Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

Discussion in 'Carlton' started by The Old Dark Navy's, Aug 19, 2014.

Put it out there
  1. Gethelred

    Gethelred Club Legend

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    No, you should most definitely not respect those views!

    You should, however, respect another's right to say them, if only so you can condemn the words that are spoken. Discrimination left unspoken is far more insidious than when given air, and far harder to prevent or change.
     

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  2. Warsaw

    Warsaw Leviathan

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    Playing the 'personal choice' just doesn't sit well, when the other choice is a rejection of equality.

    Word a statement that's unequivocal in the club's position for it, that's it. Don't tip toe around this vote being a choice. If that angers some people, to the point where they reject the Carlton Football Club, then I'm not sure those are the fans we want to attract in the first place.
     
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  3. Jabba73

    Jabba73 Brownlow Medallist

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    upload_2017-9-21_23-39-9.png
     
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  4. mediumsizered

    mediumsizered Premium Platinum

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    I see some Carlton Football Club members are not going to renew their membership because of the club's statement re: the SSM postal plebiscite.

    This suggests to me that these supporters have been looking for an excuse to abandon our club & yesterday's statement is their out. I sincerely hope these supporters don't see fit to jump back on board when we are playing finals & challenging for the premiership.
     
  5. fnm_just a man

    fnm_just a man Club Legend

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    What a strange thing to say. I would suggest that that's a very narrow-minded assessment of the situation which shows arrogance, ignorance, disrespect and a total lack of empathy for those who hold this issue close to their heart. A lot to achieve in so few words... You could be right of course.. but your suggestion being that they are looking to "abandon" the club and that the current situation provides the perfect opportunity implies that you think they actually want to abandon due to on-field performance. Given that we currently have the best list we've had in 15 years, that would be strange behaviour indeed....

    I'm assuming you don't know the personal circumstances of the people you are choosing to criticise, but it's possible they see the situation in reverse - rather than abandoning the club, perhaps they feel the club has abandoned them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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  6. Monkey King

    Monkey King Brownlow Medallist

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    The very act of putting this question to a vote shows that people of the same sex wishing to marry are not being treated equally.

    The real questions are, do two consenting adults hold the right to have their marriage recognised by law; and do people of any gender hold the right to not be discriminated based on their gender? If these tenets are held true, then the gender of the couple isn't even a consideration, they're simply entitled, as a couple, to the basic rights all people seek for themselves. That is equality.
     
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  7. Canyouhearthedrums

    Canyouhearthedrums Premiership Player

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    There is not a person active in this space who doesn't think the idea of the vote is insulting and disgusting. But the community it actually affects has decided to embrace the campaign and win the thing, with very few exceptions.

    If you're a member of the gay community, I respect your right to abstain. If you're not, then stop acting like a third year philosphy student and support those that need it. On the whole, they've made a choice to engage with this bullshit and get it done. You should respect that.
     
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  8. Monkey King

    Monkey King Brownlow Medallist

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    Why should it matter whether I am a member of the gay community or not? Incidentally, this is the version of equality I'm requested to participate in by voting; and I don't support it.
     
  9. JustaBattler

    JustaBattler Brownlow Medallist

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    No one is voting there is no 'vote' this is an exercise in getting 'harder, more detailed and officially sanctioned' rather outsourced private market research data like, - off the top of my head:

    Demographics/Yes/No/No Participation/geography/socio economics etc etc - it is all about having enough information for the political parties to be able to 'parse' the potential cost benefit to them of adopting whatever the next kick the can down the road steps will be in terms of firstly election collateral and secondly economic implications.

    The information will be a valuable set of data as any base level of analysis will have multiple application for all sorts of marketing purposes as well.

    An interesting discussion ( not for this forum obviously) might be parsing the statistical information into implications regarding the different approaches to the issue that different politicians will be forced to make due to their electorates specific results versus Party wide policies - which clearly to date have not been able to get clear majority support.

    In broad terms say 60% who did fill in the poll say yes it would probably not in itself be enough to force Parliamentary response NOR could anyone say that this 60% in itself meant anything. From a stats perspective I firstly would be interested in how many people DIDN'T complete poll - these would define the size of the potential swing group but also the size of the probable NO group to be added to.

    The whole issue in political terms is NOT about equity or other imagined fairy story 'beliefs' - it is and will always be about the politics and the politics of the issue are obviously complicated.

    I doubt very much that the Labor Party would dare to go to a Federal Election with SSM as its center piece policy.
     
  10. Jimmae

    Jimmae Norm Smith Medallist

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    Bitter pill was swallowed, it seems:





    Forward those thoughts onto Tony Shaw. :thumbsu:
     
  11. Canyouhearthedrums

    Canyouhearthedrums Premiership Player

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    I can assure you they will and the LNP will lose the next election if SSM hasn't already been passed. Which is exactly why it's the centrepiece of Abbotts scorched earth rebellion
     

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  12. HARKER

    HARKER Hall of Famer

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    What really pisses me off is that a Government would have understood that there'd be heat and division for this postal vote that ultimately had no say in the final outcome, but chose to push through with it at the cost of 120mil+

    So, what else is to be gained for it? What's the thinking and are they still laughing?
     
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  13. Jabba73

    Jabba73 Brownlow Medallist

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    All part of the plan to fracture any support for the idea.

    Rules for killing support:
    1. Talk up division prior to doing anything
    2. Set an impossibly high target to reach, or ambiguous wording of the proposal
    3. Distract as much as possible with extreme examples of consequences
    4. Change the format several times while blaming everyone else for not following through on your original promises
    5. Drag out the process for as long as possible while encouraging the fringes to get involved
    6. Accept no blame for anything that happens during the process
    7. Make the process as expensive and convoluted as possible to create apathy in the non-believers/neutrals
    8. Leave room to ignore the result if it is not what you wanted
    9. Get as many people as possible to get on social media/news sites and claim they would support it except for ......... so now I won't

    The conspiracy theorist in me has a sneaking suspicion that some of the death threats, extreme behaviours etc. to No Campaigners are either made up or coming from their own side to discredit the Yes Campaigners.

    Whoever dreamed up this process to reluctantly follow through on the promise to do something will be very pleased with themselves.
     
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  14. mediumsizered

    mediumsizered Premium Platinum

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    That's a great little rant, dripping with the arrogance of someone who believes they have the right to determine which is the right side of any given debate.

    Anyone who decides that because the Carlton Football Club has taken a neutral stance on SSM that this justifies cancelling their membership, does not truly value their membership & our club is better off without them.

    The Carlton Football Club has 50k members, who come from various walks of life, various ethnic backgrounds & various beliefs/opinions. it would be wrong of the club to adopt a stance on one side of an issue, when it would know that its members would have contrasting opinions on such an issue. I think the club have demonstrated great maturity in not taking a parochial stance on an issue which is far greater than football, football clubs or the AFL.
     
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  15. ODNBlue

    ODNBlue Norm Smith Medallist

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    It's been claimed that the club shouldn't be getting involved in this considering some of it's members will be voting no. Problem with this position is that there are many Christians who disagree with the position of their churches, both ways, on this issue... so if the church can have an opinion when not every one of their members agrees, then surely the CFC can.

    And considering the increased proportion of gay players now playing under the CFC banner, is it not beholden to the club to support equal rights for it's players? Are equal rights for players of the Carlton Football Club not more important than the opinions of it's members?

    I would have prefered less equivocation in the club's statement, especially as one of the founding members of the AFLW.
     
  16. fnm_just a man

    fnm_just a man Club Legend

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    Way to miss the point!

    Second para is much the same as your first statement - the arrogance of feeling that you have the right to evaluate how much this issue should affect people.

    Cheers to you.
     
  17. happydude

    happydude Norm Smith Medallist

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    I was hoping that the club and afl would make it through the last 50 days without this.

    No matter what the club said there would be backlash, they don't need to say anything but tried to get to it before being pressured.

    Just vote for what you believe, I have a feeling the government isn't going to take any action anyway.
     
  18. mediumsizered

    mediumsizered Premium Platinum

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    I will just finish by saying I am proud of the Carlton Football Club because they have not been drawn into an issue which was always going to be polarising. What a fantastic club we have. What a shame some are choosing not to be part of this wonderful club.
     
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  19. ferrisb

    ferrisb Norm Smith Medallist

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    I reckon baby Lances were just trolling, thinking 'watch as I take the piss out of the situation'.

    Chips off the old block, really... :D
     
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  20. MEB_

    MEB_ Mumma Mebbie

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    There's a thread on GD full of Lance Jnrs escapades. Kid sounds hilarious.
     
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  21. ferrisb

    ferrisb Norm Smith Medallist

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    If only there was some kind of baby mod that could point me in the right direction....
     
  22. ijaxcat

    ijaxcat Team Captain

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    Absolutely right. Whether people like it or not this is a political question and the AFL and it's clubs have no place declaring there hand
    either way. The response from CFC is the only sensible,logical one to take.
    I have been a Geelong supporter since the sixties and in the last couple of years the Blues have been my second side.
    As of 2018 the Blues are my first side!!
     
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  23. Jabba73

    Jabba73 Brownlow Medallist

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    This has been made into a political question.

    It should not be.
     
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  24. ShanDog

    ShanDog Brownlow Medallist

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    Which makes getting stroppy about a football club's position even sillier.
     
  25. MEB_

    MEB_ Mumma Mebbie

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