, will be what gets scrutinised unless we start winning.
Coaches and players don't get pass marks just because they had a close loss

If he and the rest of the coaches are not sticking to the agreed strategy, gameplan and tactics, the questions still need to be asked no matter the result
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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And how exactly do all the players own this?

Did we recruit the wrong players, have we a poor culture and poor leadership or have we poor coaching?
Heat has to be put on players but one can't not dig a little further and ask how and why the players are playing the way they are.

We're all bemoaning not having players in the 24 -28 age bracket, but we just got rid off Kerridge, Lamb, Mullett, O'Shea, Shaw and Graham.
It's not just the age that counts, which really should be quite obvious and you won't just find these players now, because you've seen the error of your ways.
Any process is less than perfect in my experience anyway.

So in answer to your fair questions my response would be.

We recruited some 'wrong players' some players the Club is trying to improve culture ( always) and I would say that previous 'leadership' has been improved upon. As for coaching - Bolton is like any first time coach - learning on the job - so I would expect him to make some mistakes sometimes - which is all part of learning on the job.

I would say that Mullett/O'Shea/Shaw were examples of recruiting that didn't work out as far as AFL emergencies go - but perhaps they weren't really recruited to be AFL players in the first place. In the cases of Lamb Kerridge and Graham - the club gave them plenty of opportunity and for whatever reasons - decided that the Club would be better off without them on the list - some might debate the club's decision on any of the three right now - especially in the context of more developed bodies in midfield. No doubt it is hard to give a developing player a rest or send them back to VFL for some work - if there aren't any replacements.
 

HARKER

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Any process is less than perfect in my experience anyway.

So in answer to your fair questions my response would be.

We recruited some 'wrong players' some players the Club is trying to improve culture ( always) and I would say that previous 'leadership' has been improved upon. As for coaching - Bolton is like any first time coach - learning on the job - so I would expect him to make some mistakes sometimes - which is all part of learning on the job.

I would say that Mullett/O'Shea/Shaw were examples of recruiting that didn't work out as far as AFL emergencies go - but perhaps they weren't really recruited to be AFL players in the first place. In the cases of Lamb Kerridge and Graham - the club gave them plenty of opportunity and for whatever reasons - decided that the Club would be better off without them on the list - some might debate the club's decision on any of the three right now - especially in the context of more developed bodies in midfield. No doubt it is hard to give a developing player a rest or send them back to VFL for some work - if there aren't any replacements.
As I've put forward elsewhere, it's hard not to ask the question; How come so many good players are currently performing so poorly.
It's with some reluctance now, but I still do see a lot of quality at the club, but little cohesion on-field, little confidence and with compounding losses, maybe even diminished desire.
How many young players have we fairly expected to see more from this year, but not to be to date? Dow, Fisher, CCurnow, SPS, Kennedy, Setterfield, O'Brien and more. How has this come about and/or allowed to come about?

It's easy to blame the coach and I understand people doing so, but what's really going on at the club that just about all and sundry look to be in a state of shock and disbelief as to what's opening up as the season goes on?

As for players 24-28? We'll certainly have to get better at attracting the right players to the club via lower picks, FA's and even rookie drafts.
Probably put that forward too many times now to warrant making a stand on it, again...
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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As I've put forward elsewhere, it's hard not to ask the question; How come so many good players are currently performing so poorly.
It's with some reluctance now, but I still do see a lot of quality at the club, but little cohesion on-field, little confidence and with compounding losses, maybe even diminished desire.
How many young players have we fairly expected to see more from this year, but not to be to date? Dow, Fisher, CCurnow, SPS, Kennedy, Setterfield, O'Brien and more. How has this come about and/or allowed to come about?

It's easy to blame the coach and I understand people doing so, but what's really going on at the club that just about all and sundry look to be in a state of shock and disbelief as to what's opening up as the season goes on?

As for players 24-28? We'll certainly have to get better at attracting the right players to the club via lower picks, FA's and even rookie drafts.
Probably put that forward too many times now to warrant making a stand on it, again...
I don't suspect any off field issue tbh...sure there would be pressure being felt around the place and the kids would be getting sick of losing - they aren't living in a bubble - they would know and feel that the coach and coaches are under pressure...

Something NQR about how we move the ball in my mind- doesn't inspire confidence at all. Haven't really understood what Bolton is trying to do and I don't like how easy it is for any opposition to strangle our ball movement and also escape from contested areas.

Easy to speculate and make up all kinds of stories from not much real information.

One thing that stood out for me in telecast was Cripps pretty much shoving Barker aside at quarter time and taking over huddle of mids. It might be that Bolton needs better assistance. Well tbh - I decided that 2 years ago - the coaching/game plan side of things is an open question. Barker whispering into Bolton's ear during matches is not confidence inducing - don't know why I say it - just a feeling.
 
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