Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[HARKER]

I have no doubt that you have some facinating insights into Carlton's boardroom machinations, but I think it's unfair to tar all of the board members with the same brush. Being a director on the Carlton board is an unpaid position and they have to spend a considerable amount of time endeavouring to make the club a stronger and more competitive organisation. Some are no doubt better at this than others.

Let's call a spade a spade. If you have a beef with the football department let's call out Gleeson or Judd for any failing rather than lumping them all into the same basket. If you have in issue with the goverance or culture at the club then let's take the Pres to task for it. I think this might actually be quite constructive.

It's would certainly be more constructive than blaming the 'board' for this or the 'board' for that. If you're worried about any legal ramifications for calling out individuals, start each sentence with 'allegedly'.

It's unfair discussing this in a Steven Silvagni thread, but I guarantee you, there will be more discussion in regards to our operation.

Maybe Caro just cut and pasted pieces for her article from our previous exploits and just changed the names, but the song sounds the same to me.
I think I've already spelled out what that may mean and I did use the term culture, but you can accompany that with ego, greed and power and a picture may start to form. I'm sorry for the way we've dealt with so many our previous employees and if it was you being treated like crap, I'd support you too.

Sometimes one has to stand up and admit; 'Maybe I'm the problem' instead of blaming everyone else. Just a thought.

 

[My name geoff]

Having worked for former wealthy Carlton board member, I would not be surprised to hear of outrageous incompetence at board level.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Who needs to stand up?

MLG wasn't in charge for Pagan, Ratten or Hughes and they are used to pad out the argument.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Having worked for former wealthy Carlton board member, I would not be surprised to hear of outrageous incompetence at board level.

Who is still there that would hold responsibility for the failure of staff dating back to Pagan?

 

[sosos]

Harker, I appreciate your opinion, but to me it comes across as pedantic.

Though some current board members are the same ones who were part of previous boards who performed poorly, it is not particularly relevant when discussing the performance of thise current board.

Trigg has said something to Wilson. Wilson has pushed off from the sightboard like a belligerent Australian fast bowler when the probable reality is most likely far less sinister.

Lets not over-egg this pavlova.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Who is still there that would hold responsibility for the failure of staff dating back to Pagan?

According to the Blueseum......unknown.

Dead set, we have a 20 year void of committee members from ‘87 through 2009.

Anyhoo, back to Jeff Beck.

 

[HARKER]

Harker, I appreciate your opinion, but to me it comes across as pedantic.

Though some current board members are the same ones who were part of previous boards who performed poorly, it is not particularly relevant when discussing the performance of thise current board.

Trigg has said something to Wilson. Wilson has pushed off from the sightboard like a belligerent Australian fast bowler when the probable reality is most likely far less sinister.

Lets not over-egg this pavlova.

I could be way off the mark, but I also wouldn't take into account any insiders that may 'choose' to portray a better picture.
The reasons should be obvious for that.

We just 'seemingly' have a culture of ******* around the people we've put into positions of gravity and trust.
I don't like that, but I can understand some may enjoy the power-play involved.

Let's pick-up this discussion when Kate Jenkins becomes our President.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

I have no doubt that you have some facinating insights into Carlton's boardroom machinations, but I think it's unfair to tar all of the board members with the same brush. Being a director on the Carlton board is an unpaid position and they have to spend a considerable amount of time endeavouring to make the club a stronger and more competitive organisation. Some are no doubt better at this than others.

Let's call a spade a spade. If you have a beef with the football department let's call out Gleeson or Judd for any failing rather than lumping them all into the same basket. If you have in issue with the goverance or culture at the club then let's take the Pres to task for it. I think this might actually be quite constructive.

It's would certainly be more constructive than blaming the 'board' for this or the 'board' for that. If you're worried about any legal ramifications for calling out individuals, start each sentence with 'allegedly'.

It is not as simple as this. I agree not all board members in our recent past are all equally culpable, but all must wear some of the egg and take responsibility as a group for our failings. It has been a disaster period until our most recent president.

And remember we are talking about our past here. Prime example being Kernahan/Board/Malthouse. This deal was done behind closed doors without proper due diligence.

Kernahan was a great footballer for us but a ******* as a president. Bringing Malthouse in was just plain stupid (then and now in review). I just groaned out loud when that happened at the time and thought, * me Kernahan, you *******. Killing us he was. The board is implicated here and Kernahan the figurehead.

So you cant just look at football matters and blame Malthouse for poor footballing performance. You cant just blame the board for culture. It is all linked.

You have to dig deeper and look at the board who stupidly put Malthouse there in the first place. They signed off on a football operations team that kept Wayne Hughes and Rogers on way too long. And in marketing...remember the slogan 'can you smell what we are cooking'. *******s. Our list was shambolic, our coach appointed, just poor. It was a joke! That all comes from the board leading! Kernahan truly had faith in our boys this whole time I think. He just wasn't astute enough to see reality and 'implement change required'. The opposite of this is Dunstall years ago at Hawthorn. He made hard changes and sometimes brutal changes that led to the Hawks success.

Our board members presided for years while Hughes and rogers recruited skinny flanker undersize utility types, or completely useless talls (they simply lacked talent spotting skills). The board's job is to look at the key indicators of a footy club and make hard decisions. The board had to identify it somewhere through a period numbering more than ten years with WHs....but couldn't! Like us supporters they just sat there in a trance hoping Wayne Hughes would pluck a good player at the next draft.

Every footy club indicator was alarming during this time. Our board ineffective.

During that 10-14 year period the only thing I liked was Ratten's apt along with A Mckay. I think the board made another stupid assessment and thought our list was ready to take the next step and Ratten wasn't. * me dead. Go back and see the players Ratten had to work with. Clarkson only deals with winners and snapped him up immediately to our loss. Thank you Kernahan and the board for your great insight and leadership (twits!!). The only negative thing I can think of about Ratten was continually playing A Joseph. For some reason he had a weak spot for that player who just wasn't up to it. Aside from that he had us playing above our list position.

So like Harks said, it is intertwined. Only under the current president who has brought in quality people could you make the statement of pointing the finger at the right team/dept. All developed under the current board. Might be luck, might be intentioned but thank christ it has happened.

Go blues!

SoS
Bolton
Mckay
Judd

Smart decent people. That is behind our future push. Love it! Board has to get kudos for that.

 

[Nori]

...

Sometimes one has to stand up and admit; 'Maybe I'm the problem' instead of blaming everyone else. Just a thought.

Well if MLG is the problem then Juddy and Kate Jenkins are the solution. To me that's a sign of the board working, not evidence of board disfunctionality.

I personally don't have an issue with the way Trigg was treated, or Lethlean, or Rogers for that matter. I think it's important to get the right people in the right positions and normally that means being proactive and if some feelings get hurt along the way then that just goes with the territory. MLG made a good appointment in Trigg and hopefully he has made a better appointment in Liddle. He needs to be actively involved in these decisions because ultimately it's his responsibility to ensure that Carlton has an excellent CEO.

Having said that (to borrow from SOS), MLG has copped a fair bit of flack in the media over his handling of the CEO appointment so parachuting replacements into positions that are not vacant is probably a strategy that he should avoid from now on.

 

[Bluella]

How many of the posters here are held personally accountable for the decisions of their predecessors? I'm not talking about blaming the company, I'm talking about being personally blamed for what the last person did?

Can we at least wait until the current lot eff up before blaming them for stuff? Don't like how the Trigg change happened. Other than that, I think they are (broadly) doing a pretty good job in digging us out of the s**t THE LAST LOT put us in.

 

[JustaBattler]

I'd just like to say that Fish don't actually rot from the head - bacteria doesn't have a bias.

 

[agro]

And Fish “Sticks” just plain rot.

 

[Toddski]

It is not as simple as this. I agree not all board members in our recent past are all equally culpable, but all must wear some of the egg and take responsibility as a group for our failings. It has been a disaster period until our most recent president.

And remember we are talking about our past here. Prime example being Kernahan/Board/Malthouse. This deal was done behind closed doors without proper due diligence.

Kernahan was a great footballer for us but a ******* as a president. Bringing Malthouse in was just plain stupid (then and now in review). I just groaned out loud when that happened at the time and thought, **** me Kernahan, you *******. Killing us he was. The board is implicated here and Kernahan the figurehead.

So you cant just look at football matters and blame Malthouse for poor footballing performance. You cant just blame the board for culture. It is all linked.

You have to dig deeper and look at the board who stupidly put Malthouse there in the first place. They signed off on a football operations team that kept Wayne Hughes and Rogers on way too long. And in marketing...remember the slogan 'can you smell what we are cooking'. *******s. Our list was shambolic, our coach appointed, just poor. It was a joke! That all comes from the board leading! Kernahan truly had faith in our boys this whole time I think. He just wasn't astute enough to see reality and 'implement change required'. The opposite of this is Dunstall years ago at Hawthorn. He made hard changes and sometimes brutal changes that led to the Hawks success.

Our board members presided for years while Hughes and rogers recruited skinny flanker undersize utility types, or completely useless talls (they simply lacked talent spotting skills). The board's job is to look at the key indicators of a footy club and make hard decisions. The board had to identify it somewhere through a period numbering more than ten years with WHs....but couldn't! Like us supporters they just sat there in a trance hoping Wayne Hughes would pluck a good player at the next draft.

Every footy club indicator was alarming during this time. Our board ineffective.

During that 10-14 year period the only thing I liked was Ratten's apt along with A Mckay. I think the board made another stupid assessment and thought our list was ready to take the next step and Ratten wasn't. **** me dead. Go back and see the players Ratten had to work with. Clarkson only deals with winners and snapped him up immediately to our loss. Thank you Kernahan and the board for your great insight and leadership (twits!!). The only negative thing I can think of about Ratten was continually playing A Joseph. For some reason he had a weak spot for that player who just wasn't up to it. Aside from that he had us playing above our list position.

So like Harks said, it is intertwined. Only under the current president who has brought in quality people could you make the statement of pointing the finger at the right team/dept. All developed under the current board. Might be luck, might be intentioned but thank christ it has happened.

Go blues!

SoS
Bolton
Mckay
Judd

Smart decent people. That is behind our future push. Love it! Board has to get kudos for that.

Garbage. Ratten had a great list and underperformed. Move on.

 

[mrjones]

Who else is drinking until the World Cup draw? About to crack a bottle of Sailor Jerry so Mods if thee are any posts from mrjones after 12:30 it wasn't me it was Jerry.
Thanks thor whistling!

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Garbage. Ratten had a great list and underperformed. Move on.

lol.. Research first. 2009s list included the following AFL stars

s**t, under average or too young:
Cameron Cloke, Setanta O'Hailpin, Bentick, Warnock, Steven Browne, P Bower, R Okeefe, Mark Austin, Armfield, Jordan Banister, Simon Wiggins, Jordan Russell, Sean Hampson, Fisher, R houlahan, Grigg (kid), Richard Hadley, M Robinson (kid), C Yarran, Adam Hartlett, Joe Anderson, Chris Johnson, Aaron Joseph, and Jake Edwards,

Average by AFL standards
Jamieson, Thornton, Carrots

Injured young: Kruezer
Always injured: Waite

Good: Walker, Fev, N Stevens, Murph, Gibbs, Simpson, Betts


Elite: Judd

Just keep reading the names of that first list that number 20+ players. Can't win much with 7/8 good players on the park each season. Wayne Hughes said to say thanks Toddski!

 

[Michael Jezz]

Pagan failed us, Ratten failed us, Malthouse failed us...
Hughes failed us, Williams failed us (didn't even last a moment) Rogers failed us...
Swann failed us, Trigg failed us...

We are just so unlucky with appointments made directly by our unlucky board. So unlucky.

Trigg didnt fail us. He walked into nothing...no systems....no processes and has steadied the ship for some one more entrepreneurial

 

[Soapy V]

It is not as simple as this. I agree not all board members in our recent past are all equally culpable, but all must wear some of the egg and take responsibility as a group for our failings. It has been a disaster period until our most recent president.

And remember we are talking about our past here. Prime example being Kernahan/Board/Malthouse. This deal was done behind closed doors without proper due diligence.

Kernahan was a great footballer for us but a ******* as a president. Bringing Malthouse in was just plain stupid (then and now in review). I just groaned out loud when that happened at the time and thought, **** me Kernahan, you *******. Killing us he was. The board is implicated here and Kernahan the figurehead.

So you cant just look at football matters and blame Malthouse for poor footballing performance. You cant just blame the board for culture. It is all linked.

You have to dig deeper and look at the board who stupidly put Malthouse there in the first place. They signed off on a football operations team that kept Wayne Hughes and Rogers on way too long. And in marketing...remember the slogan 'can you smell what we are cooking'. *******s. Our list was shambolic, our coach appointed, just poor. It was a joke! That all comes from the board leading! Kernahan truly had faith in our boys this whole time I think. He just wasn't astute enough to see reality and 'implement change required'. The opposite of this is Dunstall years ago at Hawthorn. He made hard changes and sometimes brutal changes that led to the Hawks success.

Our board members presided for years while Hughes and rogers recruited skinny flanker undersize utility types, or completely useless talls (they simply lacked talent spotting skills). The board's job is to look at the key indicators of a footy club and make hard decisions. The board had to identify it somewhere through a period numbering more than ten years with WHs....but couldn't! Like us supporters they just sat there in a trance hoping Wayne Hughes would pluck a good player at the next draft.

Every footy club indicator was alarming during this time. Our board ineffective.

During that 10-14 year period the only thing I liked was Ratten's apt along with A Mckay. I think the board made another stupid assessment and thought our list was ready to take the next step and Ratten wasn't. **** me dead. Go back and see the players Ratten had to work with. Clarkson only deals with winners and snapped him up immediately to our loss. Thank you Kernahan and the board for your great insight and leadership (twits!!). The only negative thing I can think of about Ratten was continually playing A Joseph. For some reason he had a weak spot for that player who just wasn't up to it. Aside from that he had us playing above our list position.

So like Harks said, it is intertwined. Only under the current president who has brought in quality people could you make the statement of pointing the finger at the right team/dept. All developed under the current board. Might be luck, might be intentioned but thank christ it has happened.

Go blues!

SoS
Bolton
Mckay
Judd

Smart decent people. That is behind our future push. Love it! Board has to get kudos for that.

Lost me with McKay. Responsible for some shocking contracts and approval of recruiting that set us back years. If not a former Carlton player he would be gone. A top class director of football is something we lack

 

[agro]

Andrew McKay was responsible for giving Aaron Joseph and Marcus Davies 2 year contracts - might be a decent person and a great past football player - but not astute.

 

[Soapy V]

Andrew McKay was responsible for giving Aaron Joseph and Marcus Davies 2 year contacts - might be a decent person and a great past football player - but not astute.

Waite Thomas etc

 

[Soapy V]

Trigg didnt fail us. He walked into nothing...no systems....no processes and has steadied the ship for some one more entrepreneurial

Thought he did a very good job and improved us in so many areas.

 

[Soapy V]

Garbage. Ratten had a great list and underperformed. Move on.

I thought Ratts did a good job but wasn’t the person to take us to the next level

 

[agro]

Has proven himself to be a good assistant or line coach. Wasnt ready as a senior coach at that time.

He might be ready now, but I think he’s applied for a few senior jobs and been passed over.

 

[Arr0w]

Ratten did very well with an extremely ordinary list

 

[rog1995]

But we have SOS. Our savior!

 

[La Dispute]

Ratten did very well with an extremely ordinary list

And only really work experience at Melbourne, who were as shambolic as we were during that period.

Struck me as a pretty diligent coach, but lacked support and a bit of technical know-how.

We actually had a great Top 10 players between 2009-2011 which would have been a perfect starting point, but due to a myriad of reasons we were utterly cooked when we should have been challenging.